Bad Behaviour at bedtime

[Flora2021]

Hi
So my AD is 5 and a half, and we have had him for 3 years and have always had battles at bed from the beginning. It's been on and off some times the stages are ok and we deal with them other times like now it's horrendous.
So he is fine all day, and the actual getting ready for bed he's again fine brushes teeth, reads books and then as soon as it's ready for bed Bang !! It's like a switch goes and he just goes mad, we have had him trash rooms, run amok all over the house destroying everything in his path, really aggressive behaviour towards us, has hit, spat, punched, kicked everything he can go for about 3 hours at full throttle finally settling down and falling asleep. We have got the school involved and he has social stories. We have done all the usual he's been in our bed to feel secure, we put him straight bk no communication etc over and over!! He has consequence to his actions lost things, days out anything makes no difference. The next day he's very contrite, writes us notes saying sorry and promises he won't do it again and then it starts again. I normally can ride the storm as I normally have an inkling what has happened, a trigger etc but I'm completely at a loss no idea.
Any advice, would be really appreciated 😊

Bedtime is a challenging transition, it can be terrifying if he's going to be alone.

Was he any better in your bed? How long do you stay with him? Until he's asleep? Where is his bed? How far away from yours? He's only little, and he sounds scared.

"Consequences" and punishments will mean nothing, and just cause shame. What do you mean by "no communication"? Why do you think that would help?

Have you accessed post adoption support? Were you taught anything at preparation that could help? I recommend reading "inside I'm hurting" by Louise bomber.

The thing to realise is that when he’s triggered like that he has literally no control over himself and no access to the part of his brain that makes logical choices, so behaviour management will make no difference whatsoever. You need to help him come back down, regulate himself and then try different things to settle him back. He may have no idea at all what’s triggering him, it’s an instinctive response so things like social stories won’t help, because they aren’t in his mind when he’s reacting.

I’d look at the routine and see the point at which he reacts, ie is it getting into bed, you tucking him in, you turning off the light etc. Once you know when it happens try changing things slightly, eg tuck him in with the light off, get into bed with him, have a favourite cuddle toy waiting for him.

If he does react, have things he can do to expel the energy from the adrenaline rush, soft things to throw, water to splash in (don’t empty his bath until he’s settled), a mini trampoline to jump on, he won’t physically be able to settle with so much adrenaline in his system so he needs safe ways to run it off.

Behaviour management isn’t going to work here and will make him feel shameful. When he’s calm talk to him about it, explain you know he’s trying very hard but that something is making him feel very scared at nighttime and you’ll work together to help him feel more safe - ask him for ideas about what that might be. Better if the conversation about bedtime doesn’t happen anywhere near bedtime or in his room.

My 3 have all struggled with bedtime to varying extents. Transitions are hard for them and they have septation anxiety which ramps up at bedtime and makes them feel really scared.

Sticking to our bedtime routine helps as they know exactly what is happening next. But really we had to stay with them until they drop off. At first it was in the room with them sitting quietly in the floor, at first near their beds but slowing over time creeping closer to the door. Wasn't easy with 3 of them but only 2 of us. Then one of us could potter about quietly upstairs until they dropped off, they knew we were close by. Now (nearly 3 years in) we can leave them in their rooms to fall asleep themselves, it just took time.

Some wee things that helped us and we still do are, magic spray (lavender pillow mist) which we spray in their beds together to keep away bad dreams. They each pick a cuddly toy and we sleep with it in our bed to fill it full of our 'love' then it goes back to their bed the next night. They also have Worry Monsters that they can write a note or draw a picture of any worries and the Worry Monster eats it and takes it away. Got to remember to check it every night though. We also put on a talking book at bedtime in their rooms and they love falling asleep to it.

It's frustrating and by bedtime I know I was shattered and desperate for them to just go to bed and sleep and give us some time to ourselves but they were terrified and they needed us. It's so much better now but it took them time to feel safe and know that we weren't going anywhere. Good luck.

They also have Worry Monsters that they can write a note or draw a picture of any worries and the Worry Monster eats it and takes it away. Got to remember to check it every night though.

Worry monsters are great, my boy has a big one that stays at home with mum and a little matching one (key ring sized) that clips onto his school bag - very useful for when school was challenging for him.

@Jellycatspyjamas it may well have been you that recommended Worry Monsters to me! They're brilliant and have helped wee brains process so much in our house. 😘

Hi All

Thanks for the replies, I think just to clarify he has not been like this at bedtime continuously for 3 years , only the last 6 weeks has been this particular bad spell for want of a better phrase.
We have had worry monster he takes no notice, he does have a favourite cuddly toy and his routine is pretty good . He reacts to various things it isn't one particular thing I've light going off that triggers it ,. With the no communication we were advised by support worker bit like the super nanny approach where they get up, you take them straight bk to bed but don't talk at all then repeat repeat !!
He's fine at School, we have asked him countless times about various things he just answer don't know. The school have spoken to him too he says the same thing.
Thanks

Please don't use "super nanny" techniques with a traumatised child. Or any child, really, but especially an adopted child.

Do you do the PACE/PLACE strategies? Have you sought post adoption support? Was the "support worker" qualified to help with adopted/traumatised children?

If it's new behaviour, he's telling you something. It's not "bad", it's communication. The boy sounds scared.

Our son was quite unsettled for a period of months when he moved in here age 7. He would lash out at me, trash the house, draw on his bedroom door, and this could go on for hours some nights. He was basically terrified of being in the quiet on his own. We would read to him, leave the light on, horn him a night light. Nothing really made him sleep or settle any earlier but it did after a good amount of time of consistency. Same routine, time, activity etc. He had a night light that was a big world globe and we used to play ‘find the country/city etc.’ or we would do some quiet art together, a short game. Anything that wasn’t screen related. Honestly it took some time but we got there with consistency x

Gordon Grumpy I don't use a supernanny approach! I was explaining the concept as I believe this is one that is famously used for . Yes I do believe the support worker is qualified, our SW agrees And before people say don't listen to SW etc ours is brilliant and I can not fault her. it is a communication issue but it is also bad behaviour too ,
@Rosebud2005 he likes complete darkness doesn't have lights, night light or anything he likes darkness to sleep .

Apologies for typos there..

It does sound like he’s suddenly become worried by something. It’s fairly common for children around their age, starting school etc to start having thoughts about scary things happening to them, their families, etc. they are beginning to understand things like death and sickness and can actually become quite freaked out by it therefore show their separation anxiety though acting out etc instead of being able to tell us they want us close. This can be their way of showing us they need us close despite the fact the behaviour isn’t particularly inviting. Have you heard of a book called The Huge Bag Of Worries? It’s very good. It helps children to recognise and explain their worries in a way that they are able to process them x

@Rosebud2005 yes I did think that, since starting school definitely more questions and you are right understanding more. I have not heard of it but I will have a look, thank you

It's not "bad behaviour"!

Please use Jelly's ideas to help him regulate. The idea of this little boy having you do "no communication" when he's distressed is so upsetting. No wonder he lashes out.

I think if you are going to frame this as bad behaviour you will struggle to sort this out.
The support worker may well be qualified, your SW may be great. That does not automatically mean they are always right.

Whilst I do feel you need to give new approaches time to work, there is also no point flogging a dead horse. If its not working you need to try something else.
I’m sorry but I also struggle with the idea of no communication in this situation.

“Bad behaviour” is communication in children, he’s communicating something is very upsetting for him. Usual parenting strategies like the ones promoted by folk like Supernanny aren’t appropriate for children with a history of early trauma, and can leave children feeling even more unsafe. I’d echo looking at therapeutic parenting - PACE is good, as is Aha Parenting - because they recognise behaviour as communication and address issues from a place of building safety rather than managing behaviour.

He’s at a developmental age where is cognitive understanding is changing, so things that weren’t so much of an issue come to the fore and bedtime is a key transition in the day so he’ll be processing stuff at that point which may feel overwhelming for him. Children have also had huge adjustments to make this year, lockdown, being in school, out of school, changes in the school environment and school day, parents being home - or not - will all be unsettling. I’ve seen a huge increase in anxiety in adults as lockdown starts to ease and more normal activities resume - if it’s unsettling for adults, it’ll be more so for kids.

It’s likely he doesn’t know what’s wrong or what’s triggering him so can’t explain it verbally - which will be scary for him and frustrating for you. You’ll also be stressed and tired, which just adds to the mix.

Both my two go through phases of difficulty settling to bed and staying asleep - I’ve found I needed to try lots of different strategies, some of which work sometimes, some not at all. Things like having a bath before bed can be soothing but also sometimes is too much for them, sometimes they need a quiet room, sometimes music helps, sometimes having a quiet play time before bed helps, sometimes it doesn’t, reading with them is sometimes fine, sometimes not.

I think me using the Supernanny term has obviously caused some confusion and judging by the replies feathers ruffled too. I only tried the no communication one evening and I didn't think it worked but he wasn't ignored to clarify. I have not tried PACE but will look into this as we have not really needed to look for help etc before. Regarding SW yes there not always right but I'm confident with mine and advice.
Definitely Covid has affected everyone and everything so I do understand how as adults we have struggled so can only imagine what it's like for him and others. We have tried lots of different techniques and do persevere with them but obviously at the moment I have yet to find the right one but I will keep trying . Thanks all

Didn't you learn about PACE at your preparation training? What did you learn there about parenting adopted children?

@gordongrumpy, your last reply comes across as a little confrontational.
We all have our challenges, sometimes it takes a while to find the right approach

@Flora2021 I think its important to remember that its you who is there on the spot, not your SW. Its you who will pick up the subleties of changes of behaviour etc

Its great that you trust your SW and I’m not suggesting you ignore her. Just take her view as one part of the picture.
Keep on going, you will get there

I can imagine @Flora2021 - it’s very difficult when things that have worked before just stop working, sometimes all you can do is ride it out and hope he settles again, and I think all parents find themselves in need of a bit of support from time to time.

@Ted27 you're right.

I am feeling quite upset about this little child being shamed the next day so he writes sorry notes, and being labelled as bad, when he's just trying to communicate his distress. And maybe training varies widely, but I'm surprised anyone in our training could come out and think that was a good strategy. I'm sorry to sound unsupportive to OP, but I feel quite strongly.

Hi,
I obviously don't know his history but I know some children who become very distressed at bedtimes because that has been when 'bad things' have happened and it's worse when they have had a good day because good days and treats were used to prepare the children for being used at night.
I'm not saying your child has had anything like that happen but it's at night that our demons and worries can come out.
Being alone with our thoughts and fears can be terrifying so maybe your LO has something from the past that's being triggered or something from the present that's doing it. Maybe not anything as extreme as I mentioned but being alone with just your thoughts can be very scary.
Could you try doing some drawing with them to remind them they're safe and loved? Our LO is emotionally a few years younger than chronological age so we have used drawing to work through some of his worries. You could maybe draw a picture of your house, your bedrooms inside amd where your bedrooms are to remind him you are close if he needs you. If he's receptive to this maybe even sit down and draw his bed and have him draw him sleeping at night. He might draw some worries or he might get comfort from seeing a visual of him feeling safe.
Sometimes our LO's can't put into words why they're upset. They don't know what triggers them as much as we don't and us telling them they're safe and loved isn't enough. They need to see it.

@gordongrumpy your comments are really patronising and unhelpful. If you don’t have anything positive or constructive to say, better not to say anything.

OP, I have sent you a private message. I can definitely relate to what you are going through and bedtime struggles are one of the most challenging things we go through as parents. I hope some of the comments and my private message help and your little one is able to settle at night soon.

Completely agree Runner31

All behaviour has a reason it is just a case of working out what that reason is. And frustratingly you may never find out what that reason is. You can only work with what you are presented with at the time. We have faced various evolving challenges at bedtime and it is the one time of day I really struggle with however it was and is simply a case of head down and plough through. We still have nights with our AD when she struggles at bedtime and she is 16. And my 14 year old AS needs the same routine every night which involves calling me back in at least once after we have said goodnight, but if that is what they need, that is what they get! Don't beat yourself up about it and fall into the idea this is not how it should be, all children need different support at different times.