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SW not happy with our referees (+ more) during PAR

16 replies

quietlyfurious · 01/04/2021 19:11

Hi all,

Sorry, bit of an epic but we're feeling a bit lost and scared by the process. Week 5 of Stage 2 and our social worker visit today was brutal. I know from other posts that it's not a nice process, but it feels like our SW is making this as hard, stressful and unpleasant for us as possible. Our SW has today:

  1. Let us know that she thinks our referees will not be useful to her unless they have seen us interacting with children. We've never been told this before, we put those who know us best with as much childcare as we could introduce:

a) Our childless best friends (who we see once or twice a week)
b) My parents (family reference is required, but no children in my family)
c) Our good friends who do have children and who we see as often as we can.

Our SW seems to have no interest in assessing us as potential parents through any means other than direct evidence of us interacting with children. We do have friends we see less often who have children, but we haven't spent that much time with them nor spoken to them about adoption - do we change for people who we feel don't really know us as well but fit our SW's requirements? I had hoped that the SW would look at us as people with potential to be parents, but instead she seems to be intent on making us feel awful for not already being parents. 10 years of trying for our own children is frankly punishment enough on its own.

We asked our referees over a year ago, so to be told they are unsuitable so late in the process seems frankly incredibly unfair, upsetting for us and also for the referees who we would have to drop.

  1. She expects us to be in continual contact with all of our referees discussing the topics of our meetings (although obviously she doesn't think they're good referees anyway) so that they will be useful to her when she speaks to them. This has never been mentioned before. We're sociable but not the kind to just ring people for a long rangey chat, and with lockdown we haven't been having those kind of in person catchups with our friends where we'd discuss this. It feels like she expects us to have a very stereotypical relationship with our referees (they must have kids, we must go on holiday together, we must have regular, long meaningful chats) and is not happy that our referees don't fit her vision.

  2. We had been considering a sibling group since the start. Last week she told us that we wouldn't stand the chance of getting approval for a sibling group unless we went and got nursery experience (see last week's post), in response I've written emails to local nurseries and sent them CVs for us to try to organise this, but this week she's upgraded that to "as you don't have sole care experience for 2-4 age group you are unlikely to be approved for a sibling group". We're not going to get that from nurseries anyway, so it feels as if she's upped the ante and moves the goalposts every week to mess with us. I don't feel we're in a position to call this out because it seems she already really doesn't like us.

  3. Due to Covid our SW for the PAR is from out of area and is only taking us through to panel at which point we will be assigned to an in-area social worker. In our meeting she talked proudly about "knowing her adoptees" really well during matching and "knowing instinctively what is a good match". This further makes me think that after all this we'll basically be second class citizens in matching to those who have social workers taking them through to matching with established personal relationships. Is there anything we can do to make this better? Are we just screwed from the word go?

Maybe she's testing us, maybe she genuinely thinks we will be awful parents, but questioning our referees at the last minute seems really unfair. They've known who we're putting forward since Stage 1 and it was not questioned or mentioned in our stage 1 report. It feels like she's working to different agenda to our stage 1 SW and we've just not been given the right information running up to this. We also don't have any other adopters to talk to as we've done every course and meeting virtually because of lockdown, so we don't even know if this is normal.

Any advice on how to handle all this would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
UnderTheNameOfSanders · 01/04/2021 19:21

My experience is 15 years old, but this sounds nuts.

We had family references, long term known us references, and references with kids (who were asked 'would you be happy to leave your kids in their care').

We didn't particularly discuss our homestudy visits with our referees. They were asked how they knew us, what we were like, any concerns etc. They didn't need to know the ins and outs of the homestudy.

Is there an 'in house' supervising SW you could ask to ring you for a chat?

scully29 · 01/04/2021 19:34

You should totally join in to the Prospective adopters meet ups on Adoption UK they are so helpful! Since your already in stage 2 it does sound like it wouldnt make sense to delay you for no reason? Maybe it is a good thing that everything gets addressed now rather than not getting through panel perhaps? Both of our references were not close distance wise so we just added another, is there another you can add that suits the sw idea?? Could help to add any references you can?

AncientEmo · 01/04/2021 20:02

This does sound nuts tbh. Some SWs are better than others, that's for sure. We had almost no childcare experience apart from babysitting, only one of our referees had seen us with a kid... And it was fine?! We didn't talk about our meetings with them. I'd also question your SW's wisdom in getting you into nurseries during a pandemic, where many prospective adopters (afaik) have had these requirements softened because it's so hard to get into a nursery.

Idk what you should do here, is it worth sticking with this SW to get through the process?

JohnPA · 01/04/2021 22:50

The answer is no, it is not normal. It seems you were paired with a social worker who is bloody difficult and who is not supportive. You have two choices here. Either you stick to the process and push back or concede to her demands, or you get in touch with her manager to explain the situation and request a different social worker, as the current one is obviously not being very reasonable. None of my referees (beyond my parents) had children or knew me with children. Referees should be people who know you well, not people who have children. My social worker did say that we needed to obtain more childcare experience and both of us volunteered on a weekly basis for about 6 months with children with special needs. Our social worker was also obsessed with us adopting a little girl, but we ignored her and when it came to the matching stage we just went ahead and applied to adopt siblings and explained our reasons to her. This must be an incredibly frustrating situation for you. You need to be aware that the matching process is a lot more stressful than stage 2, so I think it’s important that you have a social worker who you get along with to a reasonable level and who understands you.

Jellycatspyjamas · 02/04/2021 07:17

That sounds very odd, she does need to have an idea of how you might be with children but that usually comes through discussion with you. It’s helpful if your referees have seen you around children and can comment on that, I’d have thought though your friends would be good for that?

She sounds a bit know-it-all, and a bit ego drive (“I know instinctively what makes a good match...”) and very dogmatic. You could arrange a meeting with her and her manager to raise your concerns, ask for a change in sw or continue to pick your way through the process with her but if she’s already saying she won’t support your application for sibling adoption I’d change because you’re going to keep coming up against that attitude. There’s no reason why you wouldn’t be approved for sibling adoption - few people have sole care of kids in that age group unless they’re their kids.

Bananahana · 02/04/2021 08:16

She sounds sharsh. We’re approved for two and neither of us have direct sole childcare experience.

quietlyfurious · 02/04/2021 10:09

@Jellycatspyjamas

That sounds very odd, she does need to have an idea of how you might be with children but that usually comes through discussion with you. It’s helpful if your referees have seen you around children and can comment on that, I’d have thought though your friends would be good for that?

She sounds a bit know-it-all, and a bit ego drive (“I know instinctively what makes a good match...”) and very dogmatic. You could arrange a meeting with her and her manager to raise your concerns, ask for a change in sw or continue to pick your way through the process with her but if she’s already saying she won’t support your application for sibling adoption I’d change because you’re going to keep coming up against that attitude. There’s no reason why you wouldn’t be approved for sibling adoption - few people have sole care of kids in that age group unless they’re their kids.

So our best friends haven't really seen us with kids because they don't have any, and my parents haven't because my sister has no kids either, but our friends who do have kids have seen us interact lots because we used to see them pretty regularly and I'm a godparent to one of their kids. Sadly they moved about 18 months ago and they are now 4 hours away by car, which has damaged our ability to show a strong local support network with childcare experience.

I think our SW has decided we don't have the support network or experience to do this, but she does take every opportunity to put us in our place and explain how much she knows about caring for adopted children when she asks questions. We don't feel any support at all from her, I can't recall a time she has said anything positive to us and I'm finding it hard to deal with her questions because it feels like she's constantly trying to catch us out. She started our very first meeting saying that she didn't think we could deal with early permanence because of the amount of IVF we did, and we would "have to convince her" that we could. She now seems to believe we can't do that or a sibling group. My partner works in paediatrics and deals with children every day and is so fantastic with children, but we're told this is not relevant as it's not "sole care experience" and that "parenting is completely different". We absolutely understand being a parent and working in paediatrics is not the same, but surely working with difficult, autistic, ADHD and sick children of all ages on a daily basis should count for something?!

I don't want to make a fuss and be "those people" or have to start again, but I thought in some ways the social worker was supposed to advocate and support you, but it's like having an adversary turn up every week to further diminish our hopes and demonstrate how much more she knows than us.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 02/04/2021 11:48

My partner works in paediatrics and deals with children every day and is so fantastic with children, but we're told this is not relevant as it's not "sole care experience" and that "parenting is completely different".

With the greatest of respect, nothing is like parenting, not playing with friends children, not having kids for a sleepover, not babysitting and certainly not volunteering with children. If parenting experience were required most people wouldn’t adopt because most people coming to adoption aren’t parents. She’s so far off beam on this it’s ridiculous. If sole care experience were required most people wouldn’t adopt because unless you have kids you don’t tend to have experience of kids without their parents present or at least at the end of a phone.

How many adopted children has your sw actually cared for - I don’t mean working in residential care, which is a totally different thing again. In her thinking unless you’ve done it, you can’t show that you can do it which is utterly ridiculous.

I don't want to make a fuss and be "those people" or have to start again, but I thought in some ways the social worker was supposed to advocate and support you,

Absolutely this, your social worker should be able to challenge you of course, but they should also support you to look for your existing strengths and help you build on those, they should also be positive about your intention and your capacity to care for children otherwise what’s the actual point. You need to feel that they are on your side, that they will represent you well and that they can see your potential as parents and are positive about what you have to offer. The challenging part of the process will always be there and the relationship with your social worker may need to be quite robust but that’s not what you’re describing.

Is it possible she’s intimidated by your partners job role? I can’t think of any other reason for her behaviour which sounds very “I’m going to put you in your place”. Some sw can be very threatened by folk with a perceived social standing - it’s wrong but it does happen.

I’d be deeply concerned that your only facing barrier after barrier here, there’s nothing in what you’ve said that would concern me about your childcare experience - your referees sound ideal to me; family members, friends who know you well and friends who know you with children. The reality is you build your “child friendly” supports once you become a parent by meeting other parents with children at the same age and stage. Folk I thought would be a strong support for me have been disastrous and people I barely knew have been fabulous. The whole point is, your life will change, your social circle will change - you’ve not gone through that change yet. In early placement the people who were the biggest support to me were the people I could phone at any point for a cry and a moan. The rest has built as I’ve become more settled and more involved with school etc.

I’d write out your concerns, as you’ve done here, and ask for a meeting with your manager, if you don’t get anywhere I’d seriously look at changing agency, some may accept you into stage 2 rather than starting again.

The process should be challenging, it shouldn’t be souk destroying. At this stage I’d expect you to have a positive sense of the value you can bring to parenting children.

And the IVF stuff is nonsense. If you’re meeting her again each time she makes that kind of nonsense statement I’d ask her to explain what she means, clearly, and start unpicking it. It doesn’t need to be rude but, for example “you sound like you’re really knowledgeable about parenting adopted children, is that something you’ve done or is it just part of your training”.

Italiangreyhound · 03/04/2021 10:57

Your social worker sounds crackers and I agree with Jelly a massive ego re 'i know a good natch'. All crazy.

Whatever you decide to do keep a clear paper trail/email trail because it sounds like your social worker is nuts. Be very polite etc through this.

Good luck

Italiangreyhound · 03/04/2021 11:00

@JohnPA why do you think your social worker was obsessed with your adopting a little girl? I thought the idea was to be open etc. Well done for not buckling under pressure and making your own choice. Flowers

JohnPA · 03/04/2021 11:12

Well we are a male same sex couple and in her head she thought a little girl would be perfect for us (I blame Modern Family for creating this stereotype 😅). She was quite vocal about. At the end, we adopted three boys.

Italiangreyhound · 03/04/2021 18:39

Oh John that is so awful for a social worker to plan your family like that!

Jellycatspyjamas · 03/04/2021 20:29

That’s appalling @JohnPA and having read your posts here your little group of boys sounds fabulous.

Italiangreyhound · 04/04/2021 01:04

JohnPA - Just read up about Modern Family!

RoomForMore · 05/04/2021 07:31

Definitely be that person who asks to speak to her manager! The process is stressful enough without feeling you're on a different team to your social worker. We had a different social worker get us to matching panel than the one who got us through approval panel, but both were fantastic and very encouraging.

Speak to someone higher up, tell them your concerns and ask if there is anything else you should be doing at this point. I went to the manager over a couple of issues and found her so helpful. I hope you can get this resolved Flowers

RoomForMore · 05/04/2021 07:33

@JohnPA I love Modern Family! I wonder if 3 boys are easier or harder than Lily Grin

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