Going through assessment, new situation arisen in family

[Namchange3177]

Hi,

I've name changed for this, for reasons which will become clear.

My partner and I are nearly at the end of stage 2, and the assessment has been going really well. Our SW seems very pleased with everything.

Very recently in a conversation with my parents, I was told about a case of historic sexual abuse in my family, perpetrated by my grandfather who lives with my parents. So far as we are aware this took place 50+ years ago. There have been many instances more recently where he looked after young children, including myself when I was younger, with no issues. My parents themselves only found out about this in the last couple of years.

My parents have assured me that even though they believe there to be no risk, they would never leave their grandchildren alone with my grandparents, even for half an hour. My partner and I believe the risk is negligible given how long ago this took place and how old my grandad is now, but we have also decided that we will not leave our child to stay the night there without us.

We are now unsure about what we should do with regards to the assessment. Is this something we need to discuss with our social worker? And if so is there likely to be a big investigation? My partner has suggested they might want to talk to my parents or even my grandad. But given the people affected don't want to talk to him about this, it would seem inappropriate to let him know that this has been discussed in the family. Will this stop us adopting? We have been working towards this for so long and it seemed so close. But honestly I'm terrified.

You have to be totally honest with your Social Worker about this situation. The welfare of the adoptive child is paramount. I speak as someone who has adopted and had a family member, on dhs side of the family, who I had to be totally honest about and I had to reassure social services any child would never have contact with him (I've never even met him myself, and his crimes were not sexual). You have done nothing wrong, it was your grandfather, not you and you have to trust in the decision of the Social Worker, who will know how a situation like this will affect the outcome of your assessment and whether you can continue with the adoption process and if so what measures would have to be put into place to guarantee your grandad never had any contact with the child. The whole situation will have to be investigated further, they can't just ignore something like this and if you withhold this information during your assessment you are being dishonest and it could have repercussions for you further down the line. I realise how desperate you are to adopt, I've been there myself, but the safety of the child must come first. Please, please report this to you Social Worker and don't try to hide it.

I think you absolutely have to disclose this.

Even an allegation which hasn't gone through the courts can be very relevant to risk management. Social work will need to carry out their own assessment of the potential risk, and to be satisfied that you and your family have sufficient safeguards in place to keep children safe from potential harm.

What a bombshell for you to be dealing with at this point in the process.

Before talking to your sw it’s worth thinking about the nature of the allegation - was there any investigation at the time, what was it that’s been alleged against your grandfather and who was involved at that time. Is it a case of an open secret in the family but no one has ever checked out the allegations made, or that everyone is sure it happened but haven’t involved the authorities and have just worked as a family to deal with it? I don’t think not talking about it is an option here tbh, and sw may well want to talk to your parents about it, and may speak to the police about investigating historical child sex abuse, though if the victim hasn’t reported it/doesn’t want to give a statement or denies it they wouldn’t have a case to investigate as such.

I think the idea that there’s no/minimal risk is a bit naive to be honest, especially given you may have children who struggle with their own boundaries and who then need the adults in their lives to be crystal clear on what’s appropriate or not. I’d be thinking now about how you minimise that risk to any child placed with you, which might as a consequence mean limiting contact with your mum if your grandad lives with her. Not staying overnight or not leaving them alone wouldn’t be enough for me tbh, given that I’ve known abusers to touch kids inappropriately in plain sight of their parents.

I too would say you may well need to be clear your future children would never see this man. Not even if you are there.

Thank you all for your responses. As you can imagine this is something of a shock. And even apart from the adoption it is something I've found quite upsetting.

I would have no problem ensuring that my child never meets him. I don't see him that often myself, and they don't live that close so it wouldn't be difficult to arrange it. We could happily meet my parents in the middle (to be clear my parents think his behaviour was horrific).

@Jellycatspyjamas you have raised a good point it being a bit naive to think there's no risk. I think we've all thought that because he babysat me and my cousins, and even some of their children, without any (known) problems it is all in the past. But you are right that as you say the child will need crystal clear boundaries and it would be very easy for an adult to take advantage of something like that.

There is no doubt in my mind that this happened. But the nature of it is a bit unclear. And likely to remain that way. But this was never reported to the police, just dealt with in the family. As I said my mum only found out relatively recently, and she found out from a victim so doesn't know how it was dealt with. But none of the victims will want to go to the police.

What a horrible shock for you, I actually used to work in this field though in the legal team not assessments. You need to tell them and ASAP. It's important to show that you are aware of the risk and will take appropriate steps to safeguard the child.
Not brush things under the carpet.

Also if it comes up in another family member interview or someone independently goes to police/sw they might think you were hiding this and wonder what else's you're hiding

Can't see anything negative being said about you if you're upfront and taking it seriously. Can easily see it scuppering your assessment if you keep it quiet and they find our later,

Good luck it's a hellish long and invasive procedure but worth it!

Thank you all.

I have spoken to the SW. She seemed very shocked by it, and says we will need to discuss it. But she said she's happy that it sounds like we are taking this seriously, so she's not particularly concerned. I think she's happy we can safeguard our child, obviously with discussion about the best way to do that.

Well done, it can’t have been easy making that call, again it shows you are aware of the issues and are taking it seriously. Given the historical context, it wasn’t unusual for these types of issues to be kept in the family and “managed” that in way, if it was recent and your family decided to keep it in the family I’d be much more concerned. Hopefully your sw will be able to pick through it with you - it’s fine to let her know how shocked you are about it too, it’s a huge thing to learn about a presumably loved grandparent, don’t forget to get some support for yourself if you feel the need.

I have been through similar. It transpired that a family member was being charged with looking at beyond vile images halfway through our placement. We knew literally nothing about it and worse still it turned out that the rest of that side of the family were aware and had chosen not only not to tell us but to allow said family member to be around our child. Luckily we never left her alone with him and he only even saw her a handful of times but still ... 😡 It really took some doing to persuade the sw's that we literally didn't have a clue and that this family member wouldn't be laying eyes on our dd ever again. My advice would be to be absolute about your commitment to keeping any future child safe. That will mean doing basically anything ss tell you to and most likely agreeing that grandfather will have literally NO contact with any children not even seeing photos which will probably mean you have to agree to not visitting the house he lives in. Good luck and feel free to pm me. I know how awful situations like this are x x x

It sounds, from what you have updated, that there are multiple victims. I am so very sorry for you, not only having this affect your chances of adoption but to find out this shocking news about your grandfather. Is there any chance your parents can throw him out? Go no contact with him and find him alternative accommodation? That would show Social Services that as a family you all disapprove of what he's done and there is no chance of him ever being around a child. The only other way would possibly be to go no contact with your parents, to show that you disapprove of them housing a sex abuser. Very upsetting I know but in adoption you have to show that the needs and safety of the child come first. How old is he? Are there any other young children in the family, how is there safety being managed around this man? These are all things Social Services will want to know. Again, I am so sorry this has happened and I hope that you can work round this with your Social Worker and find a solution.

Thank you for responding. There's certainly a lot to think about with this. To clarify I believe there were 3 victims, and I know all of them to some extent. Of course we can't say for definite that there weren't more, but from what I've been told I don't think there were.

Yes, it is very shocking and upsetting to me. I have a lot of happy childhood memories about my grandparents. This has tainted them somewhat. @Jellycatspyjamas the SW honestly seemed most concerned about me - just about how upsetting news like this would be (of course she will take the safety of our child very seriously, but given that we don't see my grandparents much apart from once a year, it's not as if they live round the corner and it'll require major disruption to our support network to protect our child). I think I cried when speaking to her on the phone. We're very lucky with her, she has been brilliant.

@Jannt86 it's just horrible isn't it? So hard to find something like this about someone in the family. I'm so sorry you went through this as well. But thank you for sharing.

I probably won't reply to this thread any more. I think finding out about something like this is just really shocking and hard to process. But now that I've told the social worker it is all done. I will do whatever they think we should to protect our child.

This has tainted them somewhat. @Jellycatspyjamas the SW honestly seemed most concerned about me - just about how upsetting news like this would be

Good, I’m glad she recognises how hard this will be to process, you don’t need to make any big decisions just now - he’s not someone you see regularly and you’re clear about protecting your child. I don’t think you need to stop contact with your parents (which would be a huge hit to your support network at a time you really need support), and it sounds like they’ve known for a while and have been happy for him to live with them - I think it’s worth letting this settle for a while, talk it through with your worker and see how you feel when you’re in a better place.

@Jellycatspyjamas all members of my support network who may be called upon to help look after the child had to have DBS checks and so did every adult living with them. My sister was named as my main support, not her husband, but because he lived with her, he too had to agree to have a DBS check, which he did no problem. My mum also had to have DBS clearance and so did anyone over the age of 18 who lived with her. The idea behind it being that if there was an emergency involving me and my dh, or even something as simple as me having to one day ask my mum to pick the child up from school if I couldn't make it, then the child could be looked after by my sister or mum and Social Services would know that everyone living at their house had been checked out. I think this would make it very difficult for the Ops parents to be part of her main support network if they are housing a known multiple child sex abuser. I feel very sorry that this has happened to the Op and none of this is her fault but at the end of the day the child's welfare comes first.

Nobody else in my family had to have a DBS check because they live hours away - but maybe this is the case for single adopters or those with family close by.

No one other than my husband and I needed a DBS type check through the adoption process, I’ve never heard of DBS checks for extended family or support network in adoption.

I'm in Lancashire and adopted through the council. Anyone having contact with the child, particularly if they had to look after them alone had to have a DBS and also anyone over 18 living with them. Maybe it's different in other counties or with private agencies?

I was never asked for a DBS check thought I’ve been looking after my grandchild alone since they were 18 months old (placed at 12 months). I was one of the referees for my daughter and son in law, and I also met with their SW before and after placement. Until now I have never heard of members of a support network being asked for DBS checks.

You have to be honest and be prepared to cut them all off (and demonstrate that) if they request it.

We were told that anyone who could be called upon to look after the child alone and anyone in their household over the age of 18 must have a DBS. Maybe my Social Worker was being extremely thorough or maybe it was Lancashire County Council rules at the time, but I'm not making it up, both my sister and mother and any other adult living with them had to have DBS clearance. My in laws didn't, as they were not local and I wouldn't have asked them to look after the child alone.

Was this a while ago Cally? I heard that previously all e.g. sleepover hosts had to have a DBS but this meant adopted/fostered children had no normal life so it was stopped.

@Ozanj I couldn't agree more with you. This is extremely serious, this family member is a multiple child sex abuser and the op is more than likely bringing an extremely vulnerable child into the family. No matter how great the desire is to become a parent the child's welfare comes first and the Op is going to have to prove that the child will never be anywhere near this this man or the house he lives in.

I think some LA may ask for DBS checks if you are leaving children for childcare with other people before the Adoption order

@drspouse, hi, yes it was 17 years ago so maybe the DBS rules have changed in that time. Yes, it was a pain, everyone having to have DBS checks but luckily my family were all happy to, as they all supported the adoption. I still think this isn't going to be straight forward and that Social Services are going to want to thoroughly investigate grandad and the details of the abuse he's committed, how the family dealt with it etc and more importantly be reassured he never even meets the child. My brother in law is in a secure unit and I had to go to great lengths to prove the child I adopted would never visit him and no photos would ever be sent to the unit as some of the other patients were paedophiles. I was happy to do this, I've never even met him myself. I'm sure if the Op is willing to make this kind of commitment with regards to her grandad, then this shouldn't prevent the adoption.

@Ted27 that's exactly right. My son was classed as a looked after child and still under the ultimate care of Social Services until the Adoption Order had gone through. We weren't even allowed to take him on holiday without asking the permission of Social Services before we'd officially adopted him. Obviously, all these rules may have changed nowadays.

I think the rules are still the same on holidays but even LAC can have sleepovers without a DBS now.