Womans Hour, R4, Mon 29 Nov

[UnderTheNameOfSanders]

Only caught the tail end (on way home from my covid jab), but they were discussing lack of post adoption support. Might be worth a listen.

I haven’t listened yet (I will after), but I wonder if it’s in response to this story which appeared over the weekend:
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10250965/Mother-forced-return-adopted-son-care-challenging-behaviour.html

Seen a few of these stories around lately. I definitely think we need to improve support for adoptive families and adoptees (into adulthood too) but I worry about the privacy/consent of the kids involved.

On twitter lots of talk about disruptions. Are they common?

I was amazed that AUK said only 3-4% adoptions breakdown. I guess that must be for those after adoption legalised where minors return to care.
I guess it doesn't cover those that disrupt before adoption order, or those where things break once the adoptee is a young adult, or where adopters hang on in there with the help of friends & family.

but I worry about the privacy/consent of the kids involved I agree

I think at the heart of it is multiple and avoidable failings within the system.

I was amazed that AUK said only 3-4% adoptions breakdown I don't think they include where the child has gone to a specialist residential care as the adopter remains "parent from afar" but in reality, this a total breakdown from the point of view of the child. Residential care is in no way comparable to a normal family or normal childhood.

I'm shocked at how many adoptions break down and how shitty the support is. This story has me quite shook up! Definitely I've been naïve. My son is not quite 3 and it's been hard at times but nothing insurmountable. I'm scared about the future!

Lots of talk on twitter from adult adoptees who are understandably angry about the story. More support is needed but the way this is being presented doesn't totally sit right with me especially because the children are still minors. But it does seem to have sparked a discussion about support.

When we adopt, we're in it for life. I doubt anyone goes in with the mindset of ever disrupting the adoption. Personally I went into this having done a lot of research about early trauma etc. But I also expected an amazing gamut of support which it seems doesn't always come through.

I echo PP's.

The professional support I have received has been quite frankly appalling esp in light of the huge levels of child to parent violence towards me. I have been offered absolutely no training or strategies even when the Placement was at breaking point. I have simply been 'left to it'. It's clear after numerous meetings/correspondence that he SW's dont want to get involved in anything to do child to parent violence. They just say remove yourself from the situation... they have no idea.

Where is the therapy and support promised during training ?! I have shouted so loud for it.

Thankfully we have a really good school working with us. I am getting so valuable info from this board and Adoption UK/NAOTP.

I have worked so hard with my son and things are improving albeit slowly. We have both developed strategies to use and do loads of LSW. Its clear we will have a very very hard road but our LOVE for each other is really helping things.

I think Adopters really do need to go into Adoition with their eyes wide open. I certainly had no rose tinted spectacles whatsoever but boy... this is HARD.

LSW = Life Story Work!

@caydeemarie

I'm shocked at how many adoptions break down and how shitty the support is. This story has me quite shook up! Definitely I've been naïve. My son is not quite 3 and it's been hard at times but nothing insurmountable. I'm scared about the future!

Lots of talk on twitter from adult adoptees who are understandably angry about the story. More support is needed but the way this is being presented doesn't totally sit right with me especially because the children are still minors. But it does seem to have sparked a discussion about support.

When we adopt, we're in it for life. I doubt anyone goes in with the mindset of ever disrupting the adoption. Personally I went into this having done a lot of research about early trauma etc. But I also expected an amazing gamut of support which it seems doesn't always come through.

@caydeemarie, at three, my easy-to-place, no needs baby was an utter delight. At 13, she is now registered blind, due to drugs and alcohol ingested in utero, (losing her sight only happened two years ago) and is now awaiting assessment for ASD/PDA/ADHD. She has a rare diagnosis of neonatal abstinence syndrome. This week, in a fit of rage, she caused several hundred pounds worth of criminal damage to her vulnerable grandmother’s home. My DD goes missing regularly, steals everything she can lay her hands on (yes, even from her grandfather as he was in the final stages of his terminal illness) and is aggressive and violent, plus utterly foul-mouthed and verbally abusive. I agree, we’re in it for life. It’s like a life sentence.

Honestly, there should be less victim blaming on here, especially from those who have barely taken a step or two down the adopter’s path. At three, I would have been with you. At 13, with the turbulence and rage of confused identity, extreme hormones, plus the increasing revelation of the extent of the genetically predisposed conditions, life is viewed from a very different lens. Genuinely, I believe that some children have been so physically and psychologically damaged by their pre-adoption experiences, that they simply cannot live well in a family environment. As you say, I’m in it for life. But at what great cost to myself as a human being and to the other loved ones around my troubled child?

It’s funny on here how if a DP fails to wash up or speaks out of turn there are cries of LTB, but when it’s a child you have taken into your heart, and the relationship breaks down, due to consistent violence and stealing and lying, because all humans have their tipping point, there are cries of ‘shame on you!’

@SmaugMum

@SmaugMum When you say victim blaming 'on here' do you mean MN in general or the Adoption board specifically? If the latter then I'm surprised as I wouldn't have said I've seen it. If the former, then ignore them, they have no idea what adoption is like.

With each of mine, things have gone v well until 15/16 when for both individually thing have been difficult, though luckily not violent.

Remember you can be in it for life, but still not have to do day to day for life if it is too much.

That sounds really tough @SmaugMum ❤️

Sometimes I feel like as APs we're seen as selfish. But we didn't make the decision to separate our children from their birth family, we didn't cause the trauma. We're picking up the pieces and when we're honest about how difficult it can be, we're quite often told to suck it up because we chose this.

I am dreading my son's teenage years. Sometimes I do wonder if I made the right choice to adopt and if I'm up for everything that's ahead.

Just wanted to add I'm shocked about adoptions breaking down because I really thought SS would do everything possible and provide any support to prevent it. But it seems they quite often just leave you to it. Not shocked at parents who are struggling.

As someone just in stage 1 this is really scary. I try to rationalise the concerns with how bad I was as a teenager and how I have turned out but it's still a real worry of mine. Its just so awful there doesnt seem to be more support, especially when it's so heavily scrutinised when you are applying. To shut the door and say job done when children are known to have issues throughout their lives just seems neglectful on the LA/agency side?

@smaugmum when you say victim blaming, I don't understand. I think that if you are equating LTB with LTchild or blame the child then your thinking is very, very off in my opinion. I think that where adopters and other parents are struggling, the children in the situation are struggling more - and with fewer resources and less control - because they are still children.

I think in relation to adoption generally a lot of the problems are to do with the fact that advice given to adoptive parents (and shared between adoptive parents) is out of date, misleading, not in accordance with research and this is causing a lot of problems within adoptions. I see many posts, vlogs, blogs, books with quite frankly appalling advice which goes against research. I think that post adoption support is sometimes dreadful because of the out of date thinking - for example, thinking that psych input should only happen once the child is attached - absolutely bonkers.

There is more available online now, though, as one positive, and so it is possible to work out where things have gone wrong. There is more available generally, but difficult to access - but more psychology posts are opening up, apparently, so the future may not be so bleak.
Violence is not innate, and it isn't an inevitable result of early life experiences.

Sometimes I feel like as APs we're seen as selfish. But we didn't make the decision to separate our children from their birth family, we didn't cause the trauma. We're picking up the pieces and when we're honest about how difficult it can be, we're quite often told to suck it up because we chose this I am not sure where you are getting this from - is it the comments about the article? Because I think that the criticisms there were wider than about someone saying they are struggling with parenting or finding things difficult?

I do agree though, parents are basically expect to suck it up. Very often a parent's needs will conflict with their children's needs, and parents are expected to put their children's needs first, generally.

@caydeemarie

with the best will in the world, I doubt even the best SW devoting all their time to a struggling family, probably couldnt prevent a disruption, on their own.
Most of the things that the most challenging children need are not in the gift of the average SW - funding for therapy, access to therapists, waiting time for referrerals and diagnoses, CAMHs is overwhelmed and in many places rubbish, lack of trauma aware schools and appropriate educational settings.

The most complex children need the most complex solutions and the holistic, co-ordinated approach needed is not funded and doesnt exist.