Being asked to verify our self reported child care?

[AdoptionWoes]

Currently working through the long list of issues found just prior to panel which led to us being refused to be seen last month, and one of the areas which has now come up has given us cause for concern and wanted to see if anyone else had to do this?

So due to COVID most of our diary of child care experience is self reported, although both my husband and I worked with children when much younger and have employer references, most of our recent child care experience is with my niece and nephew and is self reported.

Our SW wants us to be able to get a referee to verify this experience and we are having a struggle, as for reasons our SW doesn't know (and I don't feel comfortable telling her) my step sister (mother of my niece and nephew) has refused to have any involvement with this process as she had issues with social workers in the past and doesn't want to speak to our one. The only other person who could 'verify' we have looked after them is my mother and I have concerns using her for this as well.

If this is uncommon I will push back on our SW request, if its normal it might be back to the drawing board :(

How detailed is your diary? I kept a childcare log of the informal childcare I did with friends' children during my assessment and wrote about behaviours I'd observed, how I dealt with challenges and reflections after the event so it felt like very tangible learning, and I discussed various bits with my sw. I suppose the discussions around it were the 'verification'. None of the parents were asked to verify it had taken place.

@sunshineandskyscrapers

How detailed is your diary? I kept a childcare log of the informal childcare I did with friends' children during my assessment and wrote about behaviours I'd observed, how I dealt with challenges and reflections after the event so it felt like very tangible learning, and I discussed various bits with my sw. I suppose the discussions around it were the 'verification'. None of the parents were asked to verify it had taken place.

most of ours is like - took niece and nephew to the park today, looked after them overnight on a family holiday, babysat while step sister went for appointment, took them to peppa pig world etc.

we detailed any 'events' which came up, so if they had a tantrum, run off, were upset and how we handled it. We have also gone into a lot of detail around the childcare for my nephew in particular (as he has a trauma past so his behaviours might be more relevant than my niece when it comes to our future child)

I'm just a bit stumped at them wanting to verify it all, as my step sister has refused (and I don't blame her tbh)

I’ve never heard of being asked to keep a log or diary of childcare - is this an English thing possibly? Our sw discussed our childcare experience with us and spoke to our referees who had experience of us around their children but she assessed our suitability based on our discussions with her where we talked (at length) about caring for children of friends and family members.

I think your reasons for not wanting them to contact your family are fair enough - few people with involvement of social workers really want them around again. Do you have anyone else who could comment on you being around children?

This is tricky. I wonder if they're twitched you're hiding something? You say long list of issues- my experience (and I do hope my experience is extremely unusual and abnormal, and just "bad eggs in every profession" and you can ignore me completely) my experience is that once social workers (a social worker) has taken agin you to present a list of issues, you don't stand a chance. It's the "sunk costs" thing, though, isn't it, and having to explain if you try again with another agency that's so difficult.

Do you get the impression these issues are real issues, boxes that reasonably need ticking? Or do you think they're trying to look for a reason to reject you?

I wonder if they're concerned you're not being open about your step sister's opposition, do they think your family don't support the adoption? I think you need to drill down to exactly what they want- do they think you're lying about the childcare? Do they think there's more to it with your sister?

It may sound alarm bells to them if both your mum and sister appear unsupportive, do they know something about you you haven't shared, could be their thinking. I'm not saying that's the case, but I wonder what they're really thinking, and perhaps an honest conversation with them could bring that out?

If I remember right from your other thread, the long list of issues has come from panel members rather than the sw. Is it the case that initially she didn't give a complete enough picture and left a number of gaps. My guess is to avoid being refused by panel she is aiming for absolutely water tight? Do you know what the exact feedback was on this area? That might help you understand what the panel thought was missing and perhaps it can be addressed in another way.

@percypetulant

This is tricky. I wonder if they're twitched you're hiding something? You say long list of issues- my experience (and I do hope my experience is extremely unusual and abnormal, and just "bad eggs in every profession" and you can ignore me completely) my experience is that once social workers (a social worker) has taken agin you to present a list of issues, you don't stand a chance. It's the "sunk costs" thing, though, isn't it, and having to explain if you try again with another agency that's so difficult.

Do you get the impression these issues are real issues, boxes that reasonably need ticking? Or do you think they're trying to look for a reason to reject you?

I wonder if they're concerned you're not being open about your step sister's opposition, do they think your family don't support the adoption? I think you need to drill down to exactly what they want- do they think you're lying about the childcare? Do they think there's more to it with your sister?

It may sound alarm bells to them if both your mum and sister appear unsupportive, do they know something about you you haven't shared, could be their thinking. I'm not saying that's the case, but I wonder what they're really thinking, and perhaps an honest conversation with them could bring that out?

They are issues from panel, not our SW

@sunshineandskyscrapers

If I remember right from your other thread, the long list of issues has come from panel members rather than the sw. Is it the case that initially she didn't give a complete enough picture and left a number of gaps. My guess is to avoid being refused by panel she is aiming for absolutely water tight? Do you know what the exact feedback was on this area? That might help you understand what the panel thought was missing and perhaps it can be addressed in another way.

Yeah I do think she and her manager are being ott after the panel refusal as they have had another 2 hour meeting with my husband to discuss his nan's death, not being harsh but she was 92, it wasn't a 'traumatic' death so not sure why he needed to hash over her death again (in addition to the discussions around this prior to our panel date) this is in addition to everything else we have been redoing atm.

I think I am going to ask her if this is something panel members have explicitly asked for, or whether some raised questions and she thinks a verification is necessary. As if it's the latter I will push back (as her judgment hasn't been that sound thus far)

@Jellycatspyjamas

I’ve never heard of being asked to keep a log or diary of childcare - is this an English thing possibly? Our sw discussed our childcare experience with us and spoke to our referees who had experience of us around their children but she assessed our suitability based on our discussions with her where we talked (at length) about caring for children of friends and family members.

I think your reasons for not wanting them to contact your family are fair enough - few people with involvement of social workers really want them around again. Do you have anyone else who could comment on you being around children?

I assumed it was a general part of stage 1, but maybe it is just England.

We had to fill it out for stage one, and based on that they made the call whether voluntary work with children would be required or not.

Unfortunately my step sister and mum are the only ones who could attest to seeing us with children, as none of our friends have kids yet.

We have both worked with children before and have employer references, but apparently it was too long ago hence this request :(

I am starting to think this is all another test and they want to push us to see how long it takes for us to give up at this point.

I’m in Scotland it’s not a thing I’ve come across here.

I’d simply explain that your mum and step sister are supportive of adoption but don’t want to be involved in the process, hence not giving them as referees. It’s their right not to meet with social workers if they don’t want to.

Most childcare experience is self reported because it’s usually informal care, it isn’t insurmountable by any means. If you have previous work experience those references should be enough - you don’t lose that experience with time. So while your employer might not be able to comment on your readiness to adopt right now, for example, their view of how you interacted with children is definitely relevant.

I wonder if it’s worth you going through your PAR and checking off the concerns raised by the panel to see how they were covered in the report and talking through with the social worker areas you know you’ve already covered and where you think the sw hasn’t used the information given. It may save you going over old ground and may push the sw to do their job properly. The sw will no doubt be smarting a bit - the refusal of the panel to meet you is a clear comment on the sw’s competence - but that shouldn’t be taken out on you.

I’d also check whether the sw is employed by the agency or whether they’re independently contracted. A good number of sw complete adoption assessments as a side job or on a self employed basis, sometimes they aren’t too experienced in completing the paperwork and spend the least time possible on it (because they get paid per assessment rather than an hourly rate if that makes sense), which might explain the shoddy job in the first place.

Can't really help much as we've not got that far yet but we're england and have just moved to stage 2,

We've not had to provide detailed accounts of our childcare experience, in fact we have very limited experience and our sw hasn't mentioned it being an issue (yet??)

Just want to add that we adopted 5years ago in England. Social services requested references from the childcare we did. They wanted my sister for my niece and nephew and they wanted the school where my husband did his experience at the time. So it isn't unusual for them to want proof of this. They made us also have marriage counselling for 4 sessions as a tick box exercise due to an issue we had ironed out 10 YEARS before!!!! And it was a family issue, not anything we had done! They also wanted a reference from the counsellor to prove we had gone. They also forced us to have a 4 month break when a family member (distant) died.

This was all before we got to panel.We had a very experienced SW who obviously knew all the issues panel would have and she made sure she ticked every box. We sailed through panel and they all congratulated us for our determination to adopt as we could have walked away a few times. We nearly did walk away BUT we now have our beautiful daughter and if we hadn't been delayed we wouldn't have been matched with her. It was so traumatic that it put us off adopting again for years. Our daughter is 6 now.

We are now going through the process of being approved again though Current SW is so impressed with how thorough the last report was, the process has taken us 4 months and no issues this time.

Hang in there. If the more experienced SW is saying get the boxes ticked then you have to. If your family are being a problem then you might need to accept that you have to wait until a school lets you in. It WILL ring alarm bells for panel that your family are refusing to take part.

I think it depends on the reason they don’t want to be involved tbh, if someone said to me that their family member had a difficult experience with sw previously (eg going through child protection investigation or the care system as a child), I’d want to explore that to make sure there weren’t any public protection issues to consider but I’d accept it. Having done a lot of public protection work I know that sw isn’t a positive experience for many people and once they’re through the process never want a sw to darken their door again.

If someone was the adult involved in something like cp I’d be worried for obvious reasons. I’d want to explore the impact of the non-involvement and the impact on the person I was assessing but anyone whose been in sw for any period of time would understand some folk are reluctant to be involved with sw in any capacity.

There are folk in my family I wouldn’t have asked and who wouldn’t have wanted to be involved in the process, the difficulty for the OP is her limited references re child care experience.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I think it depends on the reason they don’t want to be involved tbh, if someone said to me that their family member had a difficult experience with sw previously (eg going through child protection investigation or the care system as a child), I’d want to explore that to make sure there weren’t any public protection issues to consider but I’d accept it. Having done a lot of public protection work I know that sw isn’t a positive experience for many people and once they’re through the process never want a sw to darken their door again.

If someone was the adult involved in something like cp I’d be worried for obvious reasons. I’d want to explore the impact of the non-involvement and the impact on the person I was assessing but anyone whose been in sw for any period of time would understand some folk are reluctant to be involved with sw in any capacity.

There are folk in my family I wouldn’t have asked and who wouldn’t have wanted to be involved in the process, the difficulty for the OP is her limited references re child care experience.

My mum is already a referee, however due to how awful her last session was she has said she doesn't want to be involved anymore in the process (done her part kind of thing) so doesn't want to also be a child care referee.

My step sister was very close to having a protection plan put in place, tbh if it wasn't for the support my mum and her dad gave in the early months (to get away from abusive ex) she would most likely be on the birth mum side of this process, which is why she has no interest in speaking to our SW, which I 100% understand and would never push.

@claireb7rg

Can't really help much as we've not got that far yet but we're england and have just moved to stage 2,

We've not had to provide detailed accounts of our childcare experience, in fact we have very limited experience and our sw hasn't mentioned it being an issue (yet??)

that's really interesting, maybe its a county by county thing, as we had to do it as part of stage one homework :s