Should I be feeling weird about this?

[WittyUsername123]

Hi all,
We are pre-AO for our two LOs (2 & 3) but paperwork in and all progressing.
Our LOs SW (who is as much use to them as a bicycle is to a fish, generally) showed up a few days ago for a routine visit.
During this, and and completely in front of LOs, he mentioned BM wants to send a huge number of presents, which is ‘up to us’ to agree or refuse? He also mentioned that, although he hasn’t shown her our first settling in letter yet, he’d like us to write an update. He also told us BM wanted direct contact and casually asked our opinion, and then equally casually mentioned a BF had been identified??

I am certainly not against the children getting everything they can to support their lifestories. I am not closed to contact either. But I am feeling odd about it- I guess because he just mentioned it casually and then put it all on our shoulders to decide? Like he even said, “So I’ll tell her she can see them when they’re 18?” And I’m kinda like- well, I mean, I don’t know? What is the court recommending??

Is this normal? How should we be responding?

(I have been on a few threads recently and would like to pre-emptively say that the children came to us due to a plan for adoption which was LEGALLY DECIDED before they ever knew us. Every option, including SGOs, was fully explored and found to be inappropriate for them. If you would like to talk about overhauling the adoption system then I would be keen to discuss that, but not here because that’s not what I’m asking about. Thanks 😊)

I don't think I have any advice (and am sure others will be along soon who do) but wanted to reply just to the title of your thread, really!

Yes, you should be feeling weird about this! It is pretty shocking that your LOs' SW has said these things to you, especially in front of your children!

Surely contact has already been discussed! I am appalled actually! Do you still have a social worker through your adoption agency? Are they any good? If I had been put in this situation I think I would have got my own social worker to handle it, but she was brilliant.

Gosh @WittyUsername123 such a lot has been heaped on you and in front of the children too. To be honest I was thinking WTAF... at the SW...

I guess the question is whether each of these particular things will be in the best interest of the children.

E.g are the presents just random things or sentimental things for when they are older ? E.g in FC my son was given a few things e.g a family figurine and a watch. And then when I met birth family they gave me a Memory Box with first blanket, first outfit, first book etc. This has been discussed with me prior and it means so.much to.my son.

I don't understand why you would need to write an update when you've already done a Settling in Letter. Also any Contact arrangements should have been ironed out way before Placement.

I am rather concerned that birth mum is perhaps making requests that are not appropriate. And that the SW should have had clear conversations with her instead of putting it all on you - emotional blackmail.

The SW should definitely not be encouraging birth mum to think that she'll see them again when they are 18. This is for the children to decide - they have been Removed for very serious reasons.

I hope this helps.

Thank you both- this is validating because I was starting to feel so guilty that I was as bridling against it all. Poor LO3 in particular is very perceptive and it is ridiculous to speak about this stuff in front of him like he doesn’t have ears and a brain? SW has done it before (making very negative comments about BM & BF) and it does make me mad.

The gifts sound like, if I can speak candidly, like a bunch of expensive tat? We already have various gifts, special bears, memory items, cards, etc, some old clothes (although a lot was sadly lost due to some very dramatic circumstances at removal which I won’t go in to). I feel the greatest sympathy for BM, truly I do, but I don’t want her to get the impression this will continue after AO; I am also worried she is in a bad place mentally and is putting herself under financial pressure because she is feeling desperately unhappy.

He also mentioned she’d been asking about our social media etc and he shut her down- but that makes me more concerned she’s perhaps looking for us?

We were given the impression that contact was twice annual letterbox, and I guess I am surprised that it is being casually suggested it might change- it feels like SW doesn’t want to be the bad guy and is expecting us to shut it down? But I have horrors of my children turning around and saying ‘Why didn’t you let us have xyz mummy?’ Y’know? Like I don’t know BM, I don’t know her risks, I was assuming they would advise…

The gifts sound like, if I can speak candidly, like a bunch of expensive tat?

This should have said TOYS- expensive toys. 🫠

Sending you hugs @WittyUsername123

Can you speak to your SW and get them to speak to the children's SW.

In the nicest possible way the presents need nipping in the bud. It sounds like birth mum has already given any sentimental items and goodbye gifts. I think she would expect to send presents continuously. This is not fair on anyone least of all birth mum.

It sounds like she needs a lot of support about what Adoption means and what her role is now in terms of presents and contact.

I feel for her really I do. But everything has to be in the best interests of the children. I can see that they will get incredibly confused by all this esp your 3 year old. There is a very good reason why the vast majority of adoptions don't include the exchange of photos, cards, presents.

X

That seems totally inappropriate to be discussed in front of the children.

Gifts are one thing, and personally a one off gift of expensive items first not seem so bad. Potentially some contact might be good but all this should be discussed away from the kids with their best interests at heart.

So, yes, you are right to feel weird and speak to your social worker.

Good luck.

What a horrible situation for you! Talk to your social worker. They need to make clear to him that none of this is right.

I would be pushing back via your SW with the post adoption contact arrangements agreement that should have been agreed and signed as part of matching and transitions. If this hasn't happened for some reason then the report that you read on the children should have information in it about what post AO contact should look like. If it's not in the agreement, I would be adding no photos/gifts. I'd also be using my SW to push back against updating the settling letter without a guarantee that it will be delivered this time and on the understanding that you agreed time frames for when letters would be sent as part of post contact arrangements.

Whilst it is research shows that direct contact will benefit the children, that is only the case if it is managed with their best interests at its heart. Changes to contact arrangements should not be made at such an emotional time because everyone is feeling sorry for BM.

If you haven't already, I would be tightening your privacy restrictions on all your social media, including considering leaving local Facebook groups if you're a member as these are all public and can be used to track you.

you have every right to speak up and shut down inappropriate conversations in front of the children. Say you are willing to discuss it but not when the children are listening!
Also be v careful that they are not looking to get direct contact written into the Adop.order because then it could be enforced. We do actually offer one direct contact a year as we adopted our foster child and felt it was appropriate but we made sure it was not written into.any court documents and is entirely at our discretion. We therefore have all the power to control it and infact parents having bothered with contact for the last few years now.

Dont be railroaded by the sw. You are the parents and you get to decide what is in your children's interests so stand firm. x

That is helpful advice @flapjackfairy
Just to be clear, we are not at all close-minded to contact; I was just shocked by the way it was raised!

I hate it when people speak like this in front of the kids! Like they cant hear! Its bonkers and always disregulates them! our SW was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, but I too did find it hard how shes always says how brilliantly mum was doing, in front of DD, like, how is that helpful in getting DD to understand us as parents like this, and I personally found it really unhelpful in making our attachment, me and DD, as just had so much guilt, and also fear that AO wouldnt happen. Our SW also asked every time we saw her whether bio mum could send a yearly book (in front of DD), we were ok with it but hasnt ever happened. Maybe suggest something like that, it was apparently a pause thing, to enable connection but not too much stuff, we were worried as a huge pressure on bio mum to choose something appropriate without really knowing, and also knowing what we had etc, seems just like a nice idea that will end up causing unnecessary anxiety and money wasting. hasnt happened in the end.
We too are up for future meet ups, but for now want to focus on family building for permanence and future proofing.

I agree, say stick with things in the original agreement, say will do an update when theres something to update, maybe dont worry about gifts coming now but say maybe save the money for them for future when they want their first car or something? As toys so get aged out? Maybe? or a toy each birthday, make it more meaningful than lots at once?
Maybe also mention to save all this chat for when the kids arent there, hard enough for us to compute let alone wee ones! Easy enough to do by email?

I'd speak to your SW. What the LOs SW did was inappropriate on so many levels. Are they part of the same team?