Stealing

[Cheesecakeandwine]

I am sure stealing is a behaviour many of you sadly have to manage with your children. Can I ask how you cope both internally (I feel more gutted and frustrated every time it happens and shamefully angry) and the reaction you give to your child?
My daughter is almost 10 and been with us from age 5. She takes things at home, from myself or siblings or simply food. She takes things at school from friends and staff. She even took something from a play date with a friend recently (something she already had at home).

@Cheesecakeandwine

Ozanji, I think you are possibly right, hence why I put it is becoming a ‘ me problem’. I have decided that she is stealing because she is!! She is going into other children’s rooms uninvited (another family rule to ensure each child has their own entitled to privacy) and taking things that don’t belong to her (even when she has her own item the same) hiding it and then joining us in the search to find said item. That is not borrowing. She is entering the bedrooms or rooting through my bag with intention. The therapeutic parent in me is fading fast and I am not ashamed to admit that. I do however want to help her.

I think if you want to help her then you need to stop calling it stealing and start using terms other parents would use when their kids take things off each other. ‘Taking / borrowing without permission’ is probably more effective long term if you want to deal with the shame / feelings attached to stealing. And enforcing a rule about going into other children’s rooms ‘to protect privacy’ is probably unworkable in a sibling context even if the children did have locks on their doors. There needs to be a new rule and what that is can be guided by your therapist.

That is one rule I will absolutely not budge on. All of the children should feel that their own bedrooms are their safe space. For us as a family that is non negotiable.

I can try to change my language at home. However, she can’t borrow other children’s pack lunches at school can she. She can’t give back what has been taken and consumed
I am just tired I think

@Cheesecakeandwine

I can try to change my language at home. However, she can’t borrow other children’s pack lunches at school can she. She can’t give back what has been taken and consumed I am just tired I think

She can’t give it back but she can send sorry cards. But a strategy like that isn’t suitable right now. You do need family therapy.

That strategy isn’t suitable at the moment no.
I will try post adoption for counselling however I am sure we won’t be deemed an urgent enough case at the moment (a friend has recently tried to access the service after having a far tougher time than us) the waiting list is long.
They did an assessment earlier this year to see if they could start life story work (court ordered) but the outcome was that both children did not wish to engage and it would be more damaging to force them.

I wonder if the packed lunches is linked to sensory seeking. Lots of different smells, tastes, textures etc. Also, if she is lacking cause and effect thinking then she might not understand the effect it has on others.

Taking a toy from a friend, could it be linked to a transitional object? Especially as she had one similar?

I am not surprised she is looking for the item. How can she admit to being a thief? Especially if she didn’t understand her taking things would have that effect? If her early experiences linked shoplifting with a positive, connecting experience with her birth mum and now her adoptive mum links it to negative behaviour? Just a thought.

Taking jewellery or games console or toys of siblings can be linked to age and stage. Maybe look at house rules again? Reinforcing that it’s not acceptable?

I disagree with some of the replies here. Some of this is stealing and if you have been bringing her up to understand what stealing is and the effect it has on others she will undertand that, and her behaviour should be seen as communication. Explaining it isn't okay is important (and you can be direct about her mother, and empathise and say you are not being critical of her mother because people have reasons - but it still isn't okay) but tell her the most important thing is that you want to find out her reasons and promise you'll help her.

Her reasons - I woul guess that she really feels she needs something, there is a gaping hold inside her she is trying to fill, she likely feels diconnected from you and everyone and everything. Stealing doesn't happen overnight, or in a vacuum, and there is likely to be other things you have noticed, layers of unresolved feelings which she won't immediately be able to explain - but what you can do is talk to her more in roundabout ways not about the stealing or what is wrong but just generally finding out what is going on with her in other ways, getting to know her thoughts and feelings on everythig and getting to know her inner world really well and you will then start to get clues about what the stealing is about. You can then build up an ongoing dialogue. With the increased attention the stealing might lessen, as she feels more connected with you, and if so you'll know you on the right track and can keep at it until you are the point when you will even be able to predict when it will happen and as an ongoing relationship.

Getting PAS will be good but in the meantime you might well get somewhere with the above.

*would
*gaping hole

Do you know why she doesn't want to engage in life story work? How she really feels here might be related to what is behind the stealing, and eventually helping with those feelings might help

Thanks for posting this OP. It’s really helpful for me too.

FWIW, we’ve had trouble with 1 DC taking things at school (Pokemon cards etc, but also something closer to the bite out of peoples lunches) and the other DC who takes things from first DC and hides them (she’s massively jealous of him in general) and also money. (Also, food, but I’ve reclassified that as bingeing.)

We’ve more or less stopped the money thing by not having any in the house. Like, none. (Which is the Therapeutic Parenting suggestion.)

We’ve more or less stopped the money thing by not having any in the house. Like, none. (Which is the Therapeutic Parenting suggestion.)

I think that my slight issue with the Therapeutic Suggestion is that while this does stop money being stolen in the house, it doesn't help the root problem, or stop the stealing elsewhere. And the worry is that unless you deal with the root problem the stealing ramps up.

@Cheesecakeandwine

Just on the life story work, this was a life saver for us, but the child does have to be ready. I sold it to him as having someone help him sort out all the bad feelings.
So whilst he theoretically agreed, his engagement was a different matter. The therapist put a lot of work into building trust and a relationship with him before getting into anything in any depth. It was a long, hard process, sometimes 10 minutes was all he could cope with, sometimes 20, but never more than 35/40 minutes out of the hour.

@Ted27
My daughter is very anti birth family. It’s a shame actually. I have built good relationships with maternal side. Birth mum is very hit/miss because of her addictions but I take maternal grandmother out for coffee several times a year to keep the lines of communication open. I genuinely believe that one day AD will want to meet up with her birth family again. If we discuss any type of contact she will develop headaches/nausea and actually vomit over the following days (this happened recently when her half sibling asked to see her).
The life story team felt that both children actually had a really good understanding of their past but that they felt overwhelmed thinking about having to talk about it again at the moment. Our adoption was contested (had to change full CO to PO) and the guardian/IRO/csw all spoke with the children so many times to gain their views. They were terrified that they were going to be sent to live with birth father (would never have happened) as it was he who was contesting along with trying to gain a contact order. So now they are closed off to it all.

@shegotthis you have made some very good points and if I am truly honest with myself there is probably far more I could unpick or connect together
I think I feel a bit disappointed with myself for throwing TP under the bus and introducing shame. It can be really difficult to parent birth children alongside adopted children.

@Cheesecakeandwine

don't beat yourself up about it, its so hard to work out what's going on with them. And its so hard to keep away from those shame based responses. We've all made mistakes, what matters is that we repair afterwards.
Keeping on the life story issue- it should be an ongoing process, not just the formal therapy. There isnt any rush. Their understanding changes and matures. My son was nearly 8 when he came to me, he could reel facts and information. As they get older its not the what happened, but why it happened becomes more important. We did the work with the therapist from when he was just shy of 12. He wasnt ready at 10. Now he is 17 we are talking again, his understanding is shifting again.

Having read through all your posts, I can see that you're in a very complex and complicated situation for you and her to process. I think a forum like this can only get you so far in unpicking it so as well as contacting your own post adoption support services, both adoption U.K. and the NATP have help and advice phone numbers and you'd be able to talk it through with them.

I don't have any suggestions but I just wanted to say how much I love this forum.
Imagine if you had put this on AIBU. The answers would have been very different.
We get it here. We understand how different adoptive parenting is. Parenting plus.
It's so good to have this support group.
Sorry for being off topic but I had to say it.

You’ve had really good advice here, I too would look at wha she’s trying to communicate. Children go through a developmental stage in cognitive processes between 8-10ish so it may be that her understanding of her life story is changing and it feels overwhelming (hence she doesn’t want to do life story work), but reverting to those behaviours bay give her a subconscious connection to her birth family. If she doesn’t want that connection I imagine the behaviour feels both compulsive and deeply shameful for her - google repetition compulsion, which is the subconscious urge to revisit old patterns in the hope that, this time, it works out differently.

It’s hard for you - I know the shame of being “that parent” particularly when other school parents, and the school, treat it as behavioural and don’t understand the connection with early trauma. I’m sure we’ve all had times when our parenting was less than therapeutic. You could explore DDP which is an attachment based therapy that works with parent and child. My DD is 10.5 and has started, it’s hard going but I can see benefits for her. The aim is to strengthen attachment styles but includes understanding life story and the impact on the child. My DD too can only tolerate very short bursts of work (10 mins scattered throughout the hour long appointment), but it’s paced at her speed so whatever she can manage is fine.

It might be worth seeking your own therapy to understand what this is touching on you re stealing, our kids can press on old stuff of ours like nothing else. I’m having individual therapy alongside joint work with my DD and it’s invaluable having a safe space to work out my own stuff.

Total name change fail there, previous post was me 🙄