Poor relationship between kids. At a loss

[likeamother]

We have a bit of a unique set-up but think this is the best place to post. I would really value some insights and thoughts from those with blended or separated families.

My Dnephew 13 has lived with us for 2 years, since he began secondary. He's had a rough ride, was removed from his mum/my sis aged 2 and lived with my mum who is brilliant but due to age and ill-health was starting to struggle. The move here was planned and we live in the next city to where he was with my mum, he was seeing her lots still before lockdown. He is young for his age and has some unspecific mild learning needs at school, it doesn't come across to friends, my friends etc. but he is a little young for his age and does struggle a little to follow some instructions, though some of this I'm sure is a typical teen thing too.

I'm separating from my husband, I was house hunting before lockdown but things have obviously been delayed. We hadn't told the kids as were waiting to know for sure where we'd be moving to.

I have two DS, just turned 7 and 4. Prior to DN moving here they were all so close and had a fab relationship , especially DN and my older son. It has all gone downhill since he moved here and then worse again since lockdown. There's a 6 year age gap and DN has started hitting the teens so I accept they're in different places and aren't going to be best mates, but the competitiveness (mainly from DN) is getting ridiculous and I fear damaging their relationship further. Just a few examples:

• DS7 sits next to me for a cuddle, DN runs across, 'I want a cuddle! I want a cuddle!' and they literally fight over me like the last bloody doughnut.
• DS got rollerskates for his birthday just recently and was beginning to 'get' them. When we showed DN he said, 'I want rollerskates! I really want them!' (he had them when younger and wasn't bothered about them at all).
• DS showed us all a magic trick he got in a birthday card, DN immediately starts begging to know it, no 'Ooh that's good, well done' etc. Goes on and on until I say (and feel bad about it), 'Can you please just let DS enjoy his trick, like we have done when you've done tricks or similar in the past?'

There are a million other things and I'm at the point where I tense up every time they start playing together or talking because they can't seem to be happy for each other about anything. I hate to say it but it's largely DN causing trouble, e.g. the two younger ones are playing and he comes over and within a couple of minutes one or both of the younger ones are upset because he's changed the game or introduced things they don't want him to, like said 'it's a bomb!' and dropped something on some Star Wars nation they've set up or whatever.

DS7 is no angel and can be a telltale and I often tell him to just leave it, that it's not nice to tell tales, that they need to sort it out themselves etc. But tbh I can see why he feels fed up because if I happen to overhear how DN can talk to him when he doesn't think I can hear it can be spiteful or mocking or overly bossy (I always say something when I do hear it), and DS is now at an age where he wants to be in charge of his own games and they end up in a weird power-play.

DS4 has picked up on the dynamic and I think it's changed his relationship with DN too, because he's naturally closer to DS7 due to the age gap and things in common etc. He sees them arguing and I see him mimic how they speak to each other and it isn't nice.

I've tried to talk to DN when we're doing something just us, e.g. encouraging him to take a bit of a different role, like helping or just joining in as I would when playing with them because, as an adult, I don't feel the need to change the game or have a problem with the younger kids leading it. However, DN I think is caught between two worlds of feeling like he's too grown up to play on one hand, but then wanting to join in and be in charge.

I've assured him he doesn't need to 'compete' with the younger 2, that he gets to do all this other stuff they don't, e.g. stay up later, watch films they don't, have more screen time, do things independently with friends (before lockdown at least), but it doesn't make a difference except for a few hours after maybe.

When I do physically separate with my H I'm worried their relationship will get worse. DN won't spend much time with H (DN is one of the reasons I'm leaving him but that's probably a whole other thread!) so the younger 2 will be spending, say, 35% of time with H, together, and have less time with DN. While this might make things more harmonious in the short-term, I worry they'll be less connected and I just feel so sad for DN as I know he hasn't had it easy and must feel displaced, despite my best efforts, as ultimately I'm not his mum and I know he feels sad about this.

Has anyone got any advice, or things that have worked with step siblings? I know life isn't perfect but I'd love for their relationship to improve in some ways at least, and reduce the tension. I feel really out of my depth now, and just overwhelmed as I'm trying to manage this weird lockdown secret separation which is hard enough. Feel like my head is going to explode!

Thanks @Italiangreyhound that’s a good idea. So easy to focus on and remember the rubbish stuff!

We’re not like the other families and that’s ok. He’s not like a typical teen, I’m not a typical mum

No you’re not a “typical” mum, you’re an exceptional mum parenting children through exceptional challenges - I slowly learned to to give to fucks about what other people though of me as a parent. I know their needs - I don’t always get it right, and sometimes get it spectacularly wrong, but the intention is there and I’m learning all the time. You need to parent the children you’ve got in front of you, and not worry too much about performance parents who’ve got all the answers seemingly. Adoptive parenting is amplified a hundred times, adoptive parenting of an older child much more so - you’re doing a great job, even when you’re not feeling it.

Hang in there.

OP I am an adoptee, I had some extremely difficult experiences growing up but my brain ended up being substantially rewired as a teenager, because of extraordinary circs, and I went on to do well, good professional career, my own family, etc. As an adult a few decades on I have read up on the brain remodelling, and science has moved on and in fact the latest science, assisted by neuro and physical science, shows that the brain can indeed be rewired very, very substantially if it gets the right help at the right time. I do disagree slightly with the posts about going back to blueprints or original wiring - because of my own experiences and my more recent conversations with experts - but I do not want to make a point here for the sake of it, more to say that yes, there is a great deal that can be done for your dn and in fact although you have highlighted problems, it is clear that what you (and your DM?) have done so far too has been pretty damn good - your dn has probably benefited so much already from your joint input.

However...

I have young dc and I would not bring a teenager in to live with us or break up the family, because my dc are very young - as are yours - and were here first and it wouldn't be fair to them - in fact the more you read up on what has been talked about here in relation to development, the more you will see what a profound impact this will have on them now and for many years to come - if this isn't handled right it could very negatively affect them.

Is this what you H is saying? Because if so, i would be minded to listen to him, to thnk about it and get some joint expert advice.

I am not sure what the solution is but I think that you do need some really good real life help here to help you see potential long term consequences for your younger two and also for dn - you have been very open to what has been said here which is so great but it has taken many posters on here literally years to get to the point they are at in terms of understanding - what time do you have to read up on it all, given that it is exactly that, you time, that your children need right now?

Can you try to think of other solutions which would be better, for everyone? For example could he have stayed with gm if she were living closer to you with some sort of really good support to her, even live in if that were possible, like a nanny of sorts, more specialist help for dn, and lots of time with you, as a healthy family unit, if you can come to a new understanding with your H if that were possible?

Apologies in advance for any typos, have had to type quickly.

Sassy makes some very good points.

Hi,

Have you heard of AdoptionUK.org? They have a helpline, support groups and a very good forum with experienced adopters. Worth a look.

We used to do "special time" with my daughters. Each day both my husband and I spend 10 minutes alone with each of them. During those ten minutes they could choose what we would do: cuddle, talk, play, whatever they wanted (no breaking of family rules, no screens and nothing competitive were the only rules). We would put an alarm on and stop after 10 minutes on the dot. It was hugely helpful in many respects. It gave them a sense of control, we could model and encourage good behaviour and it helped the bonding a lot.

Your nephew is grieving. He has experienced two massive losses and even though the move was planned, he feels he might be moved again. It sounds as if he is doing very well at the moment, but this also might just be a honeymoon phase. Like others have said, try to get professionals involved to get the help you and he need.

I would recommend reading "Preparing for Adoption" by Julia Davies as a starter. It will give you a very good overview.

Sally Donovan is another good author and Karyn Purvis "The Connected Child" gives a lot of practical advise if I remember correctly. Have a look at the websites of familyfutures.co.uk and PAC-UK.org. There is a wealth of information out there on adoption. Not everything will be relevant, but you can get help and there are things you can do to help all your boys.

Wishing you all the best!

Hi OP. I'm a social worker so have dealt with this quite a lot! Under what order is your nephew living with you? Depending on what (SGO, care order, CAI) depends on what support you can access. You could look at CAMHS family therapy or you could look at the adoption fund for specific support for your nephew to understand his life history, identity in your household etc xxx

I have seen a video on another thread that I showed to my lovely in-laws to try to explain why ds has some of his 'issues'.

I thought of it again when reading on here i meant to post it but my brain is like a sieve these days.

I think this is the video I saw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcm-1FBrDvU
the window of tolerance more.

Thanks everyone and sorry I’ve not been back. Without boring you with the details, the last week has set off a bit of a chain reaction internally and I got into a bit of a spin with some of the recent posts. While really valuing the insights and advice, it’s a lot to take in and has made me truly realise how complicated this is and how far-reaching the consequences are for everyone. Fell into a bit of a hole earlier in the week and just felt like I couldn’t cope. Not just with this but the fact that I’m separating too, trying to buy a house, keep on top of life, lockdown, etc. etc.

I’m starting some individual counselling next week and DN has started some this week, over the telephone with a counsellor he’s had sessions with before. I think this is the best I can do for now while things are transient, family therapy next.

@sassygromit I found your post really hard to digest but I needed to hear it, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge around being adopted and the potential negative impacts on my young children. I do appreciate it, even though all the hard stuff feels too hard sometimes and I don’t really want to think how bad this could be for all three of them, I know I have to.

To answer, no, this isn’t what my H is saying. He has his own issues but ultimately he doesn’t love DN, and separate to my nephew, there are many reasons the marriage is ending. In terms of moving in a teen with young kids, he has been in their lives from the very beginning, staying regularly at weekends - or at least seeing every weekend - and coming on family holidays from the start, so while it definitely has changed since he moved in (without a doubt!), they have had a strong and loving relationship since birth until DN moved in aged 11. I keep thinking about what you’ve said about the negative impact on them. I obviously don’t have the answer to this, but know I can’t turn my back on DN. I hope family therapy will help, I’m not sure what more I can do right now about it as my marriage is ending - and that is the right thing I am sure - and DN does need a home. I want there to be a solution in which nobody is damaged, but I know there isn’t. It’s something I am sure I’ll talk about in counselling and I hope there will be a way through in the future, where all three can be supported and will be ok.

It’s funny you should ask about my mum/his grandmother moving here as I have been hoping she would and she recently has said she’s ready to. It may take a year or so but I really hope it happens and think it will be great for DN and for my mum, and will make it easier for her to help him and me to help her also. So yes, there’s a possibility of him being able to stay with her more and maintain that close relationship while still getting his practical needs and school needs etc. met by me and still officially living here. And maybe this will help the younger two if they are or start to feel impacted.

Yolande - thanks for all the suggestions, I’ll look at the authors when I can and at the adoption website.

Pabsypops - I’m hoping for SGO but he’s still on the (old style I think) residency order in which DM and my sister share PR. We were advised he’d need to live with us for a year before applying for a SGO and then because I knew things were likely to change with my marriage I have waited.

@Italiangreyhound - that video is amazing, it explains it very clearly and simply, I think my DM will benefit from it too and have just sent her. Thank you.

likeamother thank you for the update. I'm sorry things have been hard lately. You sound like a truly amazing woman. Xxxxx

@likeamother there has been some fabulous advice on here for you, I just wanted to share this video with you as an aside to the complex issues you and your family are experiencing - I was lucky enough to do a course on the teenage brain recently, and although your DN is going through one hell of a lot he is also becoming a teenager and the good news is that there is so much opportunity during the next 12 years to remodel his brain.

And well done for being an amazing Mum and Aunt

Italiangreyhound - thank you, you're so lovely

I am actually mostly a mess of bad emojis right now but I know there is only so much I can control and at least, mostly thanks to this thread, I can start to handle things a bit better and make some positive changes. I hope you and your family are ok and you have a nice weekend

@JamieFrasersSassenach I love this, thank you. The integration stuff is so interesting. I'm going to watch it again with DN later, I think he will really like it.

JamieFrasersSassenach that video is amazing, I love it. I have a 15 year old, I will show them it!!

OP I am sorry my first post was very blunt in parts, I should have put it in more digestible terms - I thought that the next morning.

In real life the people you speak to will have a far wider picture than we have here, they will be able to get an idea of the dynamics, and you will be able to explain to them other relevant factors which are hard to post about online, such as the relationships with your sister, and other things related to your H maybe. I hope that you find someone who can be useful (and not blunt...).

I love the teenage video too, I linked it on another thread, and the author Dan Siegel has also done some really good clear videos on different kinds of attachment which may be useful for DN too - if you put "dan siegel attachment youtube" into google search they will come up.

I think Dan Siegel is a really good communicator as he can distil complex theory and make it accessible for us, and he is very humane, and another person who I think is similar who springs to mind is Penelope Leach - I (and most of my friends) read her book "Baby and Child" and it was lovely and really informative and insightful and she has now more recently written a book about divorce, about putting children's needs first which looks at the situation from the child's point of view, looking at how a young child will see it differently from an older child. It has been criticised because it provides statistics about how it is better to stay together and it doesn't address dynamics where one parent is abusive or incapable - but I see it more that none of us can do things perfectly, and knowing what the optimal way of doing things is helpful as it makes it easier to understand what the fallout might be and manage those problems better... if that makes sense. If you put "penelope leach divorce" into amazon search it will take you to the book!

In relation to your H and love, I think that love can be a really tricky subject in relation to adoption/adoption type situations and needs to be discussed and researched more. My personal view (there are many views out there) is that it is a really good thing that if he can be honest about his feelings, and it is what happens with it going forward which matters. He may get useful insights from talking to someone in real life too, I don't know.