INTERNATIONAL ADOPTION-SO MANY QUESTIONS!

[mumlou]

Hi, I have just joined mumsnet today on my quest to gain a better insight into international adoption. My husband and I have 2 wonderful sons of our own aged 6 and 3 yrs. Both my pregnancies were traumatic but we would like more children.

We have been thinking about international adoption for over a yr now. I plucked up the courage to tel our local social work dept 6 months ago. They were VERY negative and made me feel guilty for not adopting from the UK. They made it sound impossible and very expensive. Most of the research I have done on the internet is US based and I am having difficulty finding out average costs (we are not loaded!). Do you need to pay for a home study if you are adopting abroad?

We have chosen China as our country of choice- mainly because we would love a lttle girl and I have some conections with the country (an uncle lives there).

I am at the stage of contacting social services again and I am worried that I answer incorrectly regarding why we have chosen abroad . What is the best way to approach this?

I would love anyone to contact me personally who has just started the process.

Many Thanks
Lou

You could put a thread in chat for Kewcumber, who adopted a little boy from Russia. Something like XXXXXX KEWCUMBER!!!!xxxxxxx.

I think she works full time, tho, so don't post it till this evening.

I havent found my way around the site yet..Do you mean that I just post another message in this forum to speak to KEWCUMBER? or is 'chat' something else (sorry!)
Lou

I've just found Kewcumber in a thread about Japan (look in Active Convos) and asked her to look out for you.

You need to look at the Language/multilingualism topic, the thread is called Japan, scroll down, find Kewcumber then click on the envelope. If that doesn't work, don't worry, she'll eventually see the message I've left for her and find you.

She seems v. helpful and nice.

Thanks for that..Much appreciated x

Hellooooo!

Mumblechum - 'twas kazakhstan not russia

You first step is probably to call the international adoption centre (if you ggogle them they have a website but also run a phone help desk).

China is certainly one of the least expensive countries to adopt from and one of the most organised but to a large extent to costs will also come down to how much your council charge to do an overseas home study. Yes, virtually ALL councils charge for an international homestudy now, up to about £6,000. Notary costs, legalisation costs, translation costs can add another £2,000, I'm not up to date with the in-country costs for China but it includes a donation to the orphanage and covers their aministration costs and probably comes to another £8,000? (I'm really not sure about that but IAC could tell you). Plus obviously air fares and hotel bills.

The waiting time at the moment on the Chinese end is enormous - currently running at 2.5 yrs I think and expected to increase. This is AFTER you pass panel and are approved by DFES which all in would probably take 1.5 years, so you are looking at a minimum 4 yr wait for China even if you start the process today

re UK vs domestic - you need to be very clear (with yourself) about why you prefer to go intercountry. It is undoubtedly much harder on children adopted into a family of a different race and you need to be clear that you are able (and prepared) to deal with the issues that arise. Every intercountry adopter I know has said that at some or other they/their child has had to deal with racism and its not something which we are used to.

Having said that, all these children need a home.

I think you should remain open to domestic adoption and discuss with your social services what kind of child you would be approved to be matched with before making your mind up about China (or any other countries). You would probably be limited by the need for a minimum 2 yr gap between an new child and your current youngest, which may result in you going overseas anyway if your Social services can't guarantee that. It should be possible at least for a littel time to pursue both options and go to open evenings, courses etc.

IAC run consultation courses I think for prospective international adopters which will go through some of the realities for you.

Thank you sooo much! That has been very helpful. Our main reasons for international adoption is 1) We would prefer a child

Thank you sooo much! That has been very helpful. Our main reasons for international adoption is 1) We would prefer a child

and to reinforce what Issy said - I would probably also have felt that an "advantage" of intercountry adoption was the lack of birth parent contact. Now that I have a real life child whom I love I'm aware of teh gap this leaves in his life and see it as a potential disadvantage.

Plenty of contact in teh UK is letterbox only and doesn't impinge that much.

I would stick with the young child reason with SS unless they truly feel they can get a younger child for you.

A child adopted from China may have just as many issues to deal with as a UK child - they just tend to be different issues - health, attachment, language delays etc.

I'm not trying to put you off, just being realistic that adopting from overseas isn't the magic bullet to avoid the problems of UK adoption.

The money is paid at various points over the 3-4 years you are in teh process not all at once.

Issy - how soon after DD1 was home did you start the process for number 2?

hi lou, i don't want to put you off, but the process of adoption can be very long and traumatic, much more so than most pregnancies and births. Its really not a hassle free way of having another baby! Have you completely ruled out having any more biological children?

The youngest child you will be able to adopt internationally is probably about one year old. You are unlikely to have any information about the birth family & many children avaialable for adoption have high risk medical histories & developmental delays. You will not know to what extent these delays are due to institutionlisation and whether or not the child will be able to catch up

If you feel that you cannot cope with a child from a family where there has been a history of mental illness or substance abuse or where the child has been neglcted or abused, then you need to be aware that these are distinct possibilities in interantional adoption, as they are here in the UK

Agree with KC - I think no contact and very little knowledge is one of the saddest parts of our adoption of 2 daughters from India (now 12 and 14) We do have much contact with the children's home we adopted them from though.
Can't underestimate the patience, tenacity etc reqd for intercountry adoption and would always rec as Kristina has that all other avenues have been pursued first. There is no easy route - would rec contacting Intercountry Adoption Centre and doing one of their Information Days to start with - your LA will in all probability want you have done this fairly early on anyway and wait to get on this could be some weeks. it will be a chance to explore some of the issues involved
China is around 3yrs and could get longer so try to imagine the stage you'll be at with own children in 4+ yrs time. I can say that I felt guilty putting my 1st daughter through an intercountry adoption - no regrets now that she has a much loved sister of course, but it can be hard for siblings at the time depending on how it all goes .......

I do appreciate all your comments. There are difficulties with me trying to have another biological child... It took me 2 yrs to conceive each of my 2 sons but I was hospitalised for most of both pregnancies. In addition, last year when on holiday in Florida, I collapsed with a uterine haemorrhage. It was after this event that my husband and I started to discuss adoption....

The comments given have started me thinking again about adoption in the UK rather than international adoption (although for many reasons I would still like to go down this path). I would love to hear from anyone who has their own biological children and then decided to adopt and how it affected their biological children and family dynamics..
Thanks again,
Louise

Louise - you asked about teh effect on your children and family dynamics..

Ok - as you have 2 bio kids you wont get an agency to approve you for a baby ( under 2). i think you are saying that you coudln't consider a child with special needs - is that right? So you are probably going to try to get approved for a 3-5 yo ??? But....as your youngest child is now 3, he will only be about 5 when you get approved. You need at least a 2 year age gap between children, so this will be a problem..........

you will need to consider how your sons will be affected by you and your Dh adopting a very needy and demanding child, who will take most of your time and energy. do you have family or friends who will be able to support you? I'm guessing that the CID is not a very "family friendly" job???

also how will it work for for one of you to give up your work ? i think its pretty unlikely that any agency will place a young child with you unless at least one parent will be there for them after school and at the weekends / holidays .

Hi Kristina,
With regards to family and friends, I have a large extended family, sister, cousins etc (we are a very close family and very supportive and helpful with each others children).

The CID hours are not as bad as people think and as for my husband, his family is definately his priority. His shifts actually work out better as he works four on and 2 off which means he has numerous days off during the week, throughout a month. I currently work Tuesday, Wednesdays and Thursdays 9-5pm but my days are flexible and when I'm working our child care is split between my husband and my mum. My workplace is 2 mins from my house and all schools nurseries etc are within 2 mins (I live in a small semi rural town). I would be able to take a year off but would need to go back to work 3 days/week after that year off.

sorry - i didnt mean that you had to tell me the answers to these questions...just that these are some of the issues you woudl need to think about

How woudl it affect your sons if you had very little time for them for years and they were mostly cared for by your extended family ? Remember that the SS are only concerned about whether or not you can provide what they think teh child needs. they do not care at all about the cost to your children and your marriage - you are just a "resource" to them

your childcare arrangements sound quite flexible _ i guess you would just have to persuade any placing SW that they would meet a child's needs. Unfortunately you woudl be competeing with several other families and panels tend to favour families with one stay at home parent

I think the age gap is going to be a problem for you - had you had any other thoughts on this? And i know you were very concerned about contact with the birth family?

With regards to, "how would it affect your sons if you had very little time for them for years".

I really dont think it would affect my sons as we would all be spending time together as a family...The adopted child would become our 3rd child and we would deal with the issues that arise as we would if any of our own current children needed that extra bit of attention for whatever reason.

It would be no different to me having another biological baby (I mean in respect to the extra attention-not comparing the situaton!) who would need a lot more of my attention especially if I was breast feeding (as my 2nd son needed). My oldest son (and as a family), adapted very well to the arrival of a new born baby after having 4 years undevided attention. We just made a point of spending extra special time with our oldest son at regular intervals. It certainly hasnt been detremental to him in any way and he wouldnt be without his little brother now.

Should a 3rd child come into our family albeit from special cirumstances should we chose the adoption route, I think as a family we would manage our time to ensure that each of our childrens needs were being met..

I'm sorry Loiuse, but its not teh same as having another baby. any child you adopt will have probably suffered neglect and abuse. They will have experinced many different homes & carers and will be at risk of having attachment problems. they will probably have developemntal delays and they may have medical issues. They will need a great deal of extra time and attention. it will have a huge effect on your sons and your family life

what if you can't spent time as a family? what if your new arrival doesnt like to do the things you do as a family? is scared of them? has behavioural issues so cant cope with them? is over stimulated? wants all your attention so acts up to get your undivided attention? sabotages happy family events because they cant cope?

I'm sorry, i dont want to be all doom and gloom. But it would be very naive to assume that you will be able to adopt a traumatised child and they will just fit in with your family. Honestly, its NOTHING like breast feeding a new baby!

You said that you are a nurse and know soemthing of the circumstances that can lead to a child needing a new permanent family. Why woudl a four or five year old child who has been through all that, then kicked around in the care system for years, be able and willing to just fit in to your loving stable and happy family?

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. But you did ask what issues you should think about with regard to your sons and i think this is one of the biggest.

Kristina,
In my last message I did not compare 'breast feeding' to 'bringing an adopted child into our family' and I know perfectly well that 'they are not the same'. I was explaining that at times even in families with 'biological' (I hate that word!)children there are times when one child may need more of your time than the other (i.e, illness, hospitalisation, their own behavioural problems (as 'biological children are not immune') and as a family you deal with that in the best way possible. I also did not say that adopting a child would not affect our sons or family life. I'm not naive... but as a family we have a loving and strong bond and surely whatever difficulties should arise (as you clearly pointed out) would make us more able to cope with them and deal with them appropriately and to the benefit of all children involved...

We would not put an adopted child into a situation they did not wish to be in so "if the child did not feel comfortable going a certain trip, visit" etc etc, we would persue other avenues/ideas that suited everyone.

You can never predict what problems/situations will arise until you are faced with them and I am well aware that it would not be plain sailing.. My husband and I would like more children and because of the issues I previously raised we feel that as a family we have something special that we would love to raise a child looking for a family of their own and I'm sure the child will bring something special to our family.

I am aware of the difficulties and I know that you have been straight with me but I get the feeling 'established families' adopting a child where there already exists 'biological' children is not something that you find encouraging.

My husband and I are commited, loving parents, so surely if we feel that as a family we could deal with the problems or issues that may raise and that we could adopt a child to raise equally as our own then this should be encouraged??

I?m sorry Louise, I have obviously misunderstood you. I though that you said that

?I really don?t think it would affect my sons as we would all be spending time together as a family...?

and that you were comparing the arrival or an adopted child to that of a newborn who would need extra attention

?It would be no different to me having another biological baby (I mean in respect to the extra attention-not comparing the situation!) who would need a lot more of my attention especially if I was breast feeding?

I was simply stating that in my experience there is no comparison between the amount and type of attention required by a newly placed 4 or 5 year old child and that required by a new born bf baby. Of course, that is just my experience and yours may well be different

You also said that

?I was explaining that at times even in families with 'biological' (I hate that word!)children there are times when one child may need more of your time than the other (i.e, illness, hospitalisation, their own behavioural problems (as 'biological children are not immune') ..?

Actually Louise, but I was already aware that biological children are not immune from needing more of your time ? we spent many many months in hospital with one of our bio kids before he died

When I wrote about the problems you might encounter with family activities, I was not referring to

?If the child did not feel comfortable going a certain trip, visit" etc etc, we would persue other avenues/ideas that suited everyone. ?

I meant - what if the child did not enjoy doing family activities at all? Happy family things can be very difficult for troubled children to handle. Some parents with special need children are never able to go on family trips or holidays together. How would that affect your sons?

You said

? ? we feel that as a family we have something special that we would love to raise a child looking for a family of their own and I'm sure the child will bring something special to our family.?

It?s more than likely that any 4 or 5 year old you adopt here in the Uk will already have ?a family of their own? ? most children in care are not orphans. It?s just that for various reasons their birth families cannot raise them. They often require to have on going contact with their birth families and they may NOT be looking for another family. They are often extremely angry and unhappy that they cannot return to their own.

Please understand - I am NOT going through your posts and trying to point out where you have ? got something wrong?. I am trying to suggest some things you might want to think through a bit more. Its not a question of whether or not I would personally encourage families with bio kids to adopt. My personal views are pretty irrelevant. As I said before, you don?t need to give me the ? correct? or indeed any answer. It?s your home, your marriage and your children. You need to decide what?s right for you. I was only trying to help you make a more informed decision, that?s all.

I really do appreciate your comments Kristina and I have take them on board and thought about them. You are correct in that there is quite a bit to think about about and being a born pessimist, I tend to look at the difficulties we would encounter but I am trying to also focus on the postitives (even though they may take years ot materialise).

They may not feel able to take part in family activities initialy. We would take it a step at a time and definately wouldnt be bombarding them with the activities. But through my work and experience with chidren (with physical and emotional difficulties)you just need to find 'something' that catches their interest. I dont think that any child will 'never' want to join in. It may take sometime but slowly I would hope to win their confidence...

I am sorry to hear about the loss of one of your own children (I can also relate to that without going into detail...).

Life at the moment is settled, and we could easily keep it that way but both my husband and I feel that we can offer a child something they maybe dont have, stability, love and attention. I appreciate that they may not wish to be with us in the first instance but would hope that with time and effort they would grow to accept us as an extension to their own family and see that we are there for them..