Starting the process - Child care experience? Excessive requests

[rwoollsey]

I am very new to the world of adoption and wanted to see if the levels of child care experience our LA wants is normal 😕

Our LA seems to want more than others in many areas (for example instead of 3 references jointly as a couple we have had to provide 6 - when we have looked online many other authorities say it's 3) and we have just been told we will need to complete 40 hours each of child care voluntary work.

We have a good level of child care experience already, my husband spent years working at a soft play centre, he has younger siblings and nieces and nephews who we have had overnight since they were infants. I have a niece and nephew who again we have all the time and overnight (they are 1 and 3) so feel this is excessive, esp since we both work full time its going to be difficult.

Does this sound normal, has anyone else been required to do so much voluntary child care?

TIA

[Ted27]

Hi
Different authorities have different requirements. asking for 6 referees for a couple isn't unusual. I don't think I've ever seen voluntary experience quantified in that way but I suppose it equates to a couple of terms at a brownie or cub group which doesn't seem unreasonable.
My SW was very dismissive of the time I spent with my god children. I have heard of teachers being asked to get broader experience. They want to see you with a range of children, in different situations, with additional needs if you can manage it.
If its want they want you'll have to do it - welcome to adoption world!

[rwoollsey]

@Ted27

Hi
Different authorities have different requirements. asking for 6 referees for a couple isn't unusual. I don't think I've ever seen voluntary experience quantified in that way but I suppose it equates to a couple of terms at a brownie or cub group which doesn't seem unreasonable.
My SW was very dismissive of the time I spent with my god children. I have heard of teachers being asked to get broader experience. They want to see you with a range of children, in different situations, with additional needs if you can manage it.
If its want they want you'll have to do it - welcome to adoption world!

Thanks for this. They want me to spend 40 hours in a nursery setting which is my biggest issue as it's taking a lot of time off work tbh. They said my husband can do scouts but

[Ted27]

@rwoollsey wow, that is very specific, no alternatives?

have you asked them what adjustments they are making for COVID?

Scouts arent't back meeting yet, they are on Zoom, we haven't had any information as to when they are back in person. Nurseries may not want random volunteers. Just a thought !

[rwoollsey]

[quote Ted27]@rwoollsey wow, that is very specific, no alternatives?

have you asked them what adjustments they are making for COVID?

Scouts arent't back meeting yet, they are on Zoom, we haven't had any information as to when they are back in person. Nurseries may not want random volunteers. Just a thought ![/quote]
They said scouts should be opening up soon (1-2 months) and they also said we could go to stage 2 without the hours but couldn't go to panel without it so have time.

It's more the faff of having to take so much time off work to volunteer in a nursery, when we have more child care experience than anyone else in our local group of newbies - yet it seems we have to do the same amount of hours.

It's going to take ages for my husband to get the 40 hours just in scouts too as the sessions it seems are only 1-2 hours long per week!

[Ted27]

I doubt Scouting/guiding will be open until at least September, Its only four weeks to the end of term, Activity in the summer is usually the camps which won't be happening.

[JohnPA]

Hi. In stage 2 of the adoption process we were also told that we had to obtain more childcare experience, despite us having some experience with children. We were very lucky to find an organisation in London that requires volunteers each weekend to spend time on recreational activities with disabled children, including autist children. We basically volunteered together as a couple for 3 hours each Sunday for about 5 months, before we went to panel. This was a great experience since we did together as a couple and actually learned a lot of strategies that we currently apply with our adopted children. The name of the organisation is Keen: www.keenlondon.org/volunteer-with-keen-london/

[IBoughtALlama]

Hi, long time lurker here, in the process of getting ready to start stage 1 (moving house etc), just wanted to say that I've worked with kids most of my adult career, and 40 hours isn't actually much in practice. I appreciate how awkward it will be if you need to take time off work (could you take Fridays off for a couple of months and volunteer one day a week?), but hanging out with nieces, nephews, family members is completely different to suddenly being fully responsible for a child you don't know that has come from a traumatic background.

I briefly worked in a residential kids home for children unable to be placed in foster care and let me tell you... even with all my many years experience, it was a shock to the system.

The kids i had worked with before were all being parented by their mother/father or both. Suddenly spending whole days in loco parentis with kids who have suffered complex traumas and/or had issues with attachment, and having to find new ways to connect with them was tough - and for me it was a job that i left after my shift!! I think you'll find the new skills you'll gain incredibly useful once your LO comes home and you're looking for ways to bond with them. Ideas for crafts, games, songs to sing etc can all be picked up from volunteering in a nursery. What if your LO has a developmental delay? or autism? or any other number of conditions? have you got experience with kids not related to you with those conditions? if not, then finding time to spend with professionals looking after kids like this will be so valuable to you. you'll learn so much from them. I spent time with a nanny once who specialised in working with non-verbal kids with autism, and i learned so much from her that I've never forgotten to this day. You also might make friends with a few other parents which could help as part of your support system eventually.

As @Ted27 said, a couple of terms of brownies/scouts for your OH isn't much. It could also just be really good fun!!

once your LO comes home, i genuinely think you'll be glad of the experience. it will make you so much more confident!

[rwoollsey]

@IBoughtALlama

Hi, long time lurker here, in the process of getting ready to start stage 1 (moving house etc), just wanted to say that I've worked with kids most of my adult career, and 40 hours isn't actually much in practice. I appreciate how awkward it will be if you need to take time off work (could you take Fridays off for a couple of months and volunteer one day a week?), but hanging out with nieces, nephews, family members is completely different to suddenly being fully responsible for a child you don't know that has come from a traumatic background.

I briefly worked in a residential kids home for children unable to be placed in foster care and let me tell you... even with all my many years experience, it was a shock to the system.

The kids i had worked with before were all being parented by their mother/father or both. Suddenly spending whole days in loco parentis with kids who have suffered complex traumas and/or had issues with attachment, and having to find new ways to connect with them was tough - and for me it was a job that i left after my shift!! I think you'll find the new skills you'll gain incredibly useful once your LO comes home and you're looking for ways to bond with them. Ideas for crafts, games, songs to sing etc can all be picked up from volunteering in a nursery. What if your LO has a developmental delay? or autism? or any other number of conditions? have you got experience with kids not related to you with those conditions? if not, then finding time to spend with professionals looking after kids like this will be so valuable to you. you'll learn so much from them. I spent time with a nanny once who specialised in working with non-verbal kids with autism, and i learned so much from her that I've never forgotten to this day. You also might make friends with a few other parents which could help as part of your support system eventually.

As *@Ted27* said, a couple of terms of brownies/scouts for your OH isn't much. It could also just be really good fun!!

once your LO comes home, i genuinely think you'll be glad of the experience. it will make you so much more confident!

Thank you for this! I agree there is a benefit to it but it's just frustrating how much is required. Since with Covid it's getting difficult to find something to do for that amount of time! My husbands work has gone into over drive due to COVID so he is busier than usual which again hasn't helped :(

considering other prospective adopters who have never changed a nappy are being asked to do the same hours it just feels a bit odd

[Bouncydoog]

I have worked with children but also was suggested to get experience, but it wasn’t specified how many hours or compulsory. I think it is seen positively at panel. We volunteered during stage 2, you will need the agency’s or voluntary organisations DBS, even if you have one through work (even though mine is for kids and adults). Mine stopped due to COVID-19 but scouts continues online. We both work full time. I ended up doing rainbows and Brownies, and OH does scouts. It was very difficult to get nursery/pre school experience, I eventually found one willing through word of mouth at rainbows and did one morning a week, time in lieu from work. It’s good to have these as extra references.
You could try do-it.org for voluntary opportunities. They had some interesting things when I was looking.
I found the volunteering fun and it was nice to do it without my work hat on, it increased my confidence with engaging kids with different needs, and we gained supporters from our local community. Good luck.

[ifchocolatewerecelery]

The adoption process often seems to be one long series of fairly bureaucratic hoops that have to be got through an can occasionally feel like a tick box exercise. Everything you're asked to do, you're asked to do for a reason though. Some of it is a legal requirement set out by government, some of it is as a result of serious case reviews when adoptions have gone horribly wrong and some of it is because your SW knows that their are certain things that the individuals who are approving your application to adopt expect to be evidenced in a very specific way otherwise they will simply refuse to consider your application.

[googledontknow]

I don't think 40 hours is a lot?
Agreed that it's tricker post-COVID.
Families children where you have known each other from birth/look/smell like each other and they have their loving parents who they trust to mirror in their relationships with you is completely different from trying to parent a complete stranger, that where the experience is needed.
Applications for adoption is known to be a tough process, I don't think the things you have been asked to get (3 refs each, 40 hours volunteering) is a big deal at all.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

Thanks for this. They want me to spend 40 hours in a nursery setting which is my biggest issue as it's taking a lot of time off work tbh. They said my husband can do scouts but

I’d challenge this as discriminatory tbh, if they “need” one of you spend time in a nursery surely it doesn’t matter whether that’s you or your husband. I’d also explore what they think you/your husband will gain doing 40 hours voluntary that you don’t already have - you’re not going to be working with deeply traumatised children as a rule in nursery or in the scouts simply because, in my experience, children in those circumstances tend to be linked with someone offering a long term commitment who can offer a stable relationship. I’d have concerns about any organisation that gave people who purely wanted some time limited volunteering experience access to very traumatised children - the children aren’t there for our education.

I’d also explore the request on the grounds of equality - not everyone is in a position to take time off their work to volunteer with children which could mean people who are perfectly able to parent don’t have the option to adopt because their requirements are restrictive.

As a SW I’m not a fan of asking prospective adopters to do some very time limited random volunteering with children, in lieu of long standing, constructive caring relationships with children. In your circumstances what they are asking for specifically is problematic from a values and ethics point of view. If they won’t budge, I’d use a different agency - you don’t need to apply through your own local authority.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

Everything you're asked to do, you're asked to do for a reason though. Some of it is a legal requirement set out by government, some of it is as a result of serious case reviews when adoptions have gone horribly wrong and some of it is because your SW knows that their are certain things that the individuals who are approving your application to adopt expect to be evidenced in a very specific way otherwise they will simply refuse to consider your application.

And sometimes it’s just the way things are done around here, and sometimes it builds time into a time pressured process (yep, the assessment process is delayed - they’ve not done their volunteer hours yet so we can’t meet our deadlines), sometimes it’s inexperience in the part of the social worker and sometimes it’s just a hoop for the sake of proving you’re worthy to adopt one of “our” children.

I’d ask why they need what they’re asking for, what specifically they need you to evidence and how (many local authorities ask for childcare experience but never actually get a report or reference from the agency concerned). If there’s another way for you to evidence what you need (eg they want you to have experience of working with children with learning difficulties and your have a good relationship with your friend’s child who has a processing disorder).

Ultimately if they demand you do it, you’ll have a choice to make but I’d be clear about the practical/financial implications on you and show where you can evidence the same capacities currently.

[EnergyCreatesReality]

Hi, we're in stage 2 and both had to get childcare experience at a nursery despite my husband having a son from a previous relationship who lived with us full-time for 2 years. As other posters have mentioned they wanted us to get experience with children from different backgrounds who we didn't already have a relationship with.

I went to a local nursery for an hour once or twice a week in my lunch break so it's not something you necessarily need to take time off work for although I agree post-COVID it will be harder to find somewhere.

[Moominmammaatsea]

Jellycatspyjamas, I couldn’t agree more with everything you’ve written. As a long-time adopter of two, I’d actually (and maybe perversely) be annoyed if either of my children were ‘used’ so cynically by random, time-limited volunteers at the expense of building long-standing and fulfilling relationships with dedicated nursery practitioners or other committed professionals and volunteers.

[NeedAUsernameGenerator]

It doesn't sound like that much to me to be honest. 40 hours is only 5 days if you can do a full 8 hour day, or 10 half days. And presumably they want the main carer to get experience in a nursery because you want to adopt a baby or toddler? We were expected to have done some volunteering even though we have birth children, although we had already done a lot so didn't need to do any especially for the adoption. We were also asked for 6 personal references, plus one from everywhere we had ever volunteered with children, plus one from our children's school, then they asked for an extra family one, so that did feel like quite a lot!

[feelingverygrateful]

6 references is normal, they will want to visit/speak to most of them as well.

As a previous poster said 40 hours isn't actually that much in terms of days, although I understand it is difficult with work commitments and the current lockdown situation. I'm a teacher, previously a TA with children with special needs and had been a nanny....so more than 10 years experience with children of all ages. However they still required me to get extra childcare experience. It's a way of demonstrating our commitment to the process I think.

They will throw a lot of stuff at you that seems bureaucratic, however I think it's their way of testing how commited you are to pushing through the process.

[Ted27]

I think it would be helpful if instead of just saying 'childcare' SWs specified what they actually wanted you to learn from it.

All the Brownie/Cubs stuff isnt childcare, we all know that whilst its useful, it doesnt prepare you for the reality of living with a traumatised child. Nor do I think they want you to show you can change a nappy or wipe a snotty nose.
If they were clearer about what it was supposed to achieve it would be a lot better for everyone involved.

[Moominmammaatsea]

Now I’m getting even crosser! Honestly, for a process which claims to have the needs and interests of children at its heart, why should children (and not just those with attachment issues) be used as a social experiment in a tick-box exercise which adds another temporary adult to their lives?

I’d be less than impressed - especially in these COVID/post-COVID times - if some random signed up for 40 hours at my child’s nursery, not because it was a benefit to the children there but because it was a benefit to them. I value the long-standing and carefully-nurtured relationships my children have with their committed and professional care-givers, I don’t want Tom, Dick & Harry (and their non-gender specific alternatives) hanging out there because a social worker says they have to (for a time-limited period).

Looking at this through the prism of a 14-year-adoption journey, I honestly think it’s counter-intuitive to introduce more strange adults to our children for nebulous reasons. And I’m gobsmacked that adoption social workers are seriously thinking that this is a good idea.

I also think it’s sad that there’s such a seeming power imbalance in the relationship between prospective adopters and assessing and matching social workers that there’s pretty much a consensus on here that when ‘they’ tell ‘us’ to jump, ‘our’ automatic response has to be ‘how high?’

[Jellycatspyjamas]

They will throw a lot of stuff at you that seems bureaucratic, however I think it's their way of testing how commited you are to pushing through the process.

I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to be honest, the assessment process is bureaucratic enough to test commitment - if they’re asking you to give 40 hours of your time in addition, it should be meaningful and worthwhile. I’m with @ted27 in wanting to know what specifically they wanted you to get from the volunteering experience before agreeing to do it.

[Ted27]

But we have all done it haven't we ? I have, though I went my own way and spent three years setting up a school garden working with the kids

[Jellycatspyjamas]

I didn’t, and wasn’t asked to - when I asked my SW about childcare experience she felt it was unnecessary and unproductive to volunteer and took references from friends and family members whose children we had cared for, she also met with my niece who was 13 at the time and with whom we have a very close relationship. There are many ways to assess someone’s capacity for relationships with children - SW can be notoriously blinkered in this.

And yes, I’d be very cross if my school or nursery allowed someone to work with my children for childcare experience as part of the adoption process, I certainly wouldn’t be consenting your that.

[ifchocolatewerecelery]

@Ted27 not all of us did it. DH's experience with kids was looking after his 2 nieces who were both over the age we were looking to adopt when we started doing this.

I did some volunteer work in my teens with brownies and guides. I was mid 30s when we started the process. Professionally I've supported teenagers to 100+ years old with a range of disabilities and health issues. Again virtually no experience directly with the age range we were looking to adopt in.

The subject of volunteer work never came up at any point in either our assessment or training process.

[Ted27]

That's interesting, everyone I know had to do something.

I was a bit miffed with my SW who completely dismissed all the time I had spent with my god children. When I first met her she said my experience with them was irrelevant because it was too long ago. I had been back home after spending a week's holiday with them, which I did twice a year. She actually called one of my friends up, not a referee, and insisted I took her eldest out for the day. He was very obliging if somewhat bemused. I should have known then it wouldnt end happily with her !

[StrawberryCheesecake1879]

Hi, we had to provide 6 references, then additional ones from work and voluntary work. We were told to get more experience, although we were not given any guidance as to hours. We helped with a Beavers group for over a year (so well over 40 hours) - actually really good experience and good for developing support network too. Good Luck!