Overfriendly toddler! Best way to approach this?

[mahrezzy]

My son has been home for seven weeks. He's nearly two and is pretty happy and settled. I'm a single adopter.

I knew he could potentially have attachment issues (when I first met him he happily sat on my lap) but as I slowly come out of funneling it's becoming more and more apparent that he has no stranger danger at all. He approaches people in the park and sits with them, talks to strangers, and is very friendly with people who come to the house to jobs. I just had a gardener here to help with some advice to toddler-friendly my garden and my son kept touching his legs and at one point raised his arms to be lifted by him. He has no sense of personal space and gets right in people's faces.

I've spoken to my social workers and have a referral to talk to someone about this further. I'm looking for real life experiences of this. I know it's quite common and I understand why. My son has had a range of carers in his short life. I'm his third 'mummy'. Anyone could be his next parent as that's all he knows.

I'm trying to teach him about stranger danger but it's early days and he's so young. I'm quite strict about it when we're out (not that he listens!). Should I be so firm with him? Should I let it go for now and wait until he's older? I'd love some advice from anyone who's experienced this.

PS, I'm wearing myself out by telling people 'no, it's not alright' when strangers tell me that it's fine for him to be as overbearing as he is. I wouldn't mind but they do it so that he can hear which doesn't help me reinforce the message that I'm mummy, that he does as mummy says, and we only talk to people we know the names of. I know they're being polite and kind (and he is very cute) but ARRRRGHHHHHHHH.

Hello there and congratulations! My AD was the same. She did grow out of it and then went through the phase of being terrified of strangers!
I remember it being exhausting but the only way I found around it was to be on her all the time. At 2, they are just too little to fully understand stranger danger (keep talking about it though). Whenever I sensed she was about to trot over to a stranger I grabbed her and distracted her. I just didn't let her have any opportunity to do it.
As I say, she did grow out of it eventually.

It's exhausting. The most exhausting thing is strangers who think you're mental, and assuming they're a paedophile for trying to manage your own child's attachment problems.

It sounds like you're absolutely doing the correct thing. Be the parent people roll their eyes at, and always bring him back to you. Keep going, limit interactions with others. You'll get there.

My two were the same...I worried too, but they are a bit more aware now. Once though, at probably a year or so older than yours...they decided to go feral at the supermarket. So in the car home I had a stranger danger chat with them. I said: "what would you both say if a stranger offered you sweets?" In unison, and without hesitation they said "we'd say thank you very much".

Thankfully they are now much more hesitant with strangers.

I just thought on this that this is actually quite a good time to deal with this problem - I imagine people are being all 'dont worry dont worry' thinking you are worried about social distancing - so all you need to say is something like ' no, he needs to know this for nursery', and 'come on now, social distancing' etc etc - people will get that very simply without having to go in to the more complicated issues, and in time he will learn. Hes only little, it will take time.

I havent yet adopted and so cant be of complete help but I think when my current two were two ish I would insist on hand holding in dangerous places for safety like roads (for many years!) and be non negotiable but fun about it, I would only be in a supermarket with them in a trolley as they do run off its basically chaos, that kind of thing. It will take time Im sure, and dont stress to much (impossibly I know!)

@mahrezzy, hi to a fellow single adopter and well done, you, for surviving introductions and early placement during lockdown! I hope it hasn’t felt too stressful/scary/tedious/lonely for you?

Anyway, just a couple of practical thoughts (as this is going to take months if not years of reinforcement from you, and you have to provide the solutions as the rest of the world invariably will not get it, because being a cute and appealing toddler kind of comes with the territory): invest in a character backpack with reins (check out the LittleLife options) to prevent your little one having the chance to give you the slip and run up to strangers.

Also, given the current situation, there’s a great opportunity to teach your little one - in a child-friendly and age-appropriate way - about the need to socially distance. Axel Scheffler, who illustrates The Gruffalo etc has written a great book (available free online in a digital version) which explains about the new rules of the world in a toddler-friendly way.

My DD really struggles with this and she’s much older. We’ve done lots of work on family, who is in our family (who they can hug if they want to), who our friends are, about people getting to choose if they want a hug or not. I’ve also done a lot of work with wider family and friends to reciprocate if DD tries to hug them and then to redirect her back to me. I don’t want her to feel shamed for trying to have her needs met but want her to know she always comes back to mum and dad.

We also had some rules - if mum hugs someone it’s ok for her to hug too, if mum doesn’t hug them, she needs to not hug either. In school the agreement is that she can ask any of the adults for a hug and they’ll hug her and redirect back to whatever activity, I wouldn’t have put her in a school with a “hands off” policy.

I guess I’m doing a combination of helping her know how to tell that people are safe, while respecting others boundaries. It’s slow incessant work and sometimes she still goes rogue but we deal with things as they arise.

I wouldn’t worry too much about stranger danger just yet because he’s not going to be out if your sight for a while. We got a colourful book about families which we used for games of “hug/don’t hug” which was both interesting and fun.

Thank you so much for all the advice. I think I need to tread a bit softer with him and to try to distract him before he does it (I tend to let him run around a lot in parks as he has so much energy!). I watch him carefully but always feel so downhearted when he does it. I know it's such, such early days of attachment for us both, but it really does make me sad. And then I get cross when other people think he's charm personified! (he is, but not because he has no stranger danger)

I love the idea of using a Covid nursery socially distancing excuse rather than offending people (several people have got cross with me, astonishing), @mrsspooky, thank you! And he's so big that he'd easily pass for nursery age. I'm so frazzled I probably look like a keyworker!

@Moominmammaatsea thank you for the tip off on the book. It's definitely not been easy, and we're still funnelling on the advice of my social workers so I'm only seeing my 'emergency' friend once a week, so it's been quite lonely and isolating. That said, I don't know how it would be if we weren't in lockdown! It would be nice to go to the supermarket with him but I don't think he'd be able to queue patiently to get in! And I've never pined so much for soft play in my life (as I think all parents are!)

I do have a question about attachment if anyone can help. As I mentioned, my son's attachment is a bit skewiff and has always been. He was very attached (?) to his foster carers, who he was with for a year. He still misses them terribly. I've taken this as a sign he was attached to them, yet he was over friendly with strangers in their care (although they didn't discourage it). Could he have an attachment to his foster carers if he was still waddling over to strangers and being over-friendly? I just don't know!

@mahrezzy, I’m by no means an expert on all things adoption but I am 12 years in and parenting two non-birth related children, so I guess that makes me the expert on me and my family! Anyway, I have really mixed feelings about the insistence on funnelling in the early days of placement, mainly because it is so, so isolating for those of us who are single parents. I get that it’s trying to replicate the bonding process of newborns and their primary caregivers, but new mums are inundated with love and care and casseroles and get to show off their new bundles of joy when they are ready; they even get the chance to pass their baby over to a willing cuddler so they can go for a shower or drink a cup of tea while it’s hot. As (single) adopters we’re expected to go into self-isolating mode and treat other people like they’re a threat; I think lockdown has shown the world that this is not a natural state of being for human beings and many more people than usual are suffering mental health difficulties as a consequence.

Anyway, onto your question: in my experience (and extensive reading over the past 15 years) attachment is a lifelong process and many of our children will not be able to achieve the Holy Grail of being ‘securely attached’ but that is not to say that they and we cannot live happily and co-exist in a family setting - it just means that we have to parent very differently and maybe lower our expectations or think differently about what constitutes family.

I do cringe (inwardly, and, I hope politely and considerately) when I read on here or other forums that adopters are delighted that their newly-placed children have ‘attached’ within a matter of weeks. Just to put things into context, my 12-year-old, who is a great girl with lots of friends and who is achieving well at a fantastic secondary school, crawled into my bed one night last week sobbing that she felt worthless. This was a baby removed at birth and placed with me at one. The damage was done and it sounds negative to write that the die was also cast but we fight so hard - constantly/continually - to try to undo the harm of those pre-birth and very early experiences.

I hope this wasn’t too negative for you to read - in a nutshell, I think I want to write to tell you and your boy to try to be happy together, however this looks for you, and maybe stop focusing on the very nebulous aim of ‘securely attached’.

Good luck!

@Moominmammaatsea thank you, I really needed to hear all of that! I agree about people saying their children are 'attached'. I know an adopter whose had her daughter for three months and thinks they're fully and securely attached. Erm.

Sending your daughter a hug. And you! My son is going to have a lot to untangle and deal with as he gets older and while I'm not looking forward to it, I understand what it is to go through it (I went through a lot as a child and don't think I'll ever come out the other side really.

An aim of having a happy life together is perfect. I think I'll always remember that. Thank you, truly xx

Attachment is a massively misunderstood concept amongst folk who are involved in working with children. Its not about a child’s day to day interactions or how they build relationships, you wouldn’t for example be able to assess a child’s attachment style purely by watching them go about their day.

It’s about how children react when in stressful situations, how they find a secure base to work from and their internal working model of how the world works. These things are built up over years and years, especially if early attachments have disrupted. Generally when people talk about attachment they actually mean bonding or relationship - which is different to attachment.

Attachment is built in the every day, the responding to tears, being a steady presence in distress, built in predictability and routine which tells a child a carer will consistently meet their needs, is a safe haven for them.

Don’t worry - your little one going to other people is wholly natural given their life experiences, the probably didn’t have a secure attachment to their foster carers (Nothing against foster carers but you’re description pre-placement didn’t suggest a securely attached child), I was told my DS had a good attachment to his foster carers when his behaviour suggested anything but.

Attachment will come as you consistently care for your little boy, as you consistently and predictability meet his needs and set boundaries.

hi there, im not sure how much help i'll be as ive noticed some of these behaviours in my own little boy as well (not to an extent i'm hugely worried but its something ive mentally noted) so more of an empathy post to say "i feel you" if thats helpful at all. my son is 20m but has always acted a little older socially (ive always thought of him as a toddler for quite some time). hes pretty extroverted and a lovely thing about his foster home is that he had a lot of affection and play which i think has reallt benefitted him - i think he is just naturally confident and sociable but it does present challenges, some of which i am wondering are adoption-related. he was 13ms when adopted so im not sure how much he'll consciously remember about our transition but i do feel there may be some subconcious stuff going on about trying to "appeal" to adults and ensure his attention needs get met?

my son also doesnt have any stranger danger. he would literally run and run and run away from me in a park if i let him and doesnt appear (altho we have bonded v well so im not worried about that) to have that sense some kids have to look out for where their parents are when we're ina public space. its weird because he has seperation anxiety in the home but when out in public has no sense of safety. i noticed when starting to take him to play groups before lockdown that he sort of "courts" other adults and is often trying to play with other ppls parents and hes done this at wider family events too - sort of attached very quickly to a "favourite" adult who hes not even met before and been all over them. he is going through a very affectionate stage atm which is lovely between us as a family and something im loathe to discourage but when ive had the chance to observe him wiht other family its sometimes been a bit uncomfortable. so for example he got really attached to an older cpusin who is about 7 and followed him around absolutely everywhere continually giving him big squeezey hugs and grabbing his willy!! Which im not horrified about as i honestly think it was more about the height he was at when hugging him and him not knowing much difference but it still caused embarassment and i didnt really know how to handle it as i was consciouis his cousin wasp robably embarassed too

some things ive started to implement have helped me feel a bit more in control of it tho it does make me feel conscious that i allow him less freedom than other kids his age who seem to be allowed to run around, climb etc...i tend to hold his hand more than other parents. I do let him have free rein to walk and run in parks etc but i know i cant rely on him not running off/attaching himself to someone so i do this within a cofined zone. im trying to be less "give your gma/auntie/gdad a kiss" at the end of family things now as i want him to have more awarenss that affection is a choice, not an obligation (i rmeember feeling very uncomfortable at ebing asked to ksis uncles etc when i was young as i was painfully shy). im working on "staying wiht mummy/daddy" when we are in a social situation and diversion works a little bit. but i have no amazing answers! xxx

oh and sorry i meant to add i do agree wiht others that some of it is about re-educating wider family etc. ppl can find it very cute and flattering when a toddler approaches them and it can be easy to write you off as being a bit strange. but its important for them to know that tthey need to help reinforce the msgs and boundaries you want for your child. my side of the family are great and have always got the thing about backing us up etc but my in laws can be difficult as i get the impression they think im a bit of a fuss pot

@Jellycatspyjamas thank you, that does make me feel better. I remembered thinking 'hmm, really' when the FCs told me he was attached to them. I'm still not sure. He missed them a lot in our first weeks of placement and still talks about them. I know that given the choice even now he'd go to them over me (we've not met up yet for this reason and have stuck to phone calls).

@veejayteekay you could be describing my son. He's very clingy at home and needs constant attention. If I go to the toilet he gets upset if I say he can't come, he gets worried if he notices I'm not in the room. But outside of the house his selective hearing kicks in and he runs off without a care in the world! He does look back, and last week I hid behind a bush to see his reaction and he called for me sounding worried (I know, mean, but I wanted to see). He knows I'm mummy, he comes to me for comfort and to meet all his needs, but he's SO FRIENDLY to other people and absolutely courts them too. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm sorry you're going through this too but am pleased I'm not the only one.

Three years in my kids still talk about their foster carers and will sometimes be quite upset missing them - it’s a huge loss when you’re little.

I think that "attachment" is often used in the relationship day to day common parlance sense rather than the psychology/psychiatrydisorder sense, and that does cause confusion - the latter is complicated and diagnosed by experienced professionals.

@mahrezzyI think that the best thing you can do (subject to professional advice) is concentrate on the relationship, the connection, getting to know them, their quirks, unique qualities, and ultimately as they start to talk what they think and feel.

I think that if your dc goes up to strangers or family with arms up it would be better that your entire focus is on your dc, not the people they have gone up to, try to always be right next to your child at all times to redirect them to you yourself, either by distraction, or showing that you are there, or by explaining that he should hug you and not people he does not know (as a social rule almost) or swoop them up into your arms, whatever you think will work best with LO, rather than tacklingor educating other people. If the people he goes up to are strangers I wouldn't try to explain to them, just be bright and breezy and concentrate on communicating with LO. It doesn't really matter what they think.

Incidentally the majority of parents I know do this with their dc at this age, stick with them. Some don't and some often socialise in groups and take each other's dc to the toilet etc but most parents I know tend to the personal care of their dc and stick with them, and expect everyone else to respect this.

I don't think it is a good idea to test your LO to see how they react if you are not there. I also don't think that it is a good idea to teach a 2 or 3 year old stranger danger, they won't understand and you might cause anxiety - at this age you need to just be there nearby all the time to make sure they are safe. I do however think you can teach social rules, ie "we don't go up to x and give a hug" and when it might be appropriate to go up to others and how.

If you carry on doing this, he will know to come to you. The better the relationship, the better you can help with insecure attachment issues as they get older. I hope it all continues to go well.

@veejayteekay with the running away outside, what you might be looking at is trauma affects rather than attachment. It might feel like he is running away from you, it might even look like that to others, but it may well be to do with the sudden increase in stimulus, causing him go "off line"/get overstimulated/lose impulse control especially if there are a lotof people around,and just lose all sense of time and danger, and...just run, basically. Holding dc's hand is good, going for long walks to help calm the nervous system is good as they get to 3 and 4 years, holding hands the whole way is fine, I think. Over time the walking joins the brain up with the body apparently, and there are things you can do to increase self control, and you can work up to not holding hands in parks, or on roads. If at a busy place like a tourist attraction you may need to continue to grab the hand even if they are normally ok on roads etc, because again so many people might make them go off line and run.

I think that holding hands when they are young and on long walks is good for attachment - for the connection, helps with keeping a conversation going, etc. I am not commenting so much on whether there may or may not be attachment issues, more that the running you referred to may be related to trauma effects on the brain, which can ease over time, to the best of my experience and understanding.

My nephew was similar. He wasn't adopted but he was cared for by parents grandparents, a childminder and nursery so he pretty much went to any adult. He also didn't understand the concept of anything belonging to him either.

Obviously you must be guided by the experienced advice but isn't telling him no just pissing in the wind at his age? Supervise him well and let him learn boundaries naturally?