Stealing

[Cheesecakeandwine]

I am sure stealing is a behaviour many of you sadly have to manage with your children. Can I ask how you cope both internally (I feel more gutted and frustrated every time it happens and shamefully angry) and the reaction you give to your child?
My daughter is almost 10 and been with us from age 5. She takes things at home, from myself or siblings or simply food. She takes things at school from friends and staff. She even took something from a play date with a friend recently (something she already had at home).

We luckily didn't have this.
Can she explain why she does it?

She can never explain why. Just shrugs her shoulders and pretends to cry. Last year she spent several days going into other children’s lunches and taking random bites out of their food. The awful thing is when I heard parents discussing the ‘lunch box thief’ on the playground I instantly knew it was her. It was I who spoke with the teacher which enabled them to find her in the act. I still felt sick when what I already suspected was confirmed. I just don’t know how to help.

Have you thought about contacting Post Adoption support?
That behaviour needs help before she goes to secondary.
Maybe an adoption-aware play? therapist could help?

Is it linked to transitional objects? Taking something to remember you and sibling by? Or making sure needs are met? Or sensory seeking? When my birth daughter was younger (preschool age) she used to take small toys from home (things that fit in a pocket) and leave them at friends and family homes. There would be something there to remember her by: it was never a conscious thought but it quickly led to relatives greeting her with “I’ve kept this safe for you. I notice you left it last time”. Could it be similar? I’ll take this object so I have a bit of you with me. I have loads of transitional objects with me. Could it be related to that?

What about getting needs met? Something innate. What are routines like around food? Does she not have access to food when she is hungry? No judgement but I wonder if she is reverting back to getting needs met.

I think stealing is more complex than morally right or wrong.

There could be a lot of shame attached to it especially if the child doesn’t know (or understand why) they do it. Are you able to wonder with her?

We’ve not had issues with stealing.

I think you need to be regulated to address it because it seems complex depending on the object and the motivation whether your daughter knows this or not. She may or may not be able to verbalise it and she may need you to think aloud to help her understand.

I’m really glad you posted it. I’m interested to hear others thoughts.

Have you looked at the A-Z of therapeutic parenting section on stealing? It might help.

@Cheesecakeandwine

She can never explain why. Just shrugs her shoulders and pretends to cry. Last year she spent several days going into other children’s lunches and taking random bites out of their food. The awful thing is when I heard parents discussing the ‘lunch box thief’ on the playground I instantly knew it was her. It was I who spoke with the teacher which enabled them to find her in the act. I still felt sick when what I already suspected was confirmed. I just don’t know how to help.

I posted before reading the reply. That sounds so hard to deal with. I wonder if there is something going on for her that you knew it would be her. What made you think it was your child? Just curious.

I completely get the feeling of helplessness. Do you have someone who you can chat to about this without judgement? It might help you understand what is going on. Post adoption support sound like a good shout.

I think it is ok to feel the way you do.

I think you need to break this down a bit.
I have a really hard time with taking food at home being seen as stealing.
I'm not sure that the lunchbox thing, whilst unacceptable is stealing either.
What other things is she taking?

Food routine is good and there is always food available. The only time I will refuse is if it is just before a meal. It’s like she can’t have anything without it being in excess. For example, a milkshake before bed is not enough, she has to go back into the kitchen and take 3 more cartons and drink them one after the other.
The toy she took from her friend was the same as the many she already has. She watched her teacher put a gift received in her desk then took it. She has her own ds but will take and hide her siblings then pretend to help us all look for it.
I have tried the wondering out load but the more it continues to happen the least therapeutic I feel like being. Maybe it is becoming more of a me problem.
The lying that follows the taking is also hard to listen to.
I knew it was her taking the things at school as she was doing it at home so my gut just screamed at me. I told the staff to help her be found out before it became obvious to the other children and affected friendships.

Oh my goodness Ted27

How on earth can going into lunch boxes provided by other parents for their children not be seen as stealing!! You may as well say go help yourself in that shop over there as taking food is always ok.

The food at home I can cope with but the other children’s belongings not so much so.

It's clearly not acceptable. But you said it was a few days last year, so it's not ongoing behaviour. Maybe she saw other children sharing and was 'copying ' I don't know but it seems a very different thing to me than say taking money or a toy. But if she isnt doing it now then don't worry about it.
Which is why I said break down the behaviour.
What else is she taking? If she is taking things from home she may not see it as stealing.
I remember a poster on another forum getting very wound up about the child stealing. After much pressing, it turns out the child is taking pens and paper. Not posh expensive pens, just plain old biros.
I think its important to understand what she is taking, because she might see it as something different- then you have a better chance of dealing with it

The point about the biros being that I find it really hard to see that as stealing, the same with food at home.
We did go through a good length of time here where my son was taking money from my purse and a piggy bank which had our holiday savings in.
We also have frequent occasions where food goes missing and I find a stash of wrapping hidden somewhere.
One is stealing, one is binge eating - they need different solutions

At home it has been money (from my purse and siblings money box) ds console, a necklace that was stored in my other daughters dressing table. There have been other less significant things.
Things from school have been those (damn) pokemon cards/fidget toys. Also a fidget toy from her friends house which I managed to get her to return saying she had it in her pocket by mistake (it was actually wrapped up in toilet tissue in her bag).
I will say that there is always gaps of several weeks between the incidents (unless I am just not finding other things) and I do try my hardest not to leave things in opportunities way but that becomes exhausting in itself.

Now this is going to sound really mad, but bare with me.
I have a glimmer of a memory of having read it here or on the old AUK boards before they improved' them.

Can you redirect the stealing?

Say to her you understand that for some reason she has urges to take small things from people. You really don't want her doing it from people outside the family so instead you are going to buy small things and leave them where she usually takes things from. So if she gets the urge and goes there she can take the small item instead?

Or give her a special tin to put the things she takes in so they can be repatriated?

Probably mad, but if you have tried everything else...

I think the problem here is you have already decided she is ‘stealing’ and as such you just want solutions to help her stop and have attached shame to it so it won’t. It’ll just escalate and she’ll feel worse and worse about it. But ‘stealing’ isn’t an act it’s an intention. Sharing, borrowing, all things kids are expected to do can all be confused with ‘stealing’. You need to get to the bottom of her intentions and I think, now that there is shame attached to the act, the only way to do this is through family therapy / counselling.

@Cheesecakeandwine

At home it has been money (from my purse and siblings money box) ds console, a necklace that was stored in my other daughters dressing table. There have been other less significant things. Things from school have been those (damn) pokemon cards/fidget toys. Also a fidget toy from her friends house which I managed to get her to return saying she had it in her pocket by mistake (it was actually wrapped up in toilet tissue in her bag). I will say that there is always gaps of several weeks between the incidents (unless I am just not finding other things) and I do try my hardest not to leave things in opportunities way but that becomes exhausting in itself.

The first few things you described, I wouldn’t define as stealing. A lot of kids this age covet what their siblings have. The answer here would be to have clear expectations about what can be borrowed without asking and what cannot, for the whole family. At home we had a really simple rule - anything that family bought for us was expected to be lent or borrowed across all siblings, but anything bought by friends as gifts was only for the recepient. Then it’s up to the parents to try and equalise things if one sibling keeps getting really nice things by her friends. It was probably the only thing my parents got right.

Ozanji, I think you are possibly right, hence why I put it is becoming a ‘ me problem’. I have decided that she is stealing because she is!! She is going into other children’s rooms uninvited (another family rule to ensure each child has their own entitled to privacy) and taking things that don’t belong to her (even when she has her own item the same) hiding it and then joining us in the search to find said item. That is not borrowing. She is entering the bedrooms or rooting through my bag with intention. The therapeutic parent in me is fading fast and I am not ashamed to admit that. I do however want to help her.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with Ozanj but I do think there might be mileage in starting to describe things as 'borrowing' rather than stealing.

As in 'has someone borrowed DD's necklace? '
'Has someone borrowed money from my purse?'

If it reduces shame, it may help your DD to be more open to admitting & thus returning items?

Just read your next response…….all things in bedrooms belong to said child. This has always been made clear. She absolutely knows not to go into anyone else’s bedroom unless invited.
We have a playroom and snug that all things left inside are shared.

Underthenameofsandars I did actually try that quite a few times but sadly it never worked.
She does have very vivid memories of birth mother taking her on shoplifting sprees and blaming her and younger sibling when caught.

Given your update, I'll re suggest Post adoption support.

It's attachment behaviour linked to trauma I think.

thechildpsychologyservice.co.uk/advice-strategy/stealing/

What is her relationship to these other children? Are they her birth siblings? Your birth children? Or other adopted children? Did they come after her?

She's a child who has experienced massive loss.

I'd try to differentiate between normal age and stage naughtiness that all kids do (going into siblings rooms and taking things) and her trauma related behaviour.

She's also under the age of criminal responsibility so labelling her with the criminal act of stealing is always counter productive in these situations.

It’s certainly looking like the next step to take.

@Cheesecakeandwine

Underthenameofsandars I did actually try that quite a few times but sadly it never worked. She does have very vivid memories of birth mother taking her on shoplifting sprees and blaming her and younger sibling when caught.

Then calling it stealing will only make things worse. She associates stealing with love (Mum no doubt made them feel good about it when they got away with it) and if it’s now an act of shame then in her mind she could see you as not loving her. This is why I think family therapy is important. You won’t be able to resolve this through doing anything.

I have birth children, other adopted children and also her biological sibling. She came to our family initially fostered if that makes a difference to people’s opinions. So although these behaviours are not new to me the working through them long term are if that makes sense.