claiming

[fodderycovidarmy]

@percypetulant please could you link your sources in relation to the well accepted concept of claiming in adoption which you refer to on another thread - you said on that thread I've googled, and the concept is well explained by various sources please could you link. Thank you very much.

If any other adopters would like to add their sources I would be grateful.

What are your questions about the benefits of a child being claimed?

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=adoptionsupport.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/08-Entitlement-and-Claiming.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiXwevhw4jvAhURiFwKHRchCAcQFjACegQIGhAC&usg=AOvVaw3AVnkBJJGJ8E3984fOCtWm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=adoptionsupport.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/08-Entitlement-and-Claiming.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiXwevhw4jvAhURiFwKHRchCAcQFjACegQIGhAC&usg=AOvVaw3AVnkBJJGJ8E3984fOCtWm

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/f_transition.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiXwevhw4jvAhURiFwKHRchCAcQFjAUegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw2PwJIWEe0GmC7ehJ1qx1pQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/f_transition.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiXwevhw4jvAhURiFwKHRchCAcQFjAUegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw2PwJIWEe0GmC7ehJ1qx1pQ

Are some of the first hits on Google on this topic. I'm sure it will have been mentioned at adoption training, and in your background reading. The concept of adopted parents claiming their children is accepted as promoting attachment and positive relationships, and stability.

What are your queries?

@fodderycovidarmy

what is the issue here. You taken one comment from a very complex debate and seem intent on pursuing it with no apparent explanation as to why.
You do not appear to be an adopter, you havent said you are interested in adopting.
i’m sure you are more than capable of doing your own research on sources, I’ve got better things to do.

@fodderycovidarmy, in fairness when I googled “claiming” and adoption in all its combinations I just got information about financial support and adoption leave/pay so it’s maybe not such a straightforward search but the concept is well understood in adoption.

Like @Ted27 I’m unsure about why, in a discussion with numerous fairly complex concepts you’d pick up on a single comment about “claiming” for further discussion. The links @percypetulant has provided are a good start and have pointers to further reading, so hopefully that will satisfy your curiosity.

On the other thread, one poster explained what they wanted out of adoption and a number of posters explained why what they wanted was not putting the needs of the child first, and I agreed with the responses but did not feel it would help to add my comments to the number of comments already made, mostly saying the same thing.

One comment did jump out at me as misunderstood - "a child needs to be claimed" - but I wanted to make sure I understood fully what has been meant before commenting, and asked a simple question. It seems to be a concept spoken about a great deal in adoption circles but there are no resources, or at least, none provided so far, in relation to how it relates to a need of a child.

The first link upthread was to do with adoptive parents' needs

The second link was about children's needs but not about "claiming" unless I missed it

There was no further reading about "claiming"

To any poster thinking that this is some not relevant, in fact it is, as it relates to properly understand the needs of adopted children properly.

If you don't know the answer and cannot easily provide sources, then that is okay.

Thank you for the input so far.

I still think you're sealioning. What are your questions about the concept? What is your interest in adoption?

I have to say I'm an adopter and I've never heard of this either, it sounds important but never came up in prep training.

@percypetulant I asked a simple request to attach links, and have said it was fine if you couldn't, and therefore I am clearly not sealioning.

If anyone can tell me where exactly the concept of "claiming" comes from with reference to benefit to the child, then please could you post. Resources would be even better.

If not that is fine.

Thank you.

What is your interest in adoption?

Are you a name changer OP?

What is your interest in adoption? are you sealioning percypetulant?

I don't want a discussion or debate or to prove anything one way or the other, or answer your questions about the colour of my underwear, I would just like to know more about where the idea of claiming has come from. An adopter has also asked for more information.

I understand you have said that it is to do with forming attachment, but if so I would expect there to be more information available about it online.

Actually, I give up. I will contact one of the adoption organisations instead.

percypetulant I think you have a lot of anger which is being displaced. I think you could do with some counselling to explore why.

Oh, gosh, an unqualified stranger on the internet thinks I need counseling! Pmsl.

I think researching these issues offline first is an excellent idea. Best of luck.

And I feel like this thread could be used in a "what is sealioning" tutorial.

@percypetulant

Oh, gosh, an unqualified stranger on the internet thinks I need counseling! Pmsl.

I think researching these issues offline first is an excellent idea. Best of luck.

You sound quite lovely.

I also have never heard of claiming during any training etc and would be interested to read more!

I'd recommend the book Real Parents, Real Children: Parenting the Adopted Child, by Holly Van Gulden and Lisa M. Bartels-Rabb. I don't know if this is the original source of the term 'claiming' but it does have several references to it within a broader context of building attachment and parenting adopted children.

I had a good look at the first link posted above in the end and to the suggested further reading in it, and subsequent links, and it looks as though it is a US concept, conceived in the late nineties/early 2000. That might be why it doesn't feature in current UK training?

It looks as though it is about helping adoptive parents feel like real parents and encouraging them to parent, confidently and competently. It has examples of competent parenting in the first link, and things to think about if you start not feeling "permission" to parent, which are quite wideranging. The link to attachment is that if you do not parent confidently and competently, then that is likely to affect attachment. All of this, set out in the first two pages makes sense, but I do think the chosen words to signify the concept - entitlement and claiming - are slightly unfortunate as it makes it sound as though the child is a piece of lost luggage. And the word "entitlement" often has negative connotations.

However, the final page recommendations in the same link sound slightly misconstrued. Here it is recommended that the adopter creates connection with her child by saying "you look like uncle bob, my brother" or "you draw like aunty joan" - I think that for good MH children need to understand and learn to cope with reality and truth, and I think that this sounds too contrived and invented and as though it could be confusing and unhelpful for a child. As far as I can see there haven't been any studies about its positive (or negative) affect?

I think that like many adoption concepts, this concept is at risk of being lost in translation or misapplied.

Another example is changing the child's name to "claim" - in the US there are arranged adoptions where the birth parent chooses the adopter, and in some cases it is arranged that the adopter will choose the child's name, and this sort of scenario would never happen in a UK adoption as birth parents do not choose the adopter. A concern is that sometimes the child's needs will be different from the adopter's needs. The forums I found about "claiming" were mostly about adoptive parents not "feeling" like a parent and what they could do to help themselves "feel" better.

I think saying "a child needs to be claimed" might be an extrapolation too far, based on what I read.

The book recommended by @sunshineandskyscrapers was one of those recommended in the link and it sounds interesting to read though it is quite old (1995) and therefore in part might be out of date?

What us sealioning ???

google says "confrontational practice of leaping into an online discussion with endless demands for answers and evidence"

Nothing is being achieved here, why don't you both just let it go

@ted27 I knew literally nothing about where claiming had come from before reading the links on this thread, and more than one adopter has said similar things. It is important and relevant. And interesting, I think.

Bit dated now and possibly somewhat contentious thread and I've no desire to stir that up; but did want to add my thoughts if that's ok...

I don't have any particular resources re claiming and can't really quantify where my thoughts are on the process or indeed, if they're correct even; but they're my thoughts so for what it's worth...

Claiming to me links into identity and a sense of belonging, not just for children who are adopted but an inherent human need in many of us (not all, of course). So for me as a mother through adoption it represents for me the balance between acknowledging, valuing and respecting my child's origins and history whilst also firmly grounding them and engendering that sense of belonging with me, with our family, of 'claiming' them. I'm not sure if this is what the concept is supposed to pertain to, but it's my take on it.

G xx

We had some concerns about our LO while she was with the foster career, things came to light in a phone conversation, it was to do with her safety around foster career children as she was a baby and they would carry her around. We contacted the SW who had been involved with the family and she was concerned and dealt with it for us. We were terrified they would drop her, the SW said that we were having anxiety about her as we were emotionally claiming her, it’s the only time I have ever heard it used. I don’t know if this helps, I remember thinking at the time ( no I just don’t want a small baby to be hurt unnecessarily) but looking back now I had started to feel that maternal instinct of I want to protect my baby.