Can I ask a question about Finances?

[karmasic]

Hi everyone,
I'm hoping to apply to adopt (as a single adopter) in the next year or so.
My main concern is proving my finances as I'm just about to be made redundant from a well paid job (which is unsuitable if I were to adopt as it involves over-night travel).
In the next year I want to work more on my fledgling business, which is much more family friendly as I can work from home, whichever time suits me.

I also have another part time job which is 'family friendly' and helps cover my mortgage/bills.

My question is, apart from putting aside savings for 12 months adoption leave how much income would a LA/VA require you to have over and above paying your basic bills?
I've worked out my household bills/expenses come to £18,000 a year. This includes everything I need to pay for to live in my home and food etc but doesn't include clothing, haircuts, any social activities, holidays, clubs etc.

I wouldn't have to pay for childcare apart from part of the school holidays (I'm assuming I would adopt a child 3-4 years)

So over the £18k how much would I need to earn to prove I can afford to raise a child?
I know it's like asking how long a piece of string is, but time is not on my side age-wise and it would be great to have a target that I can aim for.

As a lot of the people on this board have been through the process I hope you don't mind me asking here?

Hi

I'm a single adopter, finances are always a tough one.
There is no set level of income an SW will be looking for, lifestlyes and outgoings vary so much.
My first thought is that £18 k basic outgoings is going to be difficult to sustain.
That works out at around £1500 a month. Until the last year my fixed costs were about the same, but had gone up a lot with rises in council tax, utilities etc. To be honest 8 years in, that was crippling me and as a single adopter I have a very good income compared to many.
Personally I would start with taking a good hard look at your current income and expenditure and do a proper detailed budget. That should give you what you need to earn to support your lifestyle.
Throw everything in - food, car, insurances, entertainment, gym membership, eating out, savings, holidays, clothes.
Then look at what can go or what you can reduce or compromise on and add in new child related costs.
What kind of lifestyle do you want to maintain? I don't drive so not having a car reduces my outgoings considerably, but I spend a small fortune on food because I buy ethically where I can, ie organic, free range, local shops.
We are quite a busy family, my son had swimming and tennis lessons, cubs and scouts, we went to cinema and theatre a lot. We do well for holidays and weekends away but we stay at YHAs and look for deals at Premier Inn.
Probably the simplest way to look at it is this
If your current income is say £50k can you maintain your lifestyle and a child on less. If you can't then thats what you need to earn.
My income is a lot less than £50k but on the whole I have maintained my lifestyle - any 'savings' in my old outgoings where absorbed by new child related costs.
Personally, unless you are going to have a massive change in your lifestyle, including reducing those fixed costs, then you probably should be looking at maintaining your current income level.

I’m a self employed single adopter. I saved enough for 12-18 months adoption leave but I wish I’d saved more, as you don’t know when you’ll be able to go back to work based on your child’s needs or your own exhaustion! I’m three months into placement and really miss working. I could do bits and pieces in the evening but I’m so tired I have a shower, flop in front of the tv for an hour and then go to bed. My LO isn’t emotionally ready for nursery yet (2yo) / to be left with others so I don’t get a break from him. I hope we’re at that point before I run out of money!

My pre motherhood income was variable but I’d be classed as a high earner. I don’t know what my career will look like when I return because of Covid. My social worker wanted to see evidence that I could obviously cover the cost of a child for the foreseeable and that I’d have a back up financial plan if I couldn’t work.

I currently spend about £100 a week on food (I don’t go crazy) and my son needs MORE shoes as he’s outgrown the ones I just bought him. I probably spend about £50 a week on stuff for him to play with / do / clothes. My water bills will probably increase cos of all his bathes. As with anything assume you need more money then you think!!

@mahrezzy I guess my back-up plan (as a single person) if I couldn't work would be to sell my house and when that money was gone I would have to live on benefits.
I don't have a trust fund or rich parents I could live with .

So if my outgoings were £15,000 cut to the bone, would an extra £10,000 (so £25,000 net) be enough?
I'm not really imagining I will have the same lifestyle as before as pre-covid I was a avid traveller and went on a couple of long-haul trips a year & a few short-haul trips. I am equally happy camping in a friends garden, so I don't need fancy things.
I'm just used to being childfree and because I have friends with vastly different incomes raising children I'm not sure how much monet social workers expect you to have after bills are paid.
I'm very good at budgeting, and have always lived within my means, I know I could cope with a birth child but this is a different process.

I was wondering what social workers told people that have been through the process about finances?
I do imagine most people are MC and in a well-earning couple, so maybe there is not need to discuss it?
Should I ring email some LAs/VAs and ask directly or is that considered gauche?

It’s hard isn’t it. I’ve thought about selling my house and downsizing but then my son would freak the fuck out at moving. To be honest I’m just not thinking about money and am trying to enjoy my strange maternity leave!

I don’t think I can help you with specifics as each LA is different. Mine wanted evidence but the evidence I gave was a spreadsheet of financial stuff. They didn’t ask for proof!

I’m shocked at how much extra I spend on food. Before son I ate well but with him we eat a lot of fresh fruit and veg and he still has bottles so I spend a fortune on milk for him. Then add in nappies and lots of clothes as he’s growing so much and then new things every week as I discover he needs them. Waterproof dungarees. A blow up messy mat for kinetic sand inside. A sandpit for outside. A paddling pool. A swimming costume. Etc. It goes on and on as we’re starting from scratch with fast growing children, not tiny newborns.

I think the best thing you can do is to start the process and figure it out with your SW. They don’t expect parents to be rich, thankfully, just that you’ve thought about it. Ask friends with children of a similar age what they spend and maybe add some more on top of that. If your child goes to school that will definitely help you to work, especially if you’re self employed and can work around school hours, but now I’m in this position I’m wondering if I want that stress. If my child has issues at school (likely) will I be able to work around this confidently? If I don’t work I don’t earn. If I was starting a new business would I be able to meet my child’s needs and manage the needs of the business so I had money coming in?

I think I estimated an extra £600 a month for my son (so similar to your figures). I don’t know if that’s right or not as I’ve not had the headspace to think about it. I do remember looking at how much foster carers were paid and assuming I’d need that. My FCs paid for a lot for my son out of their own pockets though so not sure that amount is enough.

I hope this helps. Don’t know if it does. Excuse the rambling I’m exhausted from broken sleep from son teething!

@karmasic
An income of £25,000 a year is more than enough, in theory. Many families live on that level of income. But they probably aren't forking out 15k a year on fixed costs.Your outgoings are just as important as your income.
But only you know ifs its comfortable for you.
£10k a year over your fixed costs is about 750/800 a month. If that has to include food, you will struggle.
You will probably get child benefit, so that helps a bit. You may qualify for universal credit so I would look into that.
To be honest I'm not sure a back up plan of selling your house and living in benefits would go down well with SWs.
I know some adopters do end up on benefits, some of my income comes from benefits. But to live solely on benefits is a miserable existence and and stressful.
I recieve tax credits only because my son had DLA. I will lose most of this income in the next year. Fortunately my mortgage only had 18 months to run and I have the option to go full time at work. Otherwise quite frankly I would be stuffed.
I don't think I know any adopters who are wealthy or have rich parents helping out. Most adopters are probably what I would call comfortable but certainly not wealthy.

I’m a recently approved single adopter yet to be matched. During the assessment, my social worker wanted to see proof of earnings and outgoings. I showed them my payslips and spreadsheet of my outgoings so they were able to determine that I wasn’t living beyond my means and adding a child to the mix wouldn’t push things past the limit.

Before I expressed my interest early 2020 I did an audit of my outgoings to see if I could do without things or get cheaper alternatives. So I swapped energy supplies, changed to sim only, cancelled my gym membership and took up running and home exercise and swapped supermarkets. I mentioned this to the social worker and they seemed pleased.

I do have some savings but nothing extensive. I think they wanted to see that I had a workable plan to sustain us during and post.

We’ll see what happens one the child arrives.

Overall I think it would vary depending on the individual and assessing agency/local authority.

[quote Ted27]@karmasic
An income of £25,000 a year is more than enough, in theory. Many families live on that level of income. But they probably aren't forking out 15k a year on fixed costs.Your outgoings are just as important as your income.
But only you know ifs its comfortable for you.
£10k a year over your fixed costs is about 750/800 a month. If that has to include food, you will struggle.
You will probably get child benefit, so that helps a bit. You may qualify for universal credit so I would look into that.
To be honest I'm not sure a back up plan of selling your house and living in benefits would go down well with SWs.
I know some adopters do end up on benefits, some of my income comes from benefits. But to live solely on benefits is a miserable existence and and stressful.
I recieve tax credits only because my son had DLA. I will lose most of this income in the next year. Fortunately my mortgage only had 18 months to run and I have the option to go full time at work. Otherwise quite frankly I would be stuffed.
I don't think I know any adopters who are wealthy or have rich parents helping out. Most adopters are probably what I would call comfortable but certainly not wealthy.[/quote]
Thanks Ted,
I would say living on benefits is my plan b, but ultimately if I couldn't work (child or no child) this is where I would end up being.
I'm not suggesting it's an easy option at all and I'm not trying to be glib, but as a single adopter if I can't work I don't have a partner who can cover my bills.

Thanks @ILovekeylime - I already audit my outgoings as I hate to waste money as I would rather spend it on nice experiences or save it.
Having said that I do have a monthly artisan candle subscription that could go
I swapped Waitrose for Aldi a few years ago and I always buy my phone outright, I go running or do hitt training at home, so no gym to cancel etc.

@Ted27 I meant that the £10k over my basic outgoings wouldn't include food or household stuff as that would be covered by in the basics outgoings. Basic outgoings includes my car running costs/petrol as I can't do without a car where I live, so I consider that a fixed expense.

It wouldn't include eating out or takeaways/coffees etc which would need to come out of the £10k (or whatever that figure is).

Not single adopters, but we were both what I would consider high earners pre adoption (eg earning a collective wage of over 100k) My wage was the larger of the two and I was going to be staying at home. Our SW was insistent that we saved a large amount of money, as I left my job (it wasn't compatible long term with having a young child who needed lots of attention) I left my job as intros started taking a lump sum payment that was equivalent to my adoption leave, but we were still asked to show that we had a large amount of savings because our lifestyle and outgoings were high. Despite us saying that we wouldn't be expecting to continue to have foreign holidays, wouldn't be going out as much etc our SW was clear that she wanted us to have a financial plan that enabled us to do that if we decided we wanted to once LO was placed. I didn't work at all for the first year and lived on my savings which was fine. I then got a full time job when our son started Reception. To be honest our expenses remain high- we do go on lots of holidays every year and do still go out, so I am glad that our SW insisted we had a good financial plan. I don't know if that helps, but I would say that it is hard to not live the life you used to be able to live/want to live and it's worth planning now to enable you to end up being comfortable. Adoption is hard enough and if you end up "resenting" a child for you not being to be comfortable.

Thanks 2mums I've never been a high earner so I'm not sure that I would be resentful of a child preventing me earn more, but I can see that if you are used to the finer things in life how you might be.
I'm personally not bothered about money (which is reflected in my choice of career) but obviously I know that I need to survive and I want to give an adopted child a nice life and opportunities - and obviously money does help to provide those things.
I've managed to have a nice and comfortable life so far, but my bar probably isn't as high as yours!

I didn’t mean my bar was high, I was just trying to offer another perspective.

@karmasic

I think @2mums1son made some very valid points.
Before my son arrived I earnt above the average but not what I would call a high earner, eg only paid standard rate tax. I've never had an extravagant lifestyle, I live in a very ordinary victorian terrace, I don't have a car, I don't drink very much or buy designer clothes/shoes/handbags. But I was comfortable and could afford what I wanted - mostly books, theatre, cinema and gigs.

Its not about being able to afford the 'finer' things but maintaining a lifestyle that is comfortable for you.
Kids are expensive, if I am being completely honest, yes there have been times that I have resented my son, particularly when I see the hit my pension has taken, or when I'm replacing the third pair of shoes he's lost this week and the numerous things he has broken or damaged.

If that £7- 800 does not include food, then its easier but for me that would still be tight. Things to think about
September - paying out for school uniform, decent winter shoes and coat
December - a trip to the panto and to see Father Christmas could set you back £100
School holidays - 13 weeks to cover, holiday clubs can cost up to £100 a week
activities - eg swimming lessons
You can see how that £700 can very quickly get used up.
What about contingencies - car/washing machine/ cooker/fridge/boiler breakdown
But really its irrelevant if other people think £700 is enough or too little.
Can you maintain your current standard of living, plus the added costs of a child on the amounts you are suggesting, if you can crack on.

As someone 8 years along, I would caution against starting out on the margins. I have had effectively no increase in income for 8 years, in that time food, utilities, council tax etc etc have all gone up. My house has suffered from lack of maintenance as I could only keep up with bare essentials and whatever broke down/ blew up. He's got bigger and more expensive. Its only because I had wriggle room that I've maintained a reasonable standard of living.

@Ted27

“Can you maintain your current standard of living, plus the added costs of a child on the amounts you are suggesting, if you can crack on”

Yes this was what I was trying (perhaps poorly) to explain. For us I’m glad someone made us save because we needed to even though I didn’t want to!

It’s difficult because only you know really what’s an acceptable standard of living for you, so no one can put a fixed sum on it. Things to consider include:-

• living costs while on adoption leave
• reduces income post adoption
• childcare, over holidays and in emergencies or if you just want a night out
• clothes and shoes
• activities and entertainment
• holidays, Christmas and birthdays
• health and well-being appointments, therapies etc

As well as just increased household costs that come with having someone else live with you. What I found helpful was to have a number of plans in place, eg my husband and/or I working part time, one of us giving up our jobs, I changed my job for something less well paid but much more conducive to family life and my DH changed job to be physically closer to home. In the end all of the flexibility has stood us in good stead in Covid-land.

The most useful thing to do, I found, was to have lots of different options eg part time work and running a business, with the option to drop the business if need be, and the possibility of increasing my working hours if that made more sense. In the end we’ve found that we’re pretty stable financially because we get some disability benefits and an adoption allowance which plugs the gap in my income.

Try not to plan on the basis of giving stuff up - your lifestyle will certainly change but some of the “optional extras” might be the difference between coping or not.

I started a few years before adopting and basically cut out pretty much everything nonessential for a while, and worked out what I actually missed - which turned out to be not that much. My son is only 2, so outgoings for him are pretty low right now, so we manage on part time hours, but I should be able to increase if needed.

During my training I made a spreadsheet of anticipated income/outgoings for a variety of circumstances - one or more children, different childcare options, different number of working hours etc, which it turns out is way more than Panel required, but was very useful for me to get my head around which scenarios would work & which would need changing or ruling out.

I'll echo @Ted27 about not starting out in the margins. There's so much uncertainty on every level - what will your child's specific needs be & how much will they be able to cope with, how you'll adapt & what time & energy you'll have left, whatever longer term changes we experience from Covid, Brexit & the next potential calamity. You'll most likely cope, whatever it is, but clearly it's better to cope further away from the edge.