Adoption order hearing

claireb7rg · 2023-01-22T22:07:42+00:00

We have the kids first court hearing (well not the 1st but first adoption order hearing) tomorrow. Half of me wants the birth parents (well mum, as dad has already 'given his blessing' for them to be happy) to make an appearance and try to fight for them, half of me doesn't and for it to be quick and easy.... Am taking bets on if we actually hear from the kids sw tomoorrow or not....

Remy7 · 22/01/2023 23:25

Ahh such a double edged sword. I'd be feeling the same. Hope all goes well x

Chocapple · 23/01/2023 06:52

Gosh the Court process... so stressful. Birth family sent a short message to the Judge saying they supported the AO and me. Court Hearing lasted 3 minutes and the AO was granted there and then.

Part of me was so relieved and that birth parents had still accepted the child would never be returned. Huge risk of very significant physical harm. The other part felt so sad as my child was the last of the children to be Adopted.

I really hope the kids get their permanency today. It will make such a huge difference to you all. Xx

121Sarah121 · 23/01/2023 09:15

Hope it goes ok and you are supported through the process

Jellycatspyjamas · 23/01/2023 18:07

I hope all went well today and there were no hiccups.

Thedruidandmage · 23/01/2023 18:54

I hope it all went well for you today!
We only recently submitted our own court paperwork so are just at the start of this part and praying it all goes smoothly.

Original poster

claireb7rg · 23/01/2023 19:51

Sadly not the news we were hoping for 😢

From the kids social worker 😢 - I attended the initial Court Hearing today for the children. The Local Authority Solicitor, birth mother and birth mothers new partner also attended this. Birth mother is seeking permission to oppose the adoption orders being granted. There are a number of things that she has been asked to do via the Judge. There are also things that the Local Authority Solicitor and I must action. This will then lead to whether or not birth mother would be given permission to oppose. The next hearing has been booked in for March 2023. Just to add I have made my position clear to the Local Authority Solicitor, that I support the children remaining in placement.

OP posts:

Chocapple · 23/01/2023 20:35

Hi @claireb7rg

This must be incredibly worrying for you. I want to try and reassure you. I have read of only two cases in the last 10 years plus for traditional adoption where the child went back to birth family.

Birth family will have to have done so much to even get permission to oppose. Birth family would then need to show that they have sustained very very very significant changes which have been long lasting. And to show that the children would fare better with birth family who they haven't lived with for a very long time and have been subject to x, y, a in their care. The Judge will need to make sure that he/she has 1000% crossed all the t's and dotted the i's so birth family can not take this any further.

Don't forget that many birth family members say they want to oppose but then dont file the necessary paperwork.

The children's LA should pay for any legal costs that you incurr. I hope the SW's are explaining things to you.

The Adoption Order stage is the final part of the legal process. Birth family will have their paternal rights terminated and it's very difficult for everyone involved.

I know that you have a lot of support here on mumsnet adoption and in other adoption groups.

Take care and hopefully things will be concluded sooner rather than later. Xx

Thedruidandmage · 23/01/2023 20:35

@claireb7rg I'm very sorry that it wasn't the news you hoped for today, and have my fingers crossed that the next date goes smoothly for you.

Original poster

claireb7rg · 23/01/2023 20:42

Chocapple · 23/01/2023 20:35

Hi @claireb7rg

This must be incredibly worrying for you. I want to try and reassure you. I have read of only two cases in the last 10 years plus for traditional adoption where the child went back to birth family.

Birth family will have to have done so much to even get permission to oppose. Birth family would then need to show that they have sustained very very very significant changes which have been long lasting. And to show that the children would fare better with birth family who they haven't lived with for a very long time and have been subject to x, y, a in their care. The Judge will need to make sure that he/she has 1000% crossed all the t's and dotted the i's so birth family can not take this any further.

Don't forget that many birth family members say they want to oppose but then dont file the necessary paperwork.

The children's LA should pay for any legal costs that you incurr. I hope the SW's are explaining things to you.

The Adoption Order stage is the final part of the legal process. Birth family will have their paternal rights terminated and it's very difficult for everyone involved.

I know that you have a lot of support here on mumsnet adoption and in other adoption groups.

Take care and hopefully things will be concluded sooner rather than later. Xx

Thank you 😊

The kids sw is worse than useless (we got that message by email and we haven't been able to get hold of her to ask further questions today). Our sw has been good but it's her day off today so was surprised she even replied. But we've not been told any more than the message from the kids sw.

Our kids have been with us a year, we were ready to submit AO paperwork in July but kids sw dragged it out claiming she was too busy to do her report. Kids haven't seen bm for almost 2 years, haven't lived with her for almost 3

What legal costs are we likely to incur? None of the sw have mentioned us needing a solicitor or what they'd be needed for?

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Jellycatspyjamas · 23/01/2023 20:59

I’m so sorry, as remote as the chance of returning to birth parents may be, it’s uncertainty you don’t need. It’s not remotely good enough for a social worker to delay a court process because they don’t have time for their report, I’d be formally complaining about that. What a nonsense.

Whereabouts are you? I know the Scottish system well but not the rest of the U.K. There will be legal costs relating to further hearings but the local authority should cover these for a contested adoption.

tonyhawks23 · 23/01/2023 21:31

Thinking of you,ours was delayed and delayed but all through paperwork,neither bio parent opposed,but friends of ours had this where they did get to oppose and it went on but all went through fine in the end.its such an awful awful system,I can only think that it's to make us really feel we want it because it so feels like it could all be taken away,just feels so unfair on everyone involved and it definitely needs changing.im sorry you've got it going on and hope it gets resolved quickly.
We didn't need a solicitor the LA used their solicitor for it all so will prob be the case for you,worried me too but was fine.

Original poster

claireb7rg · 23/01/2023 21:51

Jellycatspyjamas · 23/01/2023 20:59

I’m so sorry, as remote as the chance of returning to birth parents may be, it’s uncertainty you don’t need. It’s not remotely good enough for a social worker to delay a court process because they don’t have time for their report, I’d be formally complaining about that. What a nonsense.

Whereabouts are you? I know the Scottish system well but not the rest of the U.K. There will be legal costs relating to further hearings but the local authority should cover these for a contested adoption.

We're England, but thank you. As you say it's uncertainty we didn't need 😢

OP posts:

Original poster

claireb7rg · 23/01/2023 21:57

Jellycatspyjamas · 23/01/2023 20:59

I’m so sorry, as remote as the chance of returning to birth parents may be, it’s uncertainty you don’t need. It’s not remotely good enough for a social worker to delay a court process because they don’t have time for their report, I’d be formally complaining about that. What a nonsense.

Whereabouts are you? I know the Scottish system well but not the rest of the U.K. There will be legal costs relating to further hearings but the local authority should cover these for a contested adoption.

And we have complained. She's the 2nd useless sw they've had. The first caused us to miss a whole terms worth of nursery funding that the IRO successfully got us refunded as well as numerous other issues. I ended up speaking to ofsted about the issues we'd had last March and weeks later the 1st sw disappeared and we got the 2nd.

Fair enough I know sw are busy at the moment with the covid backlog etc but she keep telling us we were not her priority and she didn't have time to do the report. She's been apparently chasing the contact centre for the life story books since September. Every time I speak to her she says she's chased but she'll chase again...

I just want this to be over so we can settle down properly withiut sw visits, LAC health reviews, PEP meetings etc etc 😢

OP posts:

Jellycatspyjamas · 24/01/2023 01:40

Fair enough I know sw are busy at the moment with the covid backlog etc but she keep telling us we were not her priority and she didn't have time to do the report.

Thats just ridiculous - yes there are always competing priorities and some things need an urgent response but a court report is relatively straightforward and literally gets a case off your desk immediately citing out a whole set of statutory visits and reviews, so I’d tend to prioritise that. There’s just no way there hasn’t been time in 6 months to get it done.

Things are much simpler when you no longer have social work to contend with, and I am one.

Original poster

claireb7rg · 24/01/2023 09:23

Jellycatspyjamas · 24/01/2023 01:40

Fair enough I know sw are busy at the moment with the covid backlog etc but she keep telling us we were not her priority and she didn't have time to do the report.

Thats just ridiculous - yes there are always competing priorities and some things need an urgent response but a court report is relatively straightforward and literally gets a case off your desk immediately citing out a whole set of statutory visits and reviews, so I’d tend to prioritise that. There’s just no way there hasn’t been time in 6 months to get it done.

Things are much simpler when you no longer have social work to contend with, and I am one.

We were her first adoption case (she's on the safeguarding child protection team) and her priority were the children in need. Because our kids were 'safe' we were at the bottom of her list.

She had also never seen an annexe A and didn't know how to fill it in. 🙄

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Kite1 · 07/06/2023 20:35

Hi adoptee here does anyone here know what legal fiction is and how it is used in the adoption process

Kite1 · 07/06/2023 20:38

Also does anyone know what the word coeinptionator means and how that relates to adoption thank you in advance

Chocapple · 07/06/2023 22:53

@Kite1 has started their own thread regarding their questions above.