Sleeping away from home (school trips etc)

[PoppyStellar]

DD (12) has always struggled with sleep, particularly settling off to sleep, but we had got to a point where she was sleeping in her own room and would get to sleep by herself on weekends with the tv on, and with me sitting with her for 30 mins to an hour max after reading with her on a school night. I am well aware this isn't great sleep habits but it represented a massive improvement on where we were a few years ago. I really thought we'd turned a corner.

However, despite managing sleepovers when she was younger with a couple of her friends or at my parents, she now is really struggling with sleeping without me and it is stopping her from going on residential trips with school and youth club and the like. She tried one this weekend. Despite doing intensive prep including with the clinical psychologist we work with, she didn't sleep at all on the first night (rang me at 2am and I stayed on face time with her for the rest of the night, she did doze off I think about 5am but was awake again at 7) I gave her lots of praise over text saying how well she'd done to stay, and really thought she'd be able to do the next night as she'd be so physically exhausted. She didn't. Rang me at 11:30 saying she couldn't sleep and asking me to come and get her which I did but it was over an hour away so it was 1am before I got there.

She's so frustrated with herself and I really want to help her crack this but I am really struggling to be sympathetic which I know sounds awful but I just have this vision that I will never get a night off. Ever. I'm a single parent. I'm equally frustrated she is going to miss out on an upcoming school residential which requires a 2 night sleepover which she says she can't do. She enjoys the daytime stuff when she goes but can't crack the nighttimes.

I feel utterly ground down by the lack of respite and the lack of independence. And then I get frustrated with myself, but snap at her, because I don't want her to miss out on stuff because of fear. She managed sleepovers and brownie camping trips when she was younger (albeit was very anxious about them) but she's got herself to a completely intransigent place now where she says she can't sleep if I'm not there, even though she managed it when she was younger.

My reserves are shot. I know I need self care but how can I carve out that time when she's always there or I'm at work - I have taken a big salary cut in a new job to have more time at home but I still have to work full time.

Not sure what I'm asking other than does anyone have a magic bullet that will enable her to get over this fear. We have been working with an adoption specific clinical psychologist for years and whilst lots of things have improved as a result, sleep still feels like this insurmountable issue. I hate that I'm cross with her about something I know she's not doing deliberately but it's been 5 years or so of therapy. I kind of expected we might have cracked sleep by now rather than create a whole new sleep problem. I'm so ground down, just need a bit of sympathy and hope. And if anyone has a tale of how their child overcame this fear and went on to be happily independent I'd love to hear it. In my darkest moments currently I feel like she is never going to be able to live independently from me. I don't want that for her or me. And selfishly I think 'I didn't sign up for a child who couldn't be an independent adult, I said I couldn't cope with that'

Help

I have always struggled to sleep especially away from home.

TBH I would ask if for exceptional circumstances whether she could could either a hypnotic or high strength Phenergen.

I can 2 nights not sleeping I have no idea when I struggle to get to sleep and stay asleep it's horrible.

I suspect her anxiety about not being able to get to sleep is sky high.

Can I just clarify, the only thing that makes you worry about independence from you is to do with sleep? And did your clinical psychologist advise that she phones you and you stay on facetime with her, and go and pick her up at 1am or was that what you thought was best? Did the clin psych advise about what to do if your dd couldn't sleep? And your dd copes in other ways with the resi trip, there aren't other anxieties around bullying or getting lost or taken or anything?

I can offer you hope that an adopted child who slept terribly and who had other difficulties problems during childhood can go on to live independently, but if you could clarify the above it would make it easy to give advice.

easier not easy

It sounds like you have been working on this for years, so I'm very aware you will most likely have tried ALL of these - apologies in advance!

What helped us eventually:

• lots of sleepovers at grandparents where I stayed too, gradually reducing the time I was there (i.e. first we arrived and left together, then next time I arrived after DC and grandparents had supper, then next time after grandparents had put DC to bed but they were obviously still awake etc).
• same thing in reverse in our house, where grandparents came to stay overnight and I was there for shorter and shorter periods (working up to me having a night in a hotel - the holy grail for lone parents!)
• all the usual stuff about borrowing a t-shirt that smelt of me, social stories, making sure we left a puzzle or something unfinished at home so we could soberly agree "we will finish this together when we get back"
• I didn't do lots of facetime or phone calls. But I did record a video of myself in my pjs saying goodnight and sending them loads of love, that DC could watch as many times as they wanted. That helped them feel in control of "accessing" me, without getting all stirred up by speaking to me live and wondering whether or not I would come.

We too are working towards a possible school residential. It's two nights and I've made a firm plan with DC that they will do night 1, come home for night 2, and go back and enjoy day 3. This is because I know they won't sleep on night 1 (and yes I know "loads of non-adopted kids won't sleep either" but it's so, so different) and so will have almost zero emotional resilience to get through the second day. By the evening of that second day, DC will be hanging on by a thread. So they already know I will be coming to get them after supper, taking them home for a sleep, then dropping them back for breakfast for the the final day. Who knows how it will go, but I'm crossing my fingers the certainty of it will help them feel secure...

So I don't know if that gives you hope or not! But mine finds nights hard, has always been fearful and found it difficult to settle to sleep even at home, and I absolutely hear you about really needing to believe change is coming and a bit of rest for you. I think it helped us both to accept that DC probably won't sleep on a night away, but instead work on calming strategies and not worrying about whether or not sleep comes. That way they don't expect to get to sleep and they don't feel like things are going wrong if they can't do it, if you see what I mean?

The pp has said mostly what i would have said but I wanted to make sure I wasn't crossing over clin psych advice, or missing other issues such as bullying.

The only other things I'd add is in relation to normal nights with you. Firstly whether it is worth talking to the GP about melatonin, as a short term thing, as taking melatonin short term can be helpful to kick start decent sleep. And secondly consider switching tv for listening to something, as falling to sleep listening is still not ideal but is better than tv.

And thirdly do you know what is causing the anxiety around sleep? For example, one adopted child I know slept around 3 hours a night for years because they were worried about birth family, but told no one about this as nothing had been said about birth family for so long and they didn't want to disrupt things or rock the boat. It wasn't until they finally saw for themselves that her birth family were okay that she slept and she slept all day and all night only waking for food for about a week! If there is a specific thing on your dd's mind then talking about it and dealing with it will help. This is just an idea, you may already know what the cause is.

I am not sure it is a good idea to be doing facetime or taking night time calls, for reasons pp has said, and I would want to either postpone residential trips or manage them as the pp has or try saying to your dd that if she wants to go on the trip, at night time she should just rest and listen to something on earphones rather than call you to see how that goes. Trying sleep overs with a grandparent or friend from school before a residential trip might be a good idea, as pp has said.

It sounds very hard for you, but by taking things back a step and setting things off on a better foot will make things easier long term.

Not being able to manage sleep and anxiety at 12 is definitely not an indication that she will not ever be able to manage sleep and anxiety, though, if that gives you some reassurance about independence.

I hate that I'm cross with her about something I know she's not doing deliberately but it's been 5 years or so of therapy.

Go easy with yourself, it’s been 5 years of hard work and while she has no control over it, it impacts both your lives. Different issue but both my two had toiletting issues when placed aged 4 and 6, my 6 year old wasn’t toilet trained and I remember (on one epic 16 changes of clothes between them day) feeling furious - not with them so much as about the situation. It’s human - you’re human and you’re going to feel cross.

She’s 12, so lots of physical and emotional stuff going on which means things she managed previously might be a struggle. She has time to develop better sleeping patterns, the child she is now will look very different to the young adult she’ll become - look how far you’ve both come already, things you thought would never improve. It’s so hard when you’re in the trenches but it will change in time.

What work is your clin psych doing with her around sleep - they should give you clear strategies to work with and give advice around how to respond when she’s struggling. In the short term thinking about having strategies in place for her not sleeping (maybe one night sleepovers, nothing planned for the following day in case she needs to sleep) might help in the short term. Maybe looking at her spending time with your parents for respite but coming home to sleep so you do get some time to catch your breath and relax?

Thanks all.

@anotherneutralname the plan you've made for the residential sounds really helpful and something I'll explore with her teacher about the upcoming school trip.

@historyofusernames I agree totally about the FaceTime. It wasn't a good idea and wasn't part of the plan or prep we'd done. They were supposed to hand their phones in so I was expecting a call, if anything, from one of the leaders not from DD herself. With hindsight whilst I thought I was doing the right thing by staying on the phone with her it's just made it worse. It certainly wouldn't be something I'd want her to be able to do again. She has a ' calm' app to fall asleep to on weekdays, that works really well and is better than tv definitely, I will switch back to that full time.

It is definitely just the sleep aspect of being away that causes the problems. And I know the reasons why, it's linked to early life experiences end the fact she had at least 5 moves in care before age 2 and some of those will have been whilst she was asleep so going to sleep in one place with one set of caregivers and waking up somewhere else and never seeing those people again. It's no wonder her anxiety around sleep is sky high.

Sadly I can't elicit help from grandparents as one died during the first lockdown and the other is entirely incapacitated with terminal illness. I think at least some of my anger and frustration is tied up with that. I'm angry and incredibly sad that that strong support doesn't exist anymore and has actually morphed into something else I have to emotionally 'carry'. I know have ti care for my parent as well when what I want (even as a grown adult) if for them to be able to care for me. It's just life and there's nothing I can do to change that situation but naming the strong emotions it brings up is helpful

Thanks for the reassurances and kind words.

@Jellycatspyjamas I like the trenches analogy and you're right, it is good to focus on how far we've come

Apologies for typos

And I know the reasons why, it's linked to early life experiences end the fact she had at least 5 moves in care before age 2 and some of those will have been whilst she was asleep so going to sleep in one place with one set of caregivers and waking up somewhere else and never seeing those people again.

Bloody hell, why on earth would you do that to a child - she’ll have a very visceral reaction to sleep and I can totally see why going to sleep somewhere new would trigger that kind of anxiety. I’ll have a think about it and pop back when I have more time but just wanted to acknowledge how challenging that is for you both.

**And I know the reasons why, it's linked to early life experiences end the fact she had at least 5 moves in care before age 2 and some of those will have been whilst she was asleep so going to sleep in one place with one set of caregivers and waking up somewhere else and never seeing those people again.

This happened to my son, too - he only had one set of FCs but he was removed from care asleep and he’d fall asleep to and from contact. He also fell asleep in the car when I brought him home.

My son (3.5!) cannot sleep in his own bed and the thought of a babysitter in the evenings is laughable. When he’s asleep in my bed he’ll reach for me and if he can’t feel me he wakes up screaming. I think that the above impacted him with this too (along with other things). I’ve tried putting his bed in my bedroom, tried sleeping on his bedroom floor, etc but he has to be with me. For now it’s fine but I don’t know what the solution is for him to feel safer or to trust he’s not going to be removed from our home. We do work with a psychotherapist and so long as our ASF is granted for the next year we’re going to work on this. I still think he doesn’t feel entirely safe when he’s awake / when he’s at nursery so we have that to contend with too.

I feel for you. I’m a solo adopter as well and I am so tired. I know the above doesn’t offer any solutions or help but I wanted to post in solidarity x

@mahrezzy Thank you so much. Solidarity greatly received. I'm sorry you're going through tough times with sleep too though. It really is tough doing it solo. My daughter was almost exactly like your son at that age. Despite my wail for help yesterday I've been doing some reflecting today and overall things have definitely improved since she was little. I hope they do for you too. The ASF has been guaranteed until March 2025 I think now so hopefully we'll all be able to continue with the therapy

I am not sure if I am alone in this or missing the point but it seems incredible to me that the SW had sufficient awareness to put information on file about a child being moved while asleep, but didn't have the awareness to realise that it was not a good idea.

In case helpful, in relation to preverbal trauma this is some research around a therapy for children (young and up to teens) describing how it works and it includes a case study

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7163863/

I have also heard Brucy Perry and van Kolk also talk about therapies for preverbal trauma