How on earth do you choose schools??

[Jannt86]

Ok so I will need to be thinking about schools for my adopted daughter this time next year so I'm starting to plan ahead. It's great that we pretty much get free choice but a lot of pressure too! My question is how did you go about choosing one that fit your child's needs?

Obviously I don't really know what my dd's needs will be yet but she comes across as bright and capable. I want to know did you consider secondary schools when you chose the primary schools? For example by far the best secondary school in our area (on paper) is about 6 miles away. If we decided that the likelihood is that we wished her to go there then surely the best thing to do is put her in a primary school which feeds kids to there? I don't want to put her in a local primary school then be devastated if she has to go to a secondary with none of her friends or even have battles about which is best for her. Am I jumping the gun a bit? Would people just worry about primary schools for now or is it actually a good idea to think ahead? FTR I think if we did do this we'd move to nearer that area.

My other question is how do you decide especially when I don't even know what her strengths and needs are going to be? I realise that ofsted reports and league tables should be taken with a massive pinch of salt but what else CAN you go by? If a school is literally getting the best grades in the area by miles then it's pretty hard to ignore that. I think you perhaps have to look at these things but read between the lines too? Like there's 2 primarys nearby to us which are ofsted outstanding. One I get the feeling it's a bit 'sterile' and grades focussed from what I read on the report. The other has a real feel of a lovely communal village school. Are there any other things I should be looking out for? With her nursery I just 'knew' but this is feeling much harder. Are there any 'forums' where we can have honest conversations with parents who's kids go to certain schools etc?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and sorry for the rambly post.

Gut feeling. Ask about behaviour policies, and how they manage dysregulated behaviour. If they look blank when you mention attachment, or dysregulation, look elsewhere. If they say "but she won't remember being adopted", look elsewhere. Go on your gut, far more than Ofsted or league tables. Will they listen to you, and work with you? Very difficult just now with covid. It is hard, but remember it's not a once forever decision. If the school doesn't work for your DD, you can move her.

I’m trying to slowly figure this out for my son. He’s 2.5 and hasn’t started his childcare journey yet. I did find him a great childminder who has attachment training but when I mentioned it to the virtual school they only wanted to know what her ofsted rating was. Ridiculous.

My son has attachment and trauma related behaviours at the moment and I expect they’ll always be present although how they’ll present when he starts school I don’t know (I know how they’ll present in a childcare/nursery setting as he has difficulties with adults he doesn’t know very very well, but this may all change as he gets older and is more settled with me).

I’m looking at secondary schools that have attachment leads / experience with adopted children etc and then primary schools that feed into those which have similar. So starting from the top down because as you say it would be horrible if he made friends at primary and then had to leave them. I’m also then looking at nurseries that feed into those primaries. To be honest it’s all a bit much which is why I’ve decided on a child-minder. It’s right for him right now (she’s very good, Montessori, has links to Montessori schools, he’ll have a high level of adult attention which he won’t get at nursery) and this is going to buy me some time. Ofsted reports are invaluable in lots of ways, but if your child doesn’t feel safe and settled they’re not going to learn or see those benefits.

Don't worry about Secondary schools. You will get priority admission to them too so you can take your pick of them when the time comes.

Just checking a couple of things, you say 'this time next year'. Are you in England? I'll assume yes.

The admissions deadline is 15 Jan for admission in the academic year the following September.

So timeline is
autumn 2021 look at schools & apply
15 jan 2022 deadline
April(?) allocation
Sept 2022 start if born between Sep 1 2017 - Aug 31 2018

I would go with a school that seems nurturing and accepting that different children have different needs.
If then choosing between 2 such schools I'd check they teach phonics properly, and also that they have work from a variety of levels on display not just the bright and able kids.

Our little one is nearly 3, and will start nursery in Sept, which are usually within primary schools, so have a similar consideration as to which nursery to apply for with regard to primary and then secondary choice.
We haven't really been able to visit the schools due to covid but I have spoken with the SeNco/alenco for each school we are considering, asking about behaviour strategies, trauma and attachment training and available support within the schools. I've also spoken with the Head teachers to get a feel for them.
It's challenging as you say we don't know what little ones needs will be yet, and haven't yet started private nursery although hope to in the next month or two.
We have considered secondary feeder schools, but a lot can change with regard to ofsted reports/staffing and training between now and then, so I would personally prioritise the primary setting and look for nurture/wellbeing over academia, as feeling safe, secure and not shamed for any challenging behaviour is so important for our children to be able to learn.

Thanks all. I realise that it might seem a bit backwards looking at secondary schools already. I guess rightly or wrongly I see selecting a primary school as an easier choice anyway. Primary schools tend to be more close knit and inherently more nurturing whereas I feel that secondarys are where kids lose their way a bit if they're going to. The secondary school I have my eye on performs exceedingly well consistently (over 90% A-C grades etc) but is also noted by Ofsted to celebrate difference and varying talents. For example it promotes the arts and sports and is noted to have excellent pastoral care and small class sizes. Its catchment is very affluent. I can see this as a good and a bad thing. I can tell already that whereas my LO doesn't seem to have any major issues with emotional regulation or attachment she can lack self confidence at times and be quite resistent to being challenged or stretched to learn something new and might well have quite a sensitive personality. She isn't even 3 though so who knows how she'll cope at school. A school like the above might go both ways. It may give her the environment, the push and opportunities that she needs to do well academically or she might buckle under the pressure to perform well especially if she struggles academically. Having said that I dunno if the local comp, for example, might come with its own issues as well. Girls especially can be so cruel especially if you're in the least bit quirky or different. I experienced both types of schools as a kid. Was in a more typical local comp until age 16. Loved the teachers there. Did very well academically. But teased mercilessly by the kids and spent many a dinnertime hiding in corridors or toilets because I had no friends. It was the opposite when I did A levels at an exceptionally high performing catholic school. Found my 'people', some of who I'm still friends with today and felt much more relaxed ITO friends. However some of the teachers were awful and made me feel as thick as pigshit even though I performed well and went on to train as a doctor. It was a big system shock that they thought of me as a middle to low acheiver and came across quite intolerant of that when at my other school I was basically top of the class. I will say however that out of all of this it was the several years at the local comp feeling like a missfit which I think overall really knocked my confidence which is why I'm edging towards the alternative for my own dd. It's so hard though when I don't actually know what her needs will be.

Can I ask what the 'right' way of teaching phonics is??? I'm only just getting my head around phonics haha.

Hi,
Apologies for hastily written response but as someone with a little one a school:
The best way to teach early reading is whatever works for the children (often synthetic phonics but something different is needed for some children).
For schools, as well as all the points already raised, look at the mobility data for the school. It might be important for your LO to have the consistency of the same group of classmates over the years. It's unsettling when children are coming and going a lot, and is sometimes due to the provision at school (though often not). Check not only where your child can go to secondary but how many children go to the various schools. In village schools on catchment borders it's not unusual for children to go to secondary school with very few of their class mates from school.
Can the school tell you who the designated teacher for previously looked after children is? Do they have good outdoor spaces and are they actually used?
What does their Ofsted report say about their safeguarding approach? Often says everything you need to know about a school, IMO. art
Best of luck. X

A lot will change between now and secondary school so I’d not be thinking about that right now - you can choose nearer the time when you see how her primary years pan out.

For my two I looked for a school with a good nurturing ethos, and with a very mixed catchment in socioeconomic status, ability, racial mix etc. I wanted a school where my two wouldn’t stand out if they had problems but would also have room to shine. The HT was very keen to have them when I contacted her, could tell me how she saw them fitting in at school and made the whole process very easy.

She and I have an excellent working relationship, we have a very joined up approach to the kids schooling, the schools teachers have the same ethos - they genuinely care for the kids they teach. My DD has very complex needs and the school have accommodated these without the need for a CSP (EHCP equivalent).

All of that is way more important than OFSTED ratings, getting a good, flexible school that has a decent understanding of early trauma is worth it’s weight in gold.

I’d be asking what their behaviour management policy is, what is their understanding of the impact of early trauma, is that understood across the whole school or just by their SEN lead, what informal supports do they have in place for children, what % of their kids have an ECHP (gives a good idea if they work with families or manage vulnerable kids out the door), how do they foster good home/school relationships. Get a feel for how open the HT is to discussing your child and her potential needs.

If your child does fine, it’ll be fine but is she struggles you want to know they will support her and you as far as possible.

We had 4 primaries in our area.
They were all very different.

1. Very academically pushy middle class and at the time we looked had no trained 'Emotional Support' TAs
2. A 2 form entry v. good school. Would have been fine, (possibly would have been the better choice with hindsight) but a bit of a trek away
3. A single form 'needs improvement' school 10 mins walk away, with combined nursery. School with mixed catchment and used to children of differing backgrounds, trained ELSAs, a 'lunch club' room at lunchtime for those who found un-structred play hard.
4. A single form CofE school 20 mins away. Very religious. Not us.

We went for (3).

Phonics
Sorry I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about phonics.
They should be teaching the children to sound out words only.
They shouldn't be teaching mixed methods such as 'we teach them to sound out but of course also look for other clues such as what is in the pictures'. Their end y1 phonics screening checks should (in normal times) have most children passing. You should never hear 'well some of our better readers don't pass because they have gone beyond phonics'.

I also wouldn't choose a primary for 7 years based on easing a transition of maximum 6 weeks into Secondary school.

Thanks. Wow! I'm re-looking at the fairly nearby primary school that I've liked the look of for a while and it's weird. Although it is only a small village primary the catchment area spreads fairly far according to a map I've found and even overlaps with the secondary I've been talking about whivh I didn't realise! It seems it doesn't have a princpile secondary that it feeds into but a number of them in the key area. I think that'd definitely work as it looks like the perfect primary school and that'd give us time to really think about secondary schools. Although it might well mean her year group separating a lot in Y6 at least she wouldn't be 'singled out' for doing so if that makes sense. It's definitely on my watch list and will go see it once I can.

Do not think about secondary schools - far too far away and you have no idea about your daughter’s needs. Our DS’s needs have massively changed as he has gone through primary - I remember thinking mid way through Year 1 that we were so lucky and the school was great and he didn’t seem to be demonstrating any behaviours different to the other kids and we had dodged a bullet. 18 months later he was unable to attend school full time.

In hindsight, I wish I had gone for the 2 form entry school rather than the very middle class 1 form entry primary. The 2 form had a more diverse catchment and his behaviour wouldn’t have stood out so much. Our Ed Psych said to us that in any other setting, DS’s behaviour (dysregulation, constant feeling of not being good enough) would have (a) been picked up earlier (in retrospect there were signs in year 1!) and (b) not stood out. The school didn’t know how to handle him because they didn’t have children from a diverse socio economic background.

I think you need to find out what their SEN provision is (or do they gently try to move the more challenging kids on), how many children are on FSM, how many children have an EHCP (I had to apply for one for my DS because the school was useless and spent a very large five figure sum trying to get it and educate the school and stop the school illegally excluding my son).

Also with 2 form rather than 1 form - there is more money in the pot.

I chose the sweet, caring school - but it wasn’t the reality when things went wrong. It was too small...and he stood out too much.

It really is hard choosing a primary for any child, even more so an adopted one.

You are choosing when they are only 3, totally dependent on you, a small scrap of a thing. But this school you want to last until they are 11, ready to be more independent, have their own views and interests.

When you do get to look round, pay attention to the older children. Are they like you would want yours to be? Are they confident, polite, caring of the younger ones?

The other thing to be aware of, is children often change friends a lot when at secondary. Although it is nice to have a friend to go up with and schools seem to try to keep them in a form with 1 friend, schools do mix up the children a lot and often they have a completely different set of friends 6 weeks in (and another new lot by the end of y7).

Where as I wonder whether DD would have done better in the more MC 2 form entry than the mixed 1 form entry.

The 1 form were great on emotional stuff, but the choice of friends was more limited for my slightly unusual child. Also I had not much in common with most of the other parents so I found facilitating / creating friendships for her (and me) hard. At secondary DD became friends with 2 similarly 'quirky' girls from the other school...

I actively chose a 2 form entry primary over 1 form one precisely because the school as the option to move DC between the two classes if needed.

Some friendships or classes just end up being "not great" because of personality and ability combinations. In 1 form entry there is no option to remix classes for a better balance.

I would be looking for a school that emphasis nurturing and has a great SENCO person. A bright child will usually do well anywhere a child.

My advice would be to look for a school that understands the issues facing adopted kids in school and cares.
Wise to be wary of ofsted - and note the way it assesses has now changed.
I've got involved in governance. And if I were choosing a school again one of the things I would definitely do is request the last two years worth of minutes from every governing board meeting for each school.
Then I'd read through and see how often lac, SEN and pupil premium get mentioned and why.
I think it would give an interesting flavour of the school. Especially how the head talks. Can you see much of the visions and values coming through in those meetings?
Then I'd contact the school and ask about their experience of dealing with adopted kids. What have they learnt.
Avoid any school that claims to be perfect or seems clueless.
Have a look at their behaviour policy - is it inclusive.