Should we change agency? Will my husband cope with the process?

[biggreysofa]

We are pre-stage 1. We attend virtual information meetings from a few agencies and chose one that we liked - they seemed quite unique, offering more post adoption support than others.

Having made contact in June last year, we had a couple of initial consultations and in September received an email saying, "the team has agreed that you should be put on our waiting list to begin a Stage One assessment. I am unable to say to you how long you might be on the waiting list but realistically we will not be able to begin the process with you until the first part of 2021. This will also be on condition that you gain some more childcare experience. It is an expectation that applicants have up-to-date experience of being with children with different needs and a wide range of behaviours. I appreciate the current climate may make it difficult to secure voluntary experiences but I would suggest you at least get the ball rolling." We took that to mean that we were on the waiting list, and meanwhile, we should be looking into securing voluntary experiences (which is challenging during a pandemic!)

They told us that nothing would proceed until after Christmas, so I chased them this week. After a couple of back and forths, it transpires that we are not yet on the waiting list, and in fact they expect us to have had 27 hours' intensive childcare experience (we work full time so this will take 6 months) before we are even allowed to be put on the waiting list to start Stage 1.

I feel very dissappointed and let down, as they were not clear at all that we were expected to have gained 6 months experience prior to even getting on a waiting list! From my research I had expected to be able to go through Stage 1 in parallel to gaining the experience. I thought the 6 month gap allowed between the 2 stages existed also to help in such matters.

It stings all the more as we had both worked with children extensively (running afterschool clubs alone, working in a pre-school, leading holiday clubs and saturday morning school sessions), granted it was 3 years ago but it feels like it is much more substantial than what we could gain experience of now, an hour weekly reading with children over Zoom, for example.

However, having been reading posts on this board, I was prepared for these kinds of bureacracy, let downs and miscommunication from the agency so don't feel as frustrated as my husband... who is shell shocked. He is right now crawling on the floor and exclaming "I can't live in a world that doesn't make sense!" yes, he is laying it on thick for entertainment but I know he's struggling to come to terms with having wasted 6 months.

My questions are...

1. Not that it matters now but was it a wrong assumption on our part that we were currently on the waiting list? If this amount of experience was expected of us pre-waiting list, and it's "part of the process" as they say, why didn't they inform us of this at the beginning, with clear expectations (like they have now - high intensity experience meaning once a week, approx 27 hours, direct experience with children under the age of 11, whilst keeping a log, and gained within the last year)

2. Is this amount of expected childcare experience common throughout all agencies?

3. Does it really matter which agency you go with? I really liked this agency but after this dissappointment we are wondering if we should abandon and go with another one.

4. Will my husband be able to cope with dealing with adoption agencies and social workers? He was the child at school who would challenge a teacher about rules that didn't make sense to him, and he would insist on questioning and understanding the reasoning behind a rule before following it. He wouldn't take 'because we say so' as an answer and often would get in trouble! He finds it mind boggling that they would discount our previous experience in favour of experience with children via online means.

Would appreciate any words of advice, wisdom, experience please!

Its all madly slow and I think it was just a massive backlog of work from first lockdown that slowed things so much as social workers had to get moved over to urgently finding foster families etc, so adoption assessment came a second to that.
Lots of people have mentioned this childcare experience thing - but if you already have it from 3 years ago thats totally valid of course!. Childcare experience is an agency thing not a legal requirement so it might be worth looking at somewhere else especially if you havent even signed up. That sounds madness and would be different in a different agency.
I would defo join up to Adoption UK and the prospective adopters zoom meetings as they are so useful as everyone goes through similar delays. Theres one tomorrow or one next week and they are really good.
Timescales vary massively it does seem so random and it is all very frustrating. But yours does sound crazy on the childcare thing!

Sorry for your experience. It sounds extremely frustrating. It's a shame they don't count your previous childcare experience. The local authority we went with were happy to do that as they acknowledged that it's almost impossible to get childcare experience during a pandemic. I hope you find your way forward soon!

That does sound an excessive amount of childcare experience they are expecting you to have before even going on a waiting list.

Having said that my DH has a 17 year old son from a previous relationship who lived with us full-time for 18 months a few years ago when his Mum was going through a bad time and we still needed to volunteer to get more experience! We volunteered for 1 hour a week during our lunchtime at a local pre-school starting in stage 1. We had to stop due to Covid and it was never an issue that we only had completed about 10 hours each.

It could be that the agency are trying to delay you starting as they have more adopters than children (we are waiting to be matched and I know this is the case for us due to Covid) but I would probably be speaking to other agencies to see what their policy is around childcare experience.

biggreysofa

Are you in Englandandwales? If so this seems utterly silly and I would run a mile from an agency like this.

1) Not that it matters now but was it a wrong assumption on our part that we were currently on the waiting list?

No. In fact (to others on here) have the rules changed such that you can have a waiting list before stage 1? Once you register an interest in adoption through that agency, OP, you are in stage 1.

2) Is this amount of expected childcare experience common throughout all agencies?

No. You are expected to have experience with kids, that's it. I've never heard of the amount you describe.

3) Does it really matter which agency you go with?

Yes. Some agencies are idiots. Like this one for example.

4) Will my husband be able to cope with dealing with adoption agencies and social workers? He was the child at school who would challenge a teacher about rules that didn't make sense

Yes, he will be fine. A certain amount of willingness to challenge is an asset in adoption. He needs to keep in mind two things:

1. Quite a lot of the hoop jumping is necessary for reasons you don't realise until you have adopted. Appropriate places to ask questions are: anything which might not be in the kids best interest or which you don't understand. Inappropriate questions are: anything to do with your preference or mere convenience.

1. Asking questions is not the same as being a dickhead. You are entitled to understand what is going on. You are not entitled to see this as a customer service situation.

1. A lot of it is about the way you ask. If you really have to be bolshie then cover your iron fist in a velvet glove. Useful phrases are 'in the child's best interest for....' and 'I admire SW soooo much, you must be soooo busy, can I just ask.....'

1. Do things in writing if possible then follow with phonecall, rather than the other way around. Be very, very precise when agreeing what will happen and by when. Be understanding about delays, but chase- softly but persistently, leaving reasonable gaps.

Are you in Englandandwales? If so this seems utterly silly and I would run a mile from an agency like this.

^ this ^

We adopted 3 years ago and we weren’t asked to get any experience with children (and we didn’t really have any either). The same is true of everyone I know who adopted with our LA. You really need to speak to some other agencies as their demands are both unrealistic and unnecessary in light of your previous experience.

The childcare experience thing is a nonsense. I’d write outlining your experience with friends, family members etc and asking where they see gaps that they think need to be filled. Some agencies use childcare experiences as a way to kick the can down the road a bit - especially if they’re short or workers to do assessments. If the complaint is that some of the experience was a while ago I’d again ask what they’d be looking for now that wasn’t gained 3 years ago.

'I admire SW soooo much, you must be soooo busy, can I just ask.....'
With respect I’d caution against this approach - it’s patronising and disingenuous. Just ask what you need to, explain and get them to clarify. You really don’t need to tip toe or kiss ass.

With respect I’d caution against this approach - it’s patronising and disingenuous.

I'm exaggerating for comic effect (obviously not well enough). My point is that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Hi all,

Yes we're in England.

Thanks for all your input. It's made us feel much better and confident in at least challenging their expectations, and most likely trying with other agencies.

I've signed up an Adoption UK prospective adopters zoom meeting, and looking forward to hearing from others about their experiences.

Again, thank you all so much, it's really changed both our moods and outlooks!

We are just starting stage 1, we only contacted the agency in November and we haven't been asked to get any experience (yet). We have 0 experience other than having nieces and nephews.

That sounds like a rubbish agency! Is it la or va?

It's VA. Well, from my tiny amount of experience I would say ask them about their childcare experience policy ASAP before you waste 6 months like we've done!!

Can I just ask why you chose a VA over a LA and it doesn’t have to be yours/local LA and did they explain why they have more Post Adoption Support? Normally it would be because the families they work with need more than average, and the average is high, which is fine if you sign up knowing that’s the case.
I’d be wary ( others will have their own experiences) of any authority or agency that ploughs all their PAS budget in one provision so I’d confirm that as well.
It does sound like you are being fobbed off a bit and the whole thing can be challenging enough that you don’t want to start the journey with being fobbed off.
I’m assuming your title is tongue in cheek.

@biggreysofa

It's VA. Well, from my tiny amount of experience I would say ask them about their childcare experience policy ASAP before you waste 6 months like we've done!!

Ours is LA and it's been mentioned but they haven't asked us to get any

The SW implied it wouldn't be an issue as she said we could be looking at august for approval panel

@Didkdt could you let me know what you mean by PAS budget?

We chose a VA as we got the impression that the social workers at VAs only deal with the adoption process (i.e. may be more experienced, isn't distracted by more urgent social work), whereas social workers at LAs do all sorts of other social work so your 'case' may often end up low on their priority list.

The other thing we heard that put us off with going with your own LA was that there was a (albeit very slim) chance that you might bump into members of the birth family while out and about with your adopted child?

We were aware that the children would likely be older from a VA as they go through LAs first, but we were OK with that.

Very prepared to be told that the above is all wrong and reconsider going via LA, especially if they're more flexible when it comes to our childcare experience and what's possible during a pandemic.

There are pros and cons for LA/VA.

Local authority are likely to have a dedicated team dealing with fostering and adoption - in current circumstances they might be pulled in to cover protection duty and may be short staffed in places. They are however very experienced and have direct control over approval and matching panels. If there are possibly tricky bits in your assessment (eg health issues to explore), the local authority are best placed to work through that. They also have children to place, so matching can sometimes be quicker because they know children coming through the system, they’re often more likely to start Linkmaker more quickly. They also won’t place children locally due to risk, so I wouldn’t worry about bumping in to birth parents.

Voluntary agencies may be more focussed because adoption is what they do, and they don’t get paid until the assessment is complete. That does mean they might be less motivated to work through a tricky issue that takes time to resolve or may be more picky. They can also be more likely to artificially delay the start of the process if their resources are tight. VAs don’t have children to place so won’t necessarily be aware of children in the system matching your criteria so matching can be longer and may involve children with higher levels of need.

It’s 6 and half a dozen which you choose.

My experience from the perspective of a previous Adoption Social worker who worked for a LA, is that VAs tend to place children who are deemed harder to place. This is because LA’s will try and place in house first, because there is a fee to place a child via a VA. It used to be about 30k per placement.

@Jellycatspyjamas @lots33

Thank you both for that info, that's enlightening. I had understood VAs placing children who are deemed 'harder to place' as in terms of their age (i.e. slightly older children) rather than having higher levels of need.

Having sent an email outlining our previous experience, they've now come back and offered us a follow up consultation next week. I guess we'll go into it with a big list of questions and even if they do accept our previous experience as enough, we should re-evaluate whether to go with a LA instead.

Thanks all for your advice.

PAS is post adoption support.

[quote biggreysofa]**@Jellycatspyjamas* @lots33*

Thank you both for that info, that's enlightening. I had understood VAs placing children who are deemed 'harder to place' as in terms of their age (i.e. slightly older children) rather than having higher levels of need.

Having sent an email outlining our previous experience, they've now come back and offered us a follow up consultation next week. I guess we'll go into it with a big list of questions and even if they do accept our previous experience as enough, we should re-evaluate whether to go with a LA instead.

Thanks all for your advice.[/quote]
If the child placed with you is older it will have a higher level of need. Be careful not to confuse "need" with disability.

Imagine you're 4 years plus, you've been "taken" from your family. You don't really understand you've not be treated how you should because it's all you've known. To then move to a FC and then another family will be extremely hard to understand and process. Your ability to form secure attachments will be tested and take a lot longer, if at all possible.

I'm not trying to say all older children will be like this. This is before you get into medical needs, development and behaviour.

A baby or younger child is not less likely to have higher needs either. It all depends on that specific child's life story.

I would from what you've said change agency. Is there a reason you've not gone direct with your local authority?

And I think your husband might struggle, I have tbh through the process as I'm not someone who if asked to jump replies with how high. Which has caused tension with our SW and delayed our process. Although if he knows to keep it in check beforehand it might be easier (I had no idea and went into it thinking to be myself - wrong!) honestly the amount of BS you have to just sit and nod to in the process is mind boggling but again go into it with both eyes open