Excessive crying especially in eveninns

[Notmenotme]

Struggling a lot. Adopted a 14 month old about a month ago, and she wails during care tasks in the evening. It’s been so bad.

We should count ourselves lucky, but most of the time we can’t work it out. She won’t let us feed her, but she’s hungry and can’t really feed herself enough (most of it ends up on the floor and she ends up being in the high chair for far too long…!) she cries if it’s normal dinner and not a yoghurt.

Then during bath she screams her head off when you wipe her face and wash her hair. Although it feels cruel, we feel it’s sometimes better to just get it over and done with quickly so the crying stops quicker but to be honest the crying doesn’t stop -

We have an older child (3.5) who was adopted 3 years ago, and the screaming is really getting to him aswel and we can’t always separate care tasks as some evenings I’m on my own as my partner has parents evenings once a week.

She wakes up at 5 every morning and we can always tell she’s tired. She is not generally whingy during the day, apart from the mornings.

We just can’t settle her and we are really struggling to be honest!! I don’t even know what I’m hoping for by posting… we know it’s early days still but there’s just no way we can work out what she’s crying for.

We obviously give her cuddles and things but to be honest I just have to put her in her cot and close the door sometimes because I can’t bear it…!

The first couple of weeks this didn’t happen at all, it’s only just started the last week…!
She has a good long sleep in the middle of the day….!

I don't really have any advice, I adopted a 7 year old so no baby experience but two things spring to mind.
Are there any sensory issues, she likes yoghurt but not 'real ' food, maybe it's about texture. Also with the water on her head and hair.
Do you bath her every night, if so do you really need to - maybe the nights you are on your own you don't do bath?

She’s realising that everything she knew and loved in the past has gone and she’s mourning for that. Evenings are when she’s most tired so is grieving the most.
Have you seen the fc at all?

It's hard to know why a 14 month old is crying even if you've had them from birth. There could be sensory issues or tiredness at play but most likely it's that she's objecting to her whole world being turned upside down in the only way she knows how. If I were you I'd really be picking my battles. At 14 months wanting to feed herself without the proper skills to do it isn't uncommon. Can you give her finger foods and accept that some will go on the floor? And try to stick to what you know she likes to get you through this tricky patch. Then start to widen her food horizons when things are looking calmer. And as Ted said, do you need to wash her hair every day? My ds started freaking out in the bath with foster carers during intros so I didn't even attempt to give him a bath for nearly two weeks, just cleaning him with a sponge outside the bath. I didn't want to make bath times a battle ground. As long as face, hands and bum are clean it's not worth stressing you or her about the rest. If she's fine with the bath but not the face wash then I would persevere with the bath, but focus on making it enjoyable for her. If she had a wipe over her face after dinner you could leave her hair and face alone in the bath. Then once she sees it as enjoyable try to introduce just a bit of water on her head in a few days and build up from there.

I guess issue is bigger than just the solves but we have decided no bath on nights when am alone and finger foods only from now on - so thanks for those tips!! We are persevering with the bath as she did love the bath before and it is part of her routine from foster carer.

My partner told me that he hates her and can’t stand her and doesn’t want to come home. In fairness to him, he’s prefaced this with he knows he shouldn’t feel like this. We are also both very kind to her but nothing seems to solve the crying.

It is almost like she’s desperate to get to bed and so she may just be over tired.

I don’t think it’s a texture issue as these are foods she will eat. It may be teething, but she keeps pointing to the chair to eat.

Thanks for saying pick your battles because I will be doing this much more!!!

I’ll be feeding them dinner earlier too I think as that may be the problem as she may be too tired to get to dinner and bath without melting down!

She has seen foster carer a lot, gets very stressed when she sees. Also our son got very stressed. We’ve done incredibly long introductions (1 month) so whilst yes she will be upset she doesn’t have the foster carer, we can’t see foster carer again and I don’t think it would be supportive.

I know that we barely know her and that’s the problem… and I know that time will heal. But I guess I just feel so alone as it feels like my partner has clocked out. We could only afford for him to have 2 weeks off work and I feel like I’m seeing a lovely child during the day that when he comes home turns into a screaming banshee!

I think part of the problem is high expectations on how we are supposed to feel about this child… supposed to love them and care for them but you don’t even really know them!

Really try not to pressure yourself to love (or even like) her at this stage. I know that sounds harsh but realistically you’re all still finding your feet, getting to know each other - love comes in it’s own time.

I wonder if moving her bath to the morning might help, is she’s overtired it may just be one step too far for her to do it before bed. She may also really be protesting all the change, after two weeks I guess she’s getting a sense that this is permanent and may be scared and angry about everything that’s happened.

My DD was 6 when placed, and very hard to love - it took a while tbh and I sometimes wondered if it would ever happen, but it did.

She will get upset when sees foster carer but that’s normal. She needs to process that grief, learn that you will be there to comfort her and trust that people she loves won’t disappear.
At a month in she will be terrified.
Please don’t leave her to cry and shut the door (unless you are losing your temper and need to to keep everyone one safe). You will store up bigger trust issues for the future.
Have you got a good friend you can confide in about how you are feeling?

It sounds really tough for you all at the moment. I'm trying to remember what my little one was like at 14 months and I have a feeling 'battles' around feeding, bath time, bedtime etc. were all quite regular and normal for that age! They are trying to express their independence with limited language and get frustrated. Tiredness is a big factor too. It sounds like moving bath time to the morning might be an idea to make bedtime simpler - teatime, short playtime (bubbles, balloon, sensory lights & calming music type of play) story, cuddles bed??

However, I'd agree with the PP's who have said grieving for loss and anger/confusion at the changes. (I don't think they stress this enough in training, or at least not when we did ours!) I do also remember on our early placement training the adopter leading it telling us the love took longer to arrive with her second adoption. I remember thinking it was very powerful to hear that because there is almost an expectation that it should happen instantly. Keep the cuddles coming.

You say your partner has "clocked out". Is there any way they could do more with your son, perhaps at bedtime, so that you could focus on the baby. Or getting them to have a specific role at bedtime for the baby e.g. reading the story?? I do remember my husband having a bit of a meltdown in the early days of our placement and I think this may be another thing that is relatively common but not talked about that much. Big hugs!

I cant comment on the wider issues but I do think one of the problems you are dealing with here is over tiredness. I'd bring dinner and bed forward by an hour and see if that helps.

Could she have her main meal and lunchtime when she’s more amenable and then that takes the pressure off in the evening and you can aim for an earlier bedtime? What about a walk around the block in the evening - crying always seemed less intense when mine were little when we were outside!

AT lunchtime*

Just one thing in relation to finger foods is that a lot of 14month olds won't be able to feed themselves enough with finger foods and hunger worsens other problems. In fact if she is crying and pointing to the chair this might be one of the problems along with being over tired.

Finding something which dc thinks is absolutely delicious might mean she may well let you help feed her. I went through about 7 meals for one of my dc on one day until finding eventually something they would accept, and they ate it almost exclusively for a long, long time afterwards (they haven't grown up fussy at all though!). It was spaggheti bolognese with courgettes and carrots stewed in the sauce.

For finger foods which are nutritious and filling, I can recommend a cupcake which is is made out of SR flour, butter, honey, eggs (ie normal recipe with honey instead of sugar) ground almonds and a bit of lemon rind for taste. It was easy to make and bake, I used a hand mixer, and DC would eat it anywhere, car, pram. It filled them up and gave them protein etc.

Not an AP, but my dd hated baths and showers until 18 months old. Before then she'd have a shower once a week and I'd power through as quickly as possible. I was lucky that she was rarely dirty, and though her hair would get a tad grubby I decided it was worth it.

Now, at 19 months, she has a nightly bath, and I can even wash her hair with minimal fuss from her. I waited til she started to try to get in. So I'd cut down on baths and let take away some of her evening stress.

I really appreciate all the comments thank you so much it’s so supportive!!

We did everything an hour earlier last night - and did easy finger foods. I’m ashamed to say both children had dry Pasta (so as to not need much of a bath…) and boiled carrots, but they both loved it….! Bed time was 6:30 for both children. There were absolutely no tears whatsoever….! She was still up at 5 so it appears to make no difference to wake up time… (we were worried she’d wake even earlier…)

We think a tooth may have come through, but in the blur of screaming we didn’t see this.

Partner has admitted it was a low point for him and he remembers feeling like this with our first - it’s just been very difficult - whereas for our first he had 2 months off, he’s only had 2 weeks off.

@comforting I wish I was an earth mother who would create such things but I do tend to just buy these things! Sounds like a great recipe though!!!

Thank you to all the comments especially about love not coming quick. It’s hard to get over the expectation that everybody around you seems to have that you instantly love the child.

@Newpuppymummy I would never intentionally leave a child to cry. It’s only ever when it gets too much and to be honest has probably only ever been for about 30 seconds (just feels like hours!!!), which we already feel guilty about. I understand what you are saying about the foster carer, but when the visits are not about the child, they shouldn’t happen which is why they’ve stopped. Not all foster carers understand the point of the visits and when they basically shout at the child to come to them and get upset when they don’t, they are not exactly positive experiences for the child…!!!

I found parenting my birth daughter between the ages of 12-18 months the most difficult. They tell you to stick to routine but at that age, routine went out the window. Instead, I really had to watch and follow her cues. If I thought she appeared hungry, I fed her (even if her last snack was 30 mins ago!) or if she refused to nap because she wasn’t tired, that’s ok too. Sometimes bedtime was straight after dinner because she was so tired, sometimes much later because there was no point in a bedtime battle. My point being, it’s a tricky age and what was their favourite food one day, may be their most hated food the next. Or it might be because they are not hungry or teething or tired. It’s so difficult to know.

I would focus on spending time with your daughter and getting to know her. Pick your battles and trust your instincts. If she seems tired or hungry just respond and she will soon let you know if you are right. At that age, focus on the basic needs.

You are all trying to adjust to becoming a family of 4. That is very tricky too. Make sure both you and your partner have individual time with both children at different points throughout the day (eg, maybe your partner gets baby ready for bed while you play with older child and then maybe your partner could do bath time with your older child while you settle baby). Both children need opportunities to bond with both parents. It’s really difficult. My husband threw himself into work because it was too difficult at home and it really affected the whole family and I wish I had said something sooner but I didn’t realise it was happening (just slightly later home each day until the point he was missing bedtimes). Also, this is maybe the hardest part, don’t forget time together as a couple. It might mean other things have to give like housework and home cooked meals (my mum used to cook our meals and drop them off so I could re-heat due to my sons food anxiety). This is a very challenging time for all of you and it’s important to recognise that and come together as a family.

It’s lovely to hear your update. You’ve got this. You are being so reflective and thinking about things. Your children will reap the rewards to have such loving, nurturing parents.

Oh and congratulations!

Honestly, I am not an earth mother, nor a domestic goddess, in fact anyone who knows me would laugh their head off at the suggestion. My dc would not touch my cakes with a barge pole nowadays!

I basically threw it all in a bowl in approximate proportions, mixed it with a whizzer and put it in the oven in a mince pie tray - my dc were all over 95 centile in height and needed the protein and energy while going through a difficult eating time! DC loved them and would eat them in the car etc.

They won't let me sing to them anymore either not that that is relevant

Dried pasta and carrots sounds great too!

I’m ashamed to say both children had dry Pasta (so as to not need much of a bath…) and boiled carrots, but they both loved it….!

No shame. They both ate and loved it - you got them fed and through the bedtime routine without tears - that’s a huge achievement given where you’ve been, you have a lifetime to I still good eating habits, at the moment it’s just about getting through the days as calmly as possible. Be so proud of yourself for adjusting and being flexible to both children’s needs.

I had a four year old who would only eat Chocolate Ready Brek and blueberries. He’s now an 8 year old who will eat just about anything I make for him (apart from cauliflower cheese - he looked at me like I’d shat in his mouth 😂). Honestly you’re all doing so well - hang in there.

Dried pasta is somewhat of a staple in my house. We just make sure she has a drink at the same time and doesn't get too much because it will expand in her stomach. It is great for sensory issues with its crunch.

@Notmenotme sounds like a massive achievement! Well done. To me that is a huge win. Its not easy having two children with such a small age gap let alone when they are adopted. I take small wins whenever I can get them. My five year old (who we’ve had since 6 months) is a really fussy eater, but I have to pick my battles and feed him things I know he will eat.

I hope things are continuing to go well. I remembered also the classic aeroplane strategies when you are wanting to feed your dc, being an aeroplane with the spoon?!

I think it is very important with toddlers and children to make sure routine, enough food, enough sleep, not ill are all boxes ticked but I do also strongly agree with the comments made by Newpuppymummy on this thread about grief and contact.

The contact visits are important whether foster carers or birth parents know how to handle things well or not. What you could do is have a conversation with the foster carers about how dc is and so prep them about what to do and say and/or also to be aware of what is likely to happen and also think of ways to structure the visits and think about strategies for stepping in if you think foster carers are handling things badly. Also perhaps have one of you there and one of you out with your other dc to lessen the stress for your other dc. I think finding ways of handling things and stepping in would be better than no visits.

Thanks for all the support. It doesn’t feel like we are doing well but I guess we need to look at where we started - with a child who wouldn’t even come to us…!

I appreciate the foster carer visits are important but we did stop them because of advice from social workers too. I don’t feel confident to school a foster carer on how to react - and her supervising social worker didn’t even show up to anything - even the goodbye contact. None of the transition meetings either.

I do really feel for her foster carer as she was really not supported at all. We have complained via an email and a conversation with our social worker but we are considering raising it as a proper complaint when we have the adoption order. The response from our child’s social worker was that she was told not to come (which she was, as the supervising social worker was meant to be there). I do understand social workers may have emergencies but to not even phone a foster carer on the day a child whose been living with them for over a year is pretty poor!

we have done lots of virtual contact, but it’s kind of petered out a bit now. I will text the foster carer today to see if she’s up for a phone call - but unfortunately it’s totally out of our hands. Physically it is too hard for her aswell as she doesn’t drive, and it’s over an hours drive and I’m not willing to drive to her.

We had a few good nights but obviously the worlds biggest cold hit the house and she was a bit of a nightmare to put to sleep (obviously on the night my partner had another parents evening.) I had a bit of a break down as I hadn’t slept at all the night before and have essentially had broken sleep for all of last week. However my partner came home bless him from a 14 hour day and got her to sleep in all of 10 minutes (I say it was an hour and a half of cuddles with me that did it…). I think I just felt really guilty that my older child’s story was done in about 5 mins flat and interrupted several times. And this was after a day where she had to be held the whole day…

I’m off to boots to buy every vapour plug going now…! She was covered in snuffle babes but it didn’t seem to help. And dosed up with calpol which she will be all day today!!!

I know colds destroy children at this age and I remember it with our first. It’s just twice as hard with two when you’re on your own. I don’t know how single adopters cope - hats off to you all!!

Thanks to everybody who’s read this and replied!! The support here is lovely and a lifeline!!

Hi @Notmenotme

I am a single adopter.

My son (5) came home a good few months ago and I had so many of the same issues. I worked out (it took a long time to) that he was absolutely petrified of having his world turned upside down. And that he had lots of Sensory issues e.g with being washed on body/hair, teeth cleaning and hair brushed and food. None of the Sensory issues had ever been picked up by the FC's.. but that's another story. Another thing was that he was doing anything and everything to keep me close.

It is clear how much you are invested in your daughter and you are doing absolutely brilliantly.

Keep on with the routines and yes pick your battles. As my son was older & very controlling I had to spend 8x months being very very bounderied before I could start to 'ease up'. By that time he knew that he could trust me.

In terms of the FC's... my gut instinct from your posts is to stop the Contact. How will your daughter start to trust / to attach you, move away from the FC etc if the FC is all about her own adult needs. Contact with the FC's is supposed to be about what is best for the CHILD.

I hope this is some help and @Notmenotme you ARE doing an amazing job.

Hi op, I feel your pain. We adopted a 14 month old she was shut down for two months in grief and fear. I put no expectation on myself to love her. I was with her all the time she slept in our room. I just did walks, play t.v, lots of nice food, calm and quiet, very minimal contact with fc as this upset her and I felt she needed to bond with us as quickly as possible. I chucked any routine out of the window and just did a shower after a poo and play baths normally during the day. She was also teething so I just gave her plenty of teething granules. We just waited it out and now nearly a year later she is great, settled, playful, happy and bonded. It is so hard for them and although necessary I really felt for her such a physiological shock to the system.