Have I had a sense of humour failure? (Warning - horrible adoption language)

[Rainallnight]

I watched some of Katherine Ryan’s new comedy drama ‘The Duchess’ on Netflix. She explores adoption briefly and when it doesn’t go well with the social worker, she says she didn’t want one of her ‘second hand crack babies’ anyway.

I’ve thought about it several times since and I’m really offended. I like Ryan but I think this is unutterably crass. I’ve even considered tweeting her!

AIBU, fellow adopters?

I am not an adopter I am an adoptee and in keeping with my other post, this wouldn't upset or offend me at all, I would laugh. In seriousness it doesn't reflect adoptees, but it does reflect how some people see adoption, and that is what would make me laugh, the irony of the element of the tiny bit of truth but that equally it is a ridiculous way to see adoptees. You could tweet in humour but with a serious message, like "yeah right that is how some people see it but the reality is that the crack babies are small humans who deserve love and nurture"??!!

I find that offensive as well to be honest.
It is the reality for many babies who end up being released for adoption sadly. Hardly a matter for mirth And the comment implies that they are inferior to other children by its tone as well. Second hand and second best as it were.
Not nice at all. .

I can she how it could be upsetting but the character isn't supposed to be liked. The whole show is peppered with vile things so it isn't out of place, that's the point of the character isn't it?

I find this offensive. My grandchild was born dependent on heroin (and probably many other illegal drugs as BM took plenty). Little one suffered horribly. I see nothing whatever to laugh at there. The label ‘crack babies’ tends to be thrown around thoughtlessly, regardless of its inaccuracy, regardless of how it perpetuates stigma. If the character is unpleasant, there are plenty of other ways of showing it, rather than taking a cheap jibe at children who have suffered enough.

We laughed at how quickly the social worker turned up...........

It's offensive. I can't laugh at this. I'm nit an adopter I'm a sw.

I think that phrase is awfully offensive too tbh.

Hmmm. I love Katherine Ryan but I agree, that line is offensive.

I have now seen the clip and in context I thought the whole conversation was a bit crass. As was "dickslexic". I laughed out loud at parts but some parts went too far for my sense of humour.

I can see why you'd find it offensive in a way but..... What exactly are we allowed to find humour in any more? It's pretty difficult for something to be funny without being in some way falible or offensive to somebody. Katherine Ryan isn't herself saying that this is how she feels about adopted children, nor even are the producers of the show. I really do like that we take more care over stereotyping and offensive language etc in modern culture than we did but I think we have to take care to teach our generation of children (children who are objectively growing up to be a lot less emotionally resilient than older generations) that they don't always have to be the victims even when they are being persecuted. If you don't like the show then vote with your feet and don't watch it. There doesn't really need to be any more drama than that. It's a piece of art not a government policy. Our own opinion isn't the only valid one in the world. Sometimes things will hurt but sometimes it's better just to keep our noses clean, hold our head up high and rise above. I'm sorry but I think somewhere along the line kids aren't being taught this and that's doing them a disservice because they're fundamentally learning not to take control of their own feelings and behaviour.

"What exactly are we allowed to find humour in any more?"

Really? Babies born addicted to crack is surely not the answer to this question. In what way is a drug dependent baby funny?

I didn't say I personally find it funny. Perhaps it's the character we're meant to be laughing at not the baby. Perhaps the humour is in the fact that the character herself is a laughably ridiculous and selfish person and we're not meant to take her seriously. Without watching it it's diificult to know what the context is. Often when humour is contraversial it's actually mocking society's attitude towards that issue rather than the victim themselves and it's done more to provoke thought around our own attitudes around this issue. I see Family Guy as a good example of this. I stand by what I said. We can choose not to be a victim. If we don't like something in a piece of ART we can be the victim or we can challenge ourselves to consider more deeply what message the author actually intended with their creation or we can outright reject it if we oppose the viewpoint. I don't think outright banning things or crying about them is always what's best though if we genuinely want to progress and address the important issues in life

The whole point of the show is supposed to be about how vain, selfish and unlikeable the character is. She’s playing a character, if she was saying these things in an interview it would be very different.

If you don’t find it funny then you don’t find it funny. No one hates babies because you don’t find it funny though.

I agree with @DimeBarLady. I've been known to make a joke about getting "Preloved" children. Yes, the character is offensive, but she's offensive about many many things, the "humour" is that she's offensive, and her daughter rules the roost. It's ok to not find it funny.

It all sounds pretty shit to be honest.

variety.com/2020/tv/reviews/the-duchess-review-katherine-ryan-1234755496/

I think it is fine to tweet her and say that it's unfunny, unkind and just a lit lazy and low. Well, that's what I would think.

IMHO comedy is meant to make fun of the big guy, not the little guy. The baby in the story is definitely the little guy. There are lots of funny bits of adoption, the social workers, the parents to be getting caught up over ever little thing, the hoop jumping - there are all kinds of things you could look at but the baby, no, OP I agree with you, unutterably crass.

@Italiangreyhound did you see the show? I enjoyed it. Not all of it was funny, but the joke was on the Katherine Ryan character being awful.

IMHO comedy is meant to make fun of the big guy, not the little guy.

Speaking as a fat person, that has never ever been true (except literally in my case). Humour requires tension, comedy has never been comfortable.

AIBU, fellow adopters?

Firstly, no YANBU, what you feel is what you feel. Adoption is a very raw subject and there is nothing wrong with you disliking this humour.

That said, I couldn't disagree more. On the question of whether Ryan is morally wrong, why?

• Does she really think adopted children are 'second hand crack babies'? No, it's art, not life.

• Are we meant to sympathise with this character and think she is right? Again, I'm going with no.

• Are adopted children or adopters the target of the joke? Clearly not, this character is.

So the only way something like this can be 'offensive' (i.e. objectively wrong) is if some topics must not be the subject of jokes and if adoption is one. I don't want that.

I don't think you could get people to agree on a list of offensive topics but if you could I'd see being offensive as an important role for art.

FWIW, both my kids are 'second hand crack babies'. I don't find that funny but do I think they are harmed by it being referrenced.

percypetulant I didn't see it. Maybe the joke was on her. I do remember Ab Fab did an adoption story once, I wasn't a mum then, let alone a mum to an adopted son and I didn't think anything of it. Maybe I'm just more sensitive now!

"Humour requires tension, comedy has never been comfortable. Yes, donquixotedelamancha. When I talked about the big person I meant the person with power.

"..if some topics must not be the subject of jokes and if adoption is one. " I guess I do think some topics are not suitable for jokes. I don't think adoption is necessarily one. I suppose if an adopted person wanted to make jokes about adoption, that would be OK. That's what I mean.

Yes, donquixotedelamancha. When I talked about the big person I meant the person with power.

I got it, I just don't think it's true (although in this case it is, the character is being kicked for their awful views on the vulnerable).

Comedy often mocks the weak or different and that isn't always wrong, though it often is (see the racist humour of the 60s-80s).

More often though, the marginalised are the subject of the humour but not the target (see Sarah Silverman's 'racist' humour) as in this case.

*kicked should be mocked.

I don't think it's humour failure but rather not your sort of thing. She plays a character as others have pointed out and it's part of the script.
Birth mum has abused everything under the sun but our 'second hand crack baby' is the most beautiful, funny and loving person I have had the privilege of meeting. Ask me again when he's a teenager😂
If someone addressed me with those words in earnest rather than jest, the situation might be different.🤨

You are not supposed to sympathise with her character - it's a deliberately shitty phrase to show her character's very many unlikable qualities.

She talks about this scene for about an hour in one of her podcasts. Anyone who is offended might find it useful to listen.

Seems as if jokes about our children are the in thing this year

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/paperchase-removes-insensitive-christmas-card-19484543

Please can you stop saying "our" children. Adoptees and children in care are all individuals.

Adoptees and children in care are all individuals.

I'm not.