Help with angry 5 year old

[Newtoddlermum1]

Our little boy is often angry and feels the need to be in control all the time - cue power struggles. He can also be clever, funny and kind, but we are exhausted - although his good behaviour is getting better, his anger and obstinate behaviour is getting worse. School is helpful and we are hoping to get play therapy from the ASF. Looking for some optimism on a down day - has anyone been through this and seen decent improvement?

My son was very angry at 5. We had Theraplay, a specific kind of play therapy. It was helpful. Do speak to post adoption support for some help.

My little lad is much better. Still angry but much better.

the Theraplay cut the angry behaviour in half.

Hiya.

I wrote a very similar post about a week ago my boy is 5 too. 😀
When he's angry I have learnt that he's not angry he's just full of emotions and feelings he can't articulate so he shows u in by lashing out. Give him a space to calm down etc like a bean bag he can jump on, or a tent thing where he could go as he is probably embarrassed too if he's like my one. Don't talk or engage just walk him over there and when he's finished try not to talk about what happened immediately or ask him to apologise, try a distraction only for a couple of minutes then go bk to for example tyding up the mess or whatever you have asked him to do and talk to him and explain that what he did wasn't nice etc and if he's hurt you say that too.
Im trying to figure out the triggers so if you know that etc that will help.
My little boy looked at the book the colourful monster at school too to explain about feelings.
I think especially with my one covid, starting school, the excitement of christmas is all alot for there little heads to deal with and it all comes out like a explosion.
Some others on here suggested on way home try park or trampoline to help with the excess energy etc.
What is he like at school?? My little one is only angry with us at home where he feels safe and can be himself which is good in it but bloody hard when going through it.
I think if you can take it in turns with partner and if you have to walk away at some point that's fine too.
At the end of the day when he's asleep drink, watch netflix and have a cry if need be.
Tomorrow is a new day.
We have seen an improvement in the last week still angry but less meltdown and taking not too long to come out of it so hopefully going in the right way.
Best of luck x

My son is 5 and been with us 2 yrs. from early on in the placement, he has displayed very challenging and aggressive behaviour.

I suppose what has helps us most is recognising when he starts to dysregulated and verbalise it eg “I wonder if your feelings are starting to get big because your face looks flushed, your fists are clenched, your brow is furrowed” etc. We then send him to his room and stand in the hall with the door open. He sometimes takes out toys to play. If he is completely dysregulated by this point, he will scream, cry, throw things etc. I will always be close and within sight. If he hurts me, I put him on my lap and rock him slightly until the feelings past. He sometimes screams “I need you to rock me” before he becomes too dysregulated.

Afterwards, I normally say “it’s ok to have big feelings, it’s just not ok to hurt people” or “I wonder if you feel sad that you hurt mummy.” He now cries and says sorry. I hold him and tell him I forgive him (never that’s ok because it’s not). We then do something together to build our relationship (maybe a game or he helps me with housework etc).

Over time (and I mean years), we’ve seen the violence come in peaks and troughs. When it’s several times a day, it’s utterly exhausting.

I’d echo if your exhausted by it, it’s ok to take a moment. I sometimes shout, “I need a time out” and go into my bedroom (with door open where he can still see me) and practice breathing. Modelling self regulation is important too. If I find myself shouting at the kids, that’s what I do. I speak to the kids afterwards and say something like “mum was getting big feelings so I took my self to my room to do deep breaths and now I feel like my big feelings are more manageable”

I know it’s hard but try to look after yourself as much as you can. Kids to bed early so you can have a few hours to yourself.

We talk about emotions as much as natural. Own feelings, others, feelings of characters.

We try to connect as much as possible. If we’ve had a bit of a rotten day, I take him to the woods on his bike. He finds that regulating (the physical action of cycling). We also go to the beach. He loves the repetitive sound of waves. We’ve games and activities we do in the house which he finds predictable and safe (card games, board games, painting, cooking, dancing, stories, colouring). Little moments of connection are important.

I don’t know if any of this will help you (or indeed if it really helps my son) but it’s what we do.

The power struggles? I’ve no advice but keep meeting his needs. Offer choices as much as possible (sometimes it’s about being creative eg put on your shoes so we can go to the park? No. Ok the choice is put on your shoes so we can go to the park or don’t put on your shoes and we will stay here if you get what I mean). Try giving less commands if possible (so he has less to arugula with).

My son loves an argument. My son was even arguing with the tv the other day! It was the bake off when the narrator said it was hot in the tent. My boy replied “no it’s not hot in the tent. It’s cold”. Really?! Can’t you just watch it!!

I have to bite my tongue most of the time and reply “is that what you think? That’s interesting”. I don’t even reply with what it is anymore. These times calls for deep breaths.

The only thing that has helped is meeting his needs every time even if that’s hard and scary for him. It’s taken 2 years but he is now letting me care for him.

I’m sorry for the long rambling post. I don’t know if anything will help or if it’s what you do already but we’ve seen huge improvements. I posted back in the new year (post called “I’m exhausted”) and can’t believe the difference from then. I genuinely think it’s just time that’s made the difference.

Can I just say a really big thank you to you all for your posts? So kind of you. I didn’t sleep much last night because I was so upset and it really helps to know that there are things that make a difference. This morning was DH’s birthday and DC was really excited but the big feelings ended in lots of things being thrown around and DH and DC in tears. DC is so affectionate and sweet when he wants to be - can’t wait to start play therapy! What is the colourful monster book? Ps - the seaside is amazing- so calming with sounds of the waves. He will play nicely there for hours and is sometimes the best behaved boy on the beach! Wish we lived nearer to the sea x

Ps - bake off made me giggle :-)

My son even argues with himself! And if you dare agree with him; he changes his argument and takes the opposing view. On anything. Even things that don’t need to be argued like the colour of the sky, the name of an object. He is hard work!

That sounds awful about your Dhs birthday. Our kids feelings are always amplified. Scared is felt as terror, worry is felt as anxiety, something funny is hilarious and happiness is felt as elation. So pretty quickly these feelings become too big to handle and they become dysregulated.

It sounds like this is what happened yesterday. Whatever your child was feeling became so big he became dysregulated and started throwing things. Thinking brain no longer works and there’s no cognitive thought, just big feelings and the primitive brain. Does this make sense? It’s awful to see but co regulation is what your child needs. Also, with losing control comes a lot of shame. Your son probably feels terrible, embarrassed and ashamed that he ruined your husbands birthday. Talking it through and giving him a chance to “make it better” if he wants would be how I’d handle it. He may not want to (suggestion like, I wonder if you and dad would like another cake. I love cake. Why don’t we go to the shop and pick one together after school? Or let’s make some cards together for dads birthday. Or why don’t we pretend it’s your birthday. We could make some paper chains together. I wonder if you’d like (favourite colour). I know that’s your favourite colour because I know you). Or just move on and do something else that gives you a chance to connect together as a family.

The beach is one or our favourite places. My son loves the duck pond too (although haven’t been in a while). He loves throwing bird seed in the pond and watching the ducks dive down to get it. He would hold his breath in anticipation trying to spot when the duck would resurface.

Also, he likes feeding animals at a local farm place. I suppose it’s feeling needed and appreciated by the animals.

Going to the swing park is also very regulating. He loves the sensation of swinging.

My boy has big feelings a lot. I suppose it’s using the principles of PACE as much as we can.

How long had your son been in placement? (Feel free not to answer or PM if you want. Sometimes know your not alone helps).

Theraplay helped us so much. And we've done NVR since then, which has been life-changing. Take care, it's exhausting [hugs]

The colourful monster book would be this one?

www.amazon.co.uk/Colour-Monster-Anna-Llenas/dp/1783704233/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=colourful+monster&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1606473083&sr=8-6

No idea why I'm really reading this thread. But it's reduced me to tears - I think you're all so amazing for adopting.

If a child is expressing anger then I think that you need to assume that they are feeling angry. At these times though it is hard for you, they need more TLC and more positive attention and understanding

You also need to do your best to work out the root cause of the anger and other feelings and empathise and support him with those feelings. Feelings that aren't resolved in this way will keep coming back and will feel lonely and isolating for the dc, and will impact on behaviour. Try and make sure you are getting to know him more and more and this will help.

It is also important to teach him what is and is not okay in relation to how he expresses anger. Also to teach him to identify and talk about his feelings over time which together with self control will help with self regulation.

It is important to choose your battles but also to hold fast to important boundaries, but you will need to also explain the reasons behind the boundary, and say that you understand any strong feelings he has about it, and like above empathise and support him with the feelings.

YES I can offer optimism! Absolutely get support, the support we got was good, and things improved dramatically.

I'd be angry if what had happened to DC happened to me, though.

I don’t even reply with what it is anymore @121sarah121 I think the arguing with the TV and arguing with himself sounds like an expression of him feeling isolated and angry. Instead of agreeing with him, or not agreeing, or telling him “what it is” you could try just repeating what he has said, so that you are validating it. Ask him questions, and repeat back what he is saying, even if it is nonsense, and then say something affirming like “well, I love all your opinions!” Possibly this isn’t the time to explain “what it is”, but instead a time to show him you are interested in whatever is in his head, whether or not it is nonsense or argumentative or angry. With that kind of understanding, the real him, the coherent integrated joined up thoughts he is capable of, can hopefully emerge and it is probably your interest which will be the magic wand.

Also at the same time find things that you both might find new and fascinating, like the oceans or volcanoes, there are lots of short videos on youtube for young children about these things, which may spark an interest and if you get modern encyclopaedias for children and go through the amazing pictures page by page, things like this might help with the arguing.

My son loves an argument. My son was even arguing with the tv the other day! It was the bake off when the narrator said it was hot in the tent. My boy replied “no it’s not hot in the tent. It’s cold”. Really?! Can’t you just watch it!!

I think argument is massively important for children - though exhausting for parents. Things like bake off I can completely understand him arguing because his reality is different (it is cold when bake off is on tv, though they film it in summer), being able to acknowledge their confusion can help. My two now ask if something is live on a tv it not so they can understand if the weather or time of year is different.

Argument gives children the opportunity to test out disagreeing in a safe place, I tend to pick my battles - sometimes we’ll do some fact checking (let’s look out the window and see the sky), sometimes I’ll ask them to talk through their argument and sometimes I’ll go and get a cup of tea (because I’m not the perfect therapeutic parent). I also think this year has really taken a toll on our kids especially where things in the community and in school look so different. My two won’t listen to anything about Covid - actively leave the room when the news comes on the radio - they’re just so done with it all. I try to keep in mind how disruptive this year has been and give lots of wiggle room and lots of help to regulate their feelings. I’ve also reduced screen time massively because it allows them to dissociate too much, which means they don’t learn to feel their feelings so it all comes out in an overwhelming explosion later down the line.

Our kids have a lot to be angry about generally speaking, things like birthdays and Christmas are hard because anxiety and excitement sit down close together and easily tip over into temper and meltdown. It’s very hard. I tend to finely tune just how much excitement there is around high days and holidays - not helped by both my kids having completely different approaches and tolerance levels. My DD will throw herself into all the birthday prep and then struggle for a couple of days, my DS will be very low key and then feel sad that he couldn’t do all the bits my DD does. Both need space for their own process.

I do agree that just giving space and hearing how they think and feel is helpful both in supporting them to listen to their own voice and to feel accepted in themselves. I also think showing a counter to that can be good (it’s really interesting you though X, I saw it like Y and didn’t know you thought X, I’m glad you told me) not telling the child to change their mind, just owning your own different view or feeling.

It’s all part of being in relationship, and it’s tough but a good balance of approaches can help us and our kids find a way through.

I do agree that just giving space and hearing how they think and feel is helpful both in supporting them to listen to their own voice and to feel accepted in themselves. I also think showing a counter to that can be good (it’s really interesting you though X, I saw it like Y and didn’t know you thought X, I’m glad you told me) not telling the child to change their mind, just owning your own different view or feeling

I agree with you but here the poster said in a later post that if she agreed with her dc he argued the other way and vice versa - I thought it sounded more like distress than your average arguing. I thought it sounded more like a time for connecting, repairing the relationship, rather than talking about facts, or what anyone thinks is or isn't.

Normally I agree, very healthy to express genuine opposing subjective thoughts and feelings, while not invalidating anyone else's, I think it is really important for dc, so that they get to know you and themselves as two distinct entities, and also so that they start to form inner judgement. And also normally it is important to correct things that are objectively factually incorrect.