Have bio DD, want to adopt but... *long***

[Flowermum]

HI there,

I'm not sure how to word this so I hope it doesn't come out wrong in anyway but I just want to get my thoughts down and maybe ask for advice.

My partner and I have an 18month old daughter who we adore. When she was seven months old we started trying for another baby, we both wanted to have two close in age. I had to have a huge emergency operation in June and was in hospital for two weeks. The time alone gave me lots of opportunity to re-evaluate my life. I started to think that i wanted to re-visit the idea of adoption, DP and I had talked about it before and hadn't ruled it out. But then I decided not to think about it for a while because I thought I was just all in a heap mentally over being away from DD etc.

So a couple of weeks ago the whole adoption thing came up again with DP and we talked and talked and decided it's still something we'd love to do. We really feel that we could give a child a loving home.

So things that stand in our way are these:
-We aren't married, but plan on being so in the next two years. Spoke to the adoption board (we're not in UK btw) and they said that's not a problem, just get married and let them know when we do it.
-We really don't have a lot of money. DP is working and studying at night. He's got huge potential, is doing so well in work, etc etc, he just hasn't gotten that big pay rise we're waiting for yet. But he'll be qualified soon and then we'll be flying.
-We rent, don't own a house.
-Families know nothing about any of this. Have told one close friend. She isn't sure, she doesn't think it's a bad idea, just not sure it's the best idea, because we have so little money.
-I stupidly drunkenly told a much more drunker friend the other night that I had thought about it and she said that adoption is only for people who can't have kids, forget about it. Now she was angry-drunk, and I'm sure she wouldn't have said that sobber but it was a bit of a reality shock for me.

So I think what I'm asking is has anyone been in this situation before? I'm not ruling out having more biological children, I just have always wanted to adopt and feel now's a good time to do it, while I'm young, DD is young.

Sorry this is so long, I think I'm just looking for reassurance, and honest opinions really. Is this the right thing to do?

x

haven't been there, but good luck with getting through the adoption process. Try to focus on what you want to gain for yourselves and your family as from what i have heard from friends it is a long road.
So many children don't have the love they deserve, and I wish you all the best finding your future.

BUMP

Thanks so much giggle. It's constantly on my mind, I really want to be sure I'm doign this for all the right reasons.

Where I am the wait from start to finish is about 4-5 years, so we have a bit of time! I just know there's a cild waiting for a happy home, and I think we could give him or her one.

You say you're not in the UK, but in the UK they usually want 2 years between the youngest bio child and the adoptee- with the adopted child being youngest. And you have to be certain that you don't want any more bio children. At least that's the rules I've always heard quoted. As you're not in the UK that may not be relevant.

Oh that's interesting yurt1. They didn't mention it on the phone... WE haven't ruled out having more bio children in the future so that's definitely something we'll have to ask about at the information meeting. I think we'll be going to one in January, we didn't get our names in on time for the Dec one.

If you are not in the UK then much of what we say may be totally irrelevant- the way in which adoption is carried out in the UK is very different from other countries.

You need to think very carefully as to what your motivations are for adopting in terms of what does it mean for your life. Adoptions out of "pity" are viewed with suspicion because actually they can be hugely hard work, and there needs to be something for you at the end of it (ie typically it is your only chance at a family say). Social workers will also look at what the views of your immediate family are, and how supportive they are. They would look at what would happen if you were ill (long-term) or if one of you died say.

The issue of further biological children is an important one, although you do hear stories from infertile couples who adopt and then subsequently conceive. The main issues will surround the fact that you cannot predict how your feelings to subsequent children will affect the adoptee.

In terms of your current "antis", the marriage one can be fixed pretty quickly. The fact that your dp is working ands tudying - I'm guessing means that you wouldn't be looking to adopt soon? Ie you are relying on having 4-5 years? You will know more from your information evening, but that is a suprisingly long time from the decision to adopt (by UK standards). What seems to add to the time in the UK is for infertile couples who have got to have ceased attempting ttc for a specified time, and effectively have had time to grieve over the lack of a natural family. Renting shouldn't be an issue. But your family will need to know and will need to support you. What you say when you are drunk is broadly irrelevant.

Good luck. Hopefully you will find the information evening helpful.

I have also always wanted to adopt. I have a DD who just turned 1 and she is the light of my life. She came along quite unexpectedly and before her I'd always wanted to adopt and always thought I would be happy to just adopt. I am so glad she came along, but I still feel that I would like to adopt, and maybe or maybe not have any more of my own. I certainly don't have any desire to have another baby now but do want to start thinking more seriously about adoption. One of my main issues would be that DP is not as in to the idea as me but is not against it. He is v honest in saying that he'd worry that he didn't love the adopted child as much as DD. Maybe that is already too much of an issue to move forward?

My reasons for adopting are also that I feel I could give a child a loving and secure home, but particularly because I had a turbulent childhood myself, buffered by very loving extended family, which makes me more inclined to devote my love and resources to children that may already need it, rather than to creating more of my own. Maybe some would see that as a warning sign though... I worked in orphanages in South America in my early 20s and realised then that I could certainly be fulfilled maternally by caring for a child that was not my own, and being half South American I would like to adopt from there but that probably makes it a lot more complicated again...

I have a younger birth sister who was adopted by a lovely woman who had a daughter of her own - we are all now united. My sister has put her adopted mother and sister through hell and back with her behavioural and learning problems over the years, which were probably due in part to too much leniency. Underneath it all though, and now that she is growing up, she is a good and confident young woman, from having grown up in a secure and loving home. But it's worth considering the possible unforeseen and perhaps quite significant challenges that you and your family might encounter, and ensure to not let your DD suffer the consequences of those.

Ladymuck, I'm in Ireland so the waiting is usually about 4 to five years from the start, long but there is a shortage of staff so it just takes forever to get anything done.

EZeeDee, I think we possibly feel the same about having more bio children/adopting, good to knowI'm not the only one.

I feel that we are strong enough and stable enough as individuals to be able to cope with the challenges we will encounter. I've never worked in an orphanage, but I can understand how you feel about feeling maternal to any child.

My DP possibly isn't as excited as me about adopting, but he does really want to do it. Have you guys discussed it seriously?

I'd like to think that my DD would benefit from having a younger sibling. Who's to say that a bio child wouldn't have problems, same as an adopted child wouldn't? I suppose there's no way to tell what a person will be like as they grow, but you just have to do your best to nurture and educate them!

You never know, maybe we could end up on this journey together!

x

the one about further bio children is easy to get around though. surely you just say your certain then whoopsadaisy get pregnant. it's not like they can take your adoptee off you is it!!

I have never really considered adoption but would also like you love to give a a home to a child in need of a loving family to be part of ( not assuming its an easy process by any means).

I too live in Ireland Flowermom, and just by coincidence my husband and I were talking about this subject today.

My hub was in a doctors surgery and read an article on children adoption in India, it briefly said that the Indian government are trying to bring about the possibilty of adoption process taking just 45 days!! There are so many babies needeing homes there that a trying to tackle the issue big time. Now whether or not that would ever materialise I have no idea. I will ask him later what the name of the magazine was but it might be worth reading it up.

My husband was so saddened by the pictures of the little babies in there cots, mostly girls and hundreds of them he said.

We already have 4 beautiful daughters of our own and feel so lucky to have them.

I think your kind heart is commendable and what your drunken friend said was heartless and untrue so I would keep on trying and finding out as much info as you could what have you got to loose.

It may be a long process but if it is meant to be it will be, have faith in that.

Good luck would be very interested in what you learn along the way, where had you intended t adopt from?

Flowermum, we are being assessed to adopt a second time at the moment and our SW recommended that we read Adoption Undone as part of our preparation.

I have to say that I find it hard to recommend adoption, especially to people who can have birth children. I found it very tough and I know I wouldn't have been able to stick with it if there had been any other way to have a family.

I also think that there is a difference from the child's point of view between being adopted because their parents wanted a child and being adopted because their parents wanted to be charitable. I find it very hard to put my feelings on this into words, but ds filled a ds-sized gap in our lives. He is giving something to us simply by being there, he is fulfilling our need to have a child as much as we are fulfilling his need to have parents. Adopting because you want to help a child is much more one-sided, it's about the parent being benevolent and the child being reliant on that. I'm not suggesting that anyone would love their adopted child less than their birth child, but the adopted child might feel less secure because his parents didn't 'need' to adopt him.

Also there are quite a few issues that an adoptive child might have that would be very unlikely to occur in your birth child. But that would be covered in your adoption training if you decided to go ahead with it.

Flowermum, I haven't discussed it seriously at length with DP but he knows I feel seriously about it. Yes, who knows, we might end up on similar journeys! I have to remember to log in though, because I'm not a regular MNer

However, what bran said is definitely food for thought, although it saddens me to think that people who can have their own children might offer an adopted child a less secure love, just because they had the choice otherwise, and I don't know if I agree with that. It's not just about being charitable but still about fulfilling something in your own life too, in a slightly different way that a birth child would. But I do agree that one would have to be prepared to face any number of unforeseen issues that you wouldn't necessarily have with a birth child.

Flowermum
I would suggest that you try to find some adoption groups with people who have both biological and adopted DC. We have 3 friends who have both and they have found it very very difficult experiences.
We know one family who have adopted a gorgeous little girl from China and everything is working really well - but in that family there are no biological related children If you know what I mean.
I am not trying to dissuade you but I think it is something you should do with as much information as possible.

EZeeDee I also can't imagine how you would give an adopted child less love, but I'd be interested to meet some people in RL who have been through the process, with bio and adopted children.

This thread has def given me a lot to think about, and is also showing me that not everyone is going to be as excited as DP and I...

I don't think we're doing this because we want to be seen as being charitable, but as two people who want to share their lives with another child, not necessarily biological.

Joedar, we haven't thought of where yet. Judging from the Irish boards, a lot of adoptions seem to be from Vietnam, which is interesting. To be honest the question of where wasn't really high on our agendas. I have a friend who worked in Calcutta, in an orphanage, for a while so it'd be interesting to talk to her about what it's like there. I guess we won't really know till we find out what countries are open and learn a bit more about them.

the letter came in the post this morning for the first info meeting so I guess we'll know more after that!

x

We have an adopted DS although we (presumably) could have had bio children. We adore him and there is no question of our love for him being less secure. Just hope he doesn't read some of this!

Bran,

I totally understand your point but have to disagree with what you say. My husband is adopted and was adopted by a family with 3 older kids, his families main reasons for adopting was to help a child in need and it has over all had no negative effect on him! He feels very lucky to have been adopted into a kind loving family with brother and sisters and feels no way insecure as to why he was adopted. He is jut grateful for all the love and oppurtunitys he has been given regardless of why he was adopted!

Joedar, I didn't realise that your DH was adopted. So i guess you guys would have a lot of insight into how a child would feel. I'd hope that my child would feel the same as your DH, secure and happy in our family. I guess I never thought of that situation coming up, as it never crossed my mind that the child wouldn't be as loved as my bio child. Which is good!

x

Yes Flowermom he is adopted and just as he is glad to have been brought up in a loveing home he also does not feel insecure regarding his mom giving him up for adoption.

He has met her and understands what her reasons for so I guess that helps him be happy with how his life went.

I guess it depends on the individual too though, and I am sure there was times in his life that he wondered( especially as he was half Irish/half african in a typcial Irish family!!) why he was different and why his parents didn't want him, but he never question his adoptive familys want to adopt him.

Good luck with the info meeting let us know how it goes!! Where in Ireland are you?

We are in Cork.

joedar - your DH may not feel the "charity" element of adoption for social reasons and I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean a child if less loved. It may however mean your chld feels less secure. I know people who feel this way in fact one of whom posts on this board and I hope she won't mind me saying that she felt like a charity project (or words to that effect).

No-one is trying to say its a bad thing to do, just trying to point out the potential problems.

I'm afraid I agree with Bran adoption was my final choice because it was the toughest route to a family. By then DS was not just wanted but deparately wanted!

Re overseas - there are no quick routes. India may be talking about shortening the waiting times but at the moment (and for the foreseeable future) it is actually very difficult for a white family with no indian blood/connection to adopt from there at all at the moment.

I think there are more adoption from China and Russia in Ireland than Vietnam but I would have to look up the figures for you.

Security comes from many different aspects and environments in the home and I was wrong to disagree with bran that being adopted into a home would not cause insecutity for a child, each child and family is different so will be affected in different ways.

What I should have said is that this was not the case in my husbands situation and I was just trying to show it from his aspect.

In regards to what you said about choosing adoption as the last option as it is such a hard route? Did you choose to have the baby for your own needs so?? IMO both choosing to have a baby to fullfill your life or to be charitable are both things that are done initially to benefit oneself so how are the outcomes so different? Surely they will create the same insecuritys?

Whatever reason people adopt it is to satisfy a desire in themselves first whether it is to be a mom, to be charitable, to add to a family etc. Just like when people decide to have natural children, there is nothing wrong with that all.

It is great to point out the potential problems to hilight that is not a walk in the park. Its no walk in the park having your own kids either, theese equally come with their issues and insecuritys!

Its such a pity that it takes so long to process theese adoptions. I am not really educated on the subject so I guess its not great for me to be giving any advice. Either way I wish Flowermom the best and think if her intentions are good and she feels it something she would like to do she will work through the issues that come with it.

Ok so I think you've pointed out some very valid opinions here everyone, things that didn't spring to mind when we decided to go for the adoption at first.

i know that adoption isn't the easy route to having a child, and obviously it would be easier for me to try to get pregnant again than to adopt. But that's not really the point. I don't want to label myself as doing it for charitable reasons. I think what bran says about there being a DS size gap in her life fits us too, we want to have another child, and we're open to it being adopted or bio or both.

And I also agree with Joedar, neither bio children nor adopted children are ever going to be a walk in the park, you can never guarantee what kind of adult a child will grow up to be, you can only hope to do your best as a parent and love them either way.

JingleyJen I'd be interested to find out why your friends found the experience difficult. Was it the personality or pre-existing problems of the adopted child? Or the difficulty of the long process?

I'm def getting a lot of food for thought here, which is why I posted in the first place so thank you!

Joedar, we're in Dublin, but I'm from Cork.

x

I think most adoptive parents will get all cautious about it when people say "oh but bio children can have just as many problems" because whilst that is true, statistically the chances of issues of some sort with a child who was adopted are significantly higher.

I can't talk for domestic adoptions but I know for intercountry adoptions, its estimated that about 25% of children have a degree of permanent educational or behavioural special needs. Now obviously that includes very mild special needs. It is also the case that every adoptive child comes with abandonment/attachment problems whereas it is exceptionally rare for bio children (of normal caring families at least!) to have these issues. Again, in some childrne they are mild and easily overcome but can often reoccur in later life and particularly as teenagers.

Most social workers I know say that adopted children all count as having special needs and should be treated as such.

Adult adoptees you may talk to these days were almost all adopted at or near birth and so the issues of attachment, neglect etc were generally avoided but that is rarely the case these days. Unless the child is removed from the birth parents at birth due to eg drug or alcohol abuse, severe neglect/abuse of existing children and in those cases often the chld will have special needs anyway due to drug dependancy at birth or Foetal alcohol syndrome.

I'm really not trying to put you off - truly I'm not but I do get slightly concerned that so many people dismiss the potential problems with a "oh well our birth childrne could have any number of problems too" - yes but you are already bonded to your birth children before the problems arise usually and that often isn't the case with an adopted child and problmes are less likely.

Anyway I do wish you luck and I'm sure that if you choose to go down the adoption route that your social worker will ensure that you are well prepared for the challenges ahead. And yes the rewards as with any other child are enormous - I feel privileged to be allowed to raise DS.

Families created through adoption do undoubtedly face very specific issues partic as has been previously mentioned the chances of getting healthy baby at birth would be very very remote.
Mixed (birthand adopted) families need to be prepared for additional issues. You should be able to make contact with families who have expereince through Adopt UK.
The degree to which these manifest themselves will obviously vary but attachment is something which you will spend some time learning more about during the adoption preparation.
Adoption from India is extremely difficult if not impossible at the current time for those with no Indian heritage at all. There have so far been no announcements that this will change in the near future but when it does it seems people with no Indian connection may be able to adopt older children and those with disabilities.
More information on overseas adoption can be found on www.icacentre.org.uk where there will also be details of the 1 day Preparation Days for those just considering tis option. As has been said it's not for the fainthearted and some of us have had to stay in the country for prolonged periods and of course you would need to consider the impact of this on your other children as well as the time and attention which would need to be given to a child joining your family through adoption (generally a lot more than a child joining the family by birth)
Good luck to you as you start your journey.

My brother was adopted when we were already 3 siblings. No doubt it was difficult for him, but I genuinely believe that having siblings was an advantage, not a drawback. There more people to love him + my parents had that little bit of experience to tell what might be difficulties caused by his background and what was just normal child behaviour. As for my parents feeling different about him because they had biological children, that simply did not happen. Nor do I feel different towards him as compared to my other brothers. Of course, there were difficulties for him in being adopted and brought to another country (poor little soul!), but if that was to be seen as a reason not to adopt, you would have to be able to argue that he could have had a better life if left unadopted. Which I frankly do not believe. Of course, some children do have bad behaviour or attachment issues (he didn't really), but why that should be seen as a reason for leaving them in the place that damaged them I don't know. But it is a reason for checking up carefully on potential adopting parents. And I would have thought a bit of experience would be the best guarantee of being able to cope, though I know adoption agencies don't necessarily think so.
I often wonder why there are so many negative vibes about adoption in this country, while the Scandinavians who have many decades of experience of interracial adoptions seem to be a lot more positive about them. I've spoken to lots of Scandinavian adoptive parents, and though some of them have had serious difficulties, they seem to be quite willing to take them in their stride.

in my experience domestic adoption in this country is generally viewed as a "good thing" but that you will inevitably end up with a mad axe murdering child whereas adopting from anotehr country is often seen as middle class couples buying tiny babies (snatched from the grasp of their poverty stricken parents).

Of course the truth is very different. I am accutely aware that it is not ideal for my son to be brought up in a country thousands of miles from where he was born with people who don't look like him. However it is still a better option for him than remaining in an underfunded institution in Kazakhstan.

Cory, you are of course right that the potential problems should not be a reason to leave children in care in any country however those adopters who have faced some of these problems are very keen to make sure people are aware that it can be significantly harder than you expect at the outset.