Panel refused to hear us?! help

[AdoptionWoes]

I am just in such a spin at the moment and wanted to reach out and see if any other adopters have gone through this before, as our SW has said she has never had this happen and it seems rare from her perspective but hearing from others might make us feel less awful.

This coming Friday we were due to go to panel, we found out yesterday that after reading through our PAR they are refusing to hear us at panel due to several 'concerns' which is confusing since we had a lot of eyes on our PAR, a second opinion and even the head of the LA's adoption services looked over it and said it was ready.

On the one hand, I agree with our SW who said to be honest this is better than turning up and getting a deferral or a split panel, but it's just so confusing, we are getting so little information from the LA who has said it could be weeks until we know what these mystery concerns are. What's worse is we had been provisionally lined up an EP match, spoken to the family finder etc. and it was all due to go ahead after panel which now isn't going to happen. Our SW's manager has said although she doesn't know what the concerns are, as there are many she can't see us being back at panel for another 3 months! so this EP placement is definitely out since the baby is due in 4 weeks :(

So I am just wondering if anyone else has gone through this and could offer some advice or guidance on what the process is? or if any social workers are on here is this normal?

I've heard of this happening. As far as I'm aware it's usually when the social worker hasn't "done the job" properly. IE hasn't explored something concerning in enough detail, or hasn't recommended you do something. Basically by the time it gets to PAR, every single tiny concern should have been addressed. It could be something like "have you explored a bereavement?" Is there anything unresolved? It doesn't have to be a huge thing.

Shitty for you though! Have you had any thing happen in your life that perhaps should have been discussed? Our social worker made us have couples counselling for an incident that happened (involving family, not us) so that she could tick it off the list for panel! We gained nothing from the counselling, did 3 sessions but it was a box ticked.

What are the sticky areas of your PAR, for the panel to refuse to see you I’m guessing there must be something fairly fundamental that hasn’t been fully explored. That could be things like previous relationships, mental health issues, financial concerns, physical health, previous adversity etc etc. While you might not know their exact concerns, you’ll know the areas that would raise questions at panel.

Try to relax, wait to hear and accept that sadly this little one might not be for you - is it possible the PAR was rushed to accommodate this match and maybe not be thorough enough?

@Jellycatspyjamas

What are the sticky areas of your PAR, for the panel to refuse to see you I’m guessing there must be something fairly fundamental that hasn’t been fully explored. That could be things like previous relationships, mental health issues, financial concerns, physical health, previous adversity etc etc. While you might not know their exact concerns, you’ll know the areas that would raise questions at panel.

Try to relax, wait to hear and accept that sadly this little one might not be for you - is it possible the PAR was rushed to accommodate this match and maybe not be thorough enough?

Apparently all they have so far is our engagement (which I am assuming is engagement with the process not how my husband proposed!) and relationships, but our SW did say they could come back with more as apparently 8 panel members had read it before it was recalled and they all had issues, along with the panel chair!

Its just frustrating, as 5 people at the LA reviewed our PAR, our SW, her manager, her managers manager, the head of adoption services and the second opinion SW - all said it was good to go, the second opinion SW didn't even see anything to question :(

Our PAR took a while to make as we finished all our sessions back in November so I'm not sure if it was rushed but could well be if they tend to take longer than that to write up :s

@TickeryTockeryToo

I've heard of this happening. As far as I'm aware it's usually when the social worker hasn't "done the job" properly. IE hasn't explored something concerning in enough detail, or hasn't recommended you do something. Basically by the time it gets to PAR, every single tiny concern should have been addressed. It could be something like "have you explored a bereavement?" Is there anything unresolved? It doesn't have to be a huge thing.

Shitty for you though! Have you had any thing happen in your life that perhaps should have been discussed? Our social worker made us have couples counselling for an incident that happened (involving family, not us) so that she could tick it off the list for panel! We gained nothing from the counselling, did 3 sessions but it was a box ticked.

Thank you for this, helpful to know its not just us its happened to (although still doesn't remove the annoyance, helps with the concern!)

All the areas I thought it could be (our childcare experience and potentially my husband mental health) wasn't mentioned so I'm confused. The only areas we have heard about so far is our engagement and relationships which have come out of left field.

If a number of panel members have concerns, it’s likely to be something pretty obvious. I’m wondering if the various people you mention did actually read it before it was sent out - it wouldn’t be normal process for anyone beyond the sw who wrote it, their manager and possibly the second line manager to read a PAR before panel. The fact that so many people read it ahead of time suggests they knew there might be tricky areas at panel but thought it was worth the try.

What did you think when you read the PAR, did you feel it accurately reflected you as a couple, did you think your level of engagement was adequately reflected in the document?

@Jellycatspyjamas

If a number of panel members have concerns, it’s likely to be something pretty obvious. I’m wondering if the various people you mention did actually read it before it was sent out - it wouldn’t be normal process for anyone beyond the sw who wrote it, their manager and possibly the second line manager to read a PAR before panel. The fact that so many people read it ahead of time suggests they knew there might be tricky areas at panel but thought it was worth the try.

What did you think when you read the PAR, did you feel it accurately reflected you as a couple, did you think your level of engagement was adequately reflected in the document?

In the PAR there wasn't much mention of our engagement, just that we went to x prep training, but this is where I was wondering whether panel get more than just our PAR, as the social workers conducting the training did a report after each session, so didn't know if they get a copy of this (that we don't see, like our reference interviews which we don't see :s)

When reading it, honestly there was nothing that stood out, regarding so many people reading it, apparently it was a debate whether to get a second opinion which is why it went to so many people, and the head of adoption services said it wouldn't hurt, but then the second opinion SW didn't have any questions or concerns so went to panel anyway. I'm just baffled how so many people whose job it is to make sure this doesn't happen saw it and had nothing to say but within a day of getting our PAR several panel members had concerns

Are you sure they sent the right report. Our SW sent the unsigned first draft.

You should see everything that goes to panel except your references, because they’re given in confidence.

While the PAR might not explicitly talk about your engagement, it’s fairly easy to get a good sense of how you engaged in the process through the level of detail and discussion in the report. The panel should have clear feedback for you (or your social worker if the issue is the way they’ve reported the work you’ve done with them), but for it to come back without seeing you suggests its more than they could cover in a few questions at panel.

If sw were swithering about a second opinion, I’d suggest they knew there were potential issues but hoped to get away with it.

@rose69

Are you sure they sent the right report. Our SW sent the unsigned first draft.

Oh my, didn't even think to ask! Will double check today with our SW just in case - thank you

@Jellycatspyjamas

You should see everything that goes to panel except your references, because they’re given in confidence.

While the PAR might not explicitly talk about your engagement, it’s fairly easy to get a good sense of how you engaged in the process through the level of detail and discussion in the report. The panel should have clear feedback for you (or your social worker if the issue is the way they’ve reported the work you’ve done with them), but for it to come back without seeing you suggests its more than they could cover in a few questions at panel.

If sw were swithering about a second opinion, I’d suggest they knew there were potential issues but hoped to get away with it.

thank you for all your help in this thread, I suppose for now its just a waiting game to see what comes back and what else we need to cover :(

Oh this sounds really hard. Very sorry. Hope it is all sorted out soon.

update - have had the list of concerns and its as long as my arm :(

looks like we will be back to the drawing board!

So sorry to hear that. Were they things you felt were already addressed or unexpected things? Has your SW given you feedback on how to address the list?

It sounds like the SW who assessed you haven't done their job properly and failed to explore important areas thoroughly.

I agree, there shouldn’t be a long list of issues in a report that’s allegedly ready for panel.

Are the issues easily resolved - by which I mean have there been discussions that just need to be expanded on or are there things in there that you weren’t expecting? Is the same sw going to do the rest of the assessment?

@Somuddled

So sorry to hear that. Were they things you felt were already addressed or unexpected things? Has your SW given you feedback on how to address the list?

out of the 21 issues only 2 were not a big surprise (still somewhat of a surprise but I thought if it was anything it would be these 2 areas!) the others are very out of left field including a new medical advise report etc.

They haven't given any feedback on how its going to be addressed but they have said they think 6 more sessions should do it

@Jellycatspyjamas

I agree, there shouldn’t be a long list of issues in a report that’s allegedly ready for panel.

Are the issues easily resolved - by which I mean have there been discussions that just need to be expanded on or are there things in there that you weren’t expecting? Is the same sw going to do the rest of the assessment?

I think maybe 10% of the issues are easier to resolve, as in I think we have already covered them and our SW just needs to put more info on those areas in the PAR, the others are still very unknown for us so not sure how easily they can all be fixed.

Out of the 21 issues only 2 were 'expected' as in after being told we were refused those two areas were the ones I thought out of everything it could be, the rest however are so out of left field its quite shocking :(

The same SW will be continuing as we have already had one SW change early on and they have advised its best to stick with the same one as she has most of the information needed to flesh it all out

Six sessions is quite a lot tbh, most homestudies are done over 10-12 sessions so she’s missed a lot and that should absolutely have been picked up by others reading the PAR. The reports are pretty prescriptive about what needs to be included - I’m sorry you’ve had such bad work, so very unprofessional.

I had to have further conversations around my miscarriages as SW hadn't explored it enough. So that was nice. One of the other issues was that we had mainly 'white' friends and family. We had 2 new, young social workers. It was horrendous. Good luck. Its hard.

This all sounds awful for you and unfortunately it seems to happen all too often. One of my friends adopted as did I and we both had horrendous experiences for different reasons. She had a similar situation too where her SW put them forward for panel and then they were unexpectedly turned down. They appealed but it took months and a lot of that time was spent worrying and chasing decisions etc which kept taking way longer than they should have. They stuck it out though and eventually adopted a beautiful child. We on the other hand sailed through panel and were quickly matched only to have drama a few weeks into the placement. The drama was over a family member who'd commited crimes we were totally unaware of until they told us. We hardly spent any time with this family member and knew they were a total loser anyway and we made it very clear that we wouldn't ever be breathing the same air as them again never mind giving them any contact with dd but we went through absolute hell and sw's did everything they could to make the biggest deal of it they possibly could and make us feel like we were being dishonest with them. I think they knew deep down that we were completely uninvolved in the above mess and were being honest and they had nothing but praise on how we were looking after our dd. They clearly didn't do enough to persuade the judge that we were totally unlinked to the above mess either as he rejected our first AO application. Again though it all worked out in the end and our dd is now our dd. I still have what I'd say is a bit of PTSD from it though and it has at times affected my relationship with dd although we're on the whole happy. Unfortunately SW's do have the power and you just have to smile and play the game a bit even when you think they're being unfair or downright ridiculous. Stick to your guns and fight til the bitter end. Do everything they ask with a smile then write the biggest letter of complaint and take it as high as you can once this is all over. Adoption SW's have one job and that's to decide whether panel will accept you and write a PAR that'll convince them to accept you. If they can't even do that right then they need to be held responsible for that. Good luck. It's so upsetting but you might well get there in the end and when you do it'll all be so worth it when you do xx

It really was an awful time, to sit and discuss the pain I had gone through on great detail to an inexperienced woman who had zero empathy. But we got there, we got our beautiful boy. So try and stay strong, however you can do it fight with a smile through the obstacles put in your way. We had the last 'laugh" though, as all through the assessment and even when we were turned down the SW's were still adamant they were coming to the celebration day. A week before the day when I realised I had a choice, I sent an email telling them they weren't invited. I couldn't face seeing them on our special day and them taking the glory. That felt good.

AdoptionWoes, I am so sorry to hear this for you. It's one thing being at the mercy of other people for your future and another thing altogether when those in a position of power aren't doing what they should be doing as a matter of course. For there to be 21 issues to come back from your PAR is ridiculous, as others here have said your SW should be almost playing devil's advocate and making sure that any potential panel questions or concerns are properly addressed and explored so they're either dispelled, or panel can be satisfied they've been thoroughly explore and addressed with you.

I want to say that I hope you're doing ok but suspect that this is feeling overwhelming for you. I'm just so sorry you've had to experience this.

Misspollyhadadolly92 - to hear 'zero empathy' both saddens and doesn't surprise me at the same time, such a sad indictment on the profession. And so unfair both for those of us on the other end of such experiences, and for those SWs who do their absolute best for children and families; more should be done to root out those (in my opinion) not up to the job at training level I think. Am glad you were able to celebrate your day happily.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Six sessions is quite a lot tbh, most homestudies are done over 10-12 sessions so she’s missed a lot and that should absolutely have been picked up by others reading the PAR. The reports are pretty prescriptive about what needs to be included - I’m sorry you’ve had such bad work, so very unprofessional.

I could understand if we didn't still do loads of meetings as part of stage 2, we have been in stage 2 since march last year and had well over 16 meetings! gah got my first working through the issues meeting next week so will get there in the end...I hope

@Misspollyhadadolly92

I had to have further conversations around my miscarriages as SW hadn't explored it enough. So that was nice. One of the other issues was that we had mainly 'white' friends and family. We had 2 new, young social workers. It was horrendous. Good luck. Its hard.

I'm sorry you had to go through all that again, we also have the issue of being too white which tbh not sure how we can fix it!

@Giovanna1712

AdoptionWoes, I am so sorry to hear this for you. It's one thing being at the mercy of other people for your future and another thing altogether when those in a position of power aren't doing what they should be doing as a matter of course. For there to be 21 issues to come back from your PAR is ridiculous, as others here have said your SW should be almost playing devil's advocate and making sure that any potential panel questions or concerns are properly addressed and explored so they're either dispelled, or panel can be satisfied they've been thoroughly explore and addressed with you.

I want to say that I hope you're doing ok but suspect that this is feeling overwhelming for you. I'm just so sorry you've had to experience this.

Misspollyhadadolly92 - to hear 'zero empathy' both saddens and doesn't surprise me at the same time, such a sad indictment on the profession. And so unfair both for those of us on the other end of such experiences, and for those SWs who do their absolute best for children and families; more should be done to root out those (in my opinion) not up to the job at training level I think. Am glad you were able to celebrate your day happily.

thank you for this, its honestly tiring at this point, we have had such a shitty time so far already and this was the cherry on the sadness sundae, we've had panel dates pushed back twice then the refusal, changes in social workers due to our first one being extremely bad so am just tired of it all at this point.

I've had some really nice gifts today from some of my co-workers with 'hopefully your last mothers day without children' type messages which was nice and I needed it to be honest, to remember what I'm striving for.

We have the first set of meetings to address these issues next week, and it seems our SW is conducting all of them with her supervisor which hopefully makes a difference.