Concerned about daughter starting school.

[Teacher12345]

People keep saying "she will fine in a few months" but the next few months are going to be so far from normal that I fear it will be worse than I anticipated!
DD has been home 3 years. Will be 5 in October so one of the oldest and in many way just isn't ready. Academically she can count to 10 but not reliably to 20, she can do shapes and colours. Her pen control is getting better but her ability to recognise and write letters and number is hit and miss and she is very far from being able to write her own name.
I could live with this if I though that emotionally or behaviourally she would be okay but she is struggling there too! I have been trying to do some work with her as her readiness for school now depends entirely on me and DH for the next 6 months but am struggling with her stubborness. If you ask what a number or letter is she will often get it deliberatley wrong or say she doesn't know, even if 5 minutes earlier she told me correctly! The more I say "you do know this, you are a clever girl" the more she pulls away and refuses to try. Her attitude to everything is like this. If she is corrected in anyway she will refuse to continue the task. If she is asked not to do something she will either burst into tears or hit out. If she is told off in a more serious manner she will burst into tears and needs the loo urgently or else will have an accident.
I am so worried about how this will manifest at school. She has been attending nursery since she was 2 and people kept saying it will "get her ready" but now she won't be going so I have lost all faith that it will be okay. I am trying to do some work in playful ways like asking her to write numbers on a whiteboard, playing dominoes or card games with flash cards etc. I just don't know if it will be enough.
Does anyone have any ideas on how I can help her more or just reassurance that even if she isn't ready in September, it won't be as bad as I think?
My birth son is in yr 3 in September and to make it worse is very bright and was always really far ahead developmentally so I worry that this will reflect badly on DD as people may expect more, even if they know her background. I know teachers pit siblings against each other and seems so unfair that she doesn't have the same chance as he does.

My daughter is early in the year too and started last September. She knew her letters but similarly didn't give the right response even when I knew she knew the letters. I've come to realise she has a low sense of self and so rather than give an answer that is potentially wrong she'd purposefully give an incorrect answer as that's better in her mind that getting it wrong(if this makes sense) I found it frustrating. Now she's started at school she is doing fine and doesnt have the same issue with teachers etc only sometimes when doing homework with me. We have an agreement with the school that there is no pressure over homework and we don't have to do it but actually we have managed to get it all done. The children are all at such different levels some will be ahead and some behind. They learn the letters, numbers and counting at school so I wouldn't put too much pressure on learning them in the coming months and wait for school to do that with her. My son also starts this September and he can't put pen to paper, struggles to recognise any letters other than his first initial etc but I am sure that once he starts it will balance out. Hope this helps!

Also just to say the Imagination Tree have some nice ideas of playful ways to do numbers and letters but I'd be tempted not to do too much. Nursery will follow the Early Years Foundation Stage same as in reception so they will be preparing her for where she should be.

There are kids in DD1's class who are not much further along than you describe. The school are used to dealing with that.

DD2 starts next year too and can't write recognisable letters and numbers, most of the time, either.

Your DD may be a little behind, but sounds within the (very broad) normal range. She may fly once she starts school. Even if she needs extra support, the school should be able to help.

When my son started school they said they really didn’t mind where the children were academically/intellectually, they expected there to be a massive range and they would teach to that, AND sometimes parents think they’ve taught and given their kids a head start but the school uses different methods so they have to un-do some habits and re-teach... is a long way to say don’t beat yourself up.

What our school did want was For children to be capable of going to the toilet and washing their hands, putting on their coats and shoes and knowing how to eat with a knife and fork.

Twinkle are free at the moment. They have daily home schooling plans here:

www.twinkl.co.uk/home-learning-hub

You will need to sign up with the code CVDTWINKLHELPS.

You can obviously pick and choose, no need to do the 3-4 hours it provides.

Thanks guys! I really needed to hear this.
Most people just don't get it as they have never had it drummed into them that their child is likely to struggle to acheive anything. It is part of the adoption process that I don't think was overly helpful and has left me questioning everything.
Nursery will follow the Early Years Foundation Stage same as in reception so they will be preparing her for where she should be. This is what I have been assuming for months however now, there is a very good chance that she will never return to nursery, and will go straight from 6 months at home, due to COVID-19, to school.

they have never had it drummed into them that their child is likely to struggle to acheive anything

Who the hell told you that bobbins?

1. There may be a higher incidence of educational difficulties amongst adoptees but adopted kids are fundamentally no different to any others.

1. Even if a kids is of below average academic ability, that doesn't determine their life.

There is an adoptee in one of the highest offices of state at the moment. Adoptees are famous musicians, film directors, tech moguls and former US presidents.

DD1 was delayed when she arrived. She's in Y1 and currently doing the Y3 home study because her stuff is too easy.

Your DD can be anything she wants.

(I helped a lot when my DDs were in primary school.)

Stop worrying about counting and number recognition.
Just try to keep her happy over the next 6 months, and work on 'self care' which is more important than academics at this age.

It's going to be hard to practice playing with other children, but everyone will be in the same boat so all children will start 'behind' compared with usual reception years. Make sure you try to do some 'turn taking' games, and work on dressing, doing up coats, that kind of thing.

As an Oct birthday you actually have a great advantage, as your DD can be 10 months 'behind' and still be within class norms, just with the summer borns.

However, I'm not convinced the 'you can do this you are clever' is the best approach. I think many children don't like being 'tested' like this, and in general it is better to praise effort rather than 'cleverness'. I think you might have more benefit from finding a more 'playful' way somehow for this kind of learning.

You could always defer until January if you think she would benefit from some more normal time with you before school if the current situation continues well into the summer.

Finally, hopefully you have been able to pick a school with some understanding of issues that might come with being adopted. Prior to starting you need a discussion with the reception teacher and the senco on how how she emotionally reacts to being told off etc.

5 months is still a long time, she might mature a lot in that time.

My son is academically in about the same place, he's also the same age, but I am honestly not worried. Ready for school doesn't mean they can already write the alphabet, or even their name. Strengthening the hand for writing is more important but it doesn't need to be done with actual writing. We do lots of mark making and other fine motor activities like squeezing bottles, and using scissors and toy tools.
For actual reading, he loves books. He can't get enough of them. And he is always asking me to read environmental print to him and I'll sound the letters out for him but he cannot accurately recognise more than a couple of letters on his own. That's fine. That's where he happens to be. I'd rather he enjoyed reading but not be very good than to beat the joy of it with questions he can't answer before he's even at school. Letter recognition will come in time but I am very much following his lead and not wanting to burden him with more than he's ready to deal with. It's important, for our kids especially, that we give them opportunities to succeed so that they get self belief from an early age. Without self belief they will struggle to learn, whether with you or at school. As for maths, we do real number problems. Today he collected up nuts in the garden and correctly counted that he'd got ten. He later told me that we have four cakes left and so I asked him how many cakes we will have for tomorrow if we eat two today. This is maths he is interested in and he's good at it, but he can only recognise a couple of numbers. He loves being involved in food prep and there is so much potential for number work. He also took out some playing cards today. I lined them up in order, pointed out the numbers and showed him you can count the hearts and it matches the figure on the card. He could not have been less interested and took the picture cards away to play his own game. He's only four and this isn't school so I accept that.

Who the hell told you that bobbins?

Social workers- they constantly said we would need to advocate for our children as they tend to struggle and statistically don’t achieve.
Her self care is pretty good. I’ve been trying to focus on the things she really needs to know like how to dress herself and that is going well but knowing she won’t have the chance to develop in the next few months makes me panic. She is not good at turn taking- we are playing a lot of games and demonstrating skills she will need but she just shuts off if things don’t go her way. No amount of coaxing her will bring her back and she is so insecure that any mention of a consequence has her in tears. For example I told her that if she didn’t let her brother have a turn at the game, we wouldn’t be able to play it. She just sat there refusing to give him the die and then screamed when we started to put the game away.

Social workers- they constantly said we would need to advocate for our children as they tend to struggle and statistically don’t achieve.

I think they are trying to get the message that adoption can be very challenging and people should dispel any rosie image they may have (a very important thing to get across).

I've taught adopted kids who are outstanding and those with huge challenges. I've doubtless taught many who I had no idea were adopted- I would only find out on the rare occaisions that adoption was relevant. Very, very many children who are not adopted face challenges in their education.

I think Sanders' advice above (particularly on praising effort more than achievement) is excellent. I would certainly try to do as much home teaching as is helpful, but those skills of resilience and empathy are much more important.

can I tell you about my son.
He is 15, He has autism and a learning difficulty, he would be doing his GCSEs in a few weeks if they hadnt been cancelled. He won't be coming out with a set of A* s, he won't be going to university - but he will get a decent enough set of grades to get him to college, he already has a place on a well regarded Engineering course with links to good employers, he will do ok for himself. He left school last week a Student Leader, representing his school at sports events and open days. A few days after one event we bumped into a parent he had met at an open day who told me he has been an amazing ambassador for his school.

When he came to me 8 years ago this week he was at special school, working way below national curriculum level. Thanks to an amazing teacher he made huge progress and by year 6 he was attending mainstream primary and went on to mainstream secondary. I know lots of families where there adopted kids are holding their own in school, some doing very well, some heading off to university.

Many adopted children do struggle but with time and the right support they can achieve.

My best advice to you is don't compare her to any other child, don't worry about what she should or shouldnt be achieving at any given point. Enable her to learn and develop at her own pace. We push children so hard in England, way too much pressure.
Everyone has made great points. My son would never do school work for me, I refused to do homework in primary and well into secondary. It just wasnt worth it.
Make sure you have the right school, just because its right for your son doesn't mean its right for her. Speak to the Senco as soon as you can, if she needs support in school then make sure she gets it.
And finally, relax. I think the more you push, the more she will push back. Have fun, read to her, plant seeds ( you can work a lot of number work into gardening !)
As for Covid, every child is being disrupted in so many ways, teachers will be very aware of this. The next school year will be far from 'normal'

I echo your worries. My son is due to start school in the new academic year. He is academically doing well and is thriving. Emotionally he is years behind. I worry about whether to hold him back but like your daughter, he will be one of the oldest so I don’t think that will work for us.

Arrange a meeting with school as soon as you can and talk about your daughters needs and see how they can support her. This is difficult due to what’s going on but I am sure they will put you at ease.

Also, forget academics at the moment. She is so young. She has 13 years of schooling ahead of her to learn to read and write. The teachers will meet her where she is at. They are very skilled.

focus on self regulation and emotions. These are important.
If she is dysregulated at school, she will not be able to learn. Spend the next few months working on this to support her. Not being able to cope with stress (will I get the answer wrong?) is a huge barrier to learning. Think about how to support her so that she doesn’t dysregulate in the classroom when the teacher asks a question.

You obviously love her lots. Keep showing her through games and play. Soon she will be gone all day and youll miss her. Enjoy the time you’ve been given now before she starts school. Laugh and cuddle lots because soon all you’ll be able to do is dinner and bed when she gets home from school. Make this time count

Hi,
It's really difficult isn't it. I'm a teacher and a mum to a little one who came home just before starting school. She wasn't ready (at all) and I understand the worry.
I was determined to do all I could to help her (and still am of course), but there are so many different individual factors at play. My LO has both exceeded expectations in some areas (a few years on) and struggled endlessly with other aspects of school life. She makes me so proud, she is doing BRILLIANTLY in my opinion, but would I have thought this was doing brilliantly a few years ago? Probably not. I have grieved for the 'successful ' school experience that she isn't yet having, despite being drilled in advance during training about ongoing needs.
Nobody really knows how things will turn out, but I reckon your LO has a head start with you behind them and already has what matters most in life. Year R can be a fabulous time for learning at all starting points.
I do agree though that a lot can change in a few months. My daughter has just astounded me with her skills today. Totally unrecognizable from last year!
Good luck, I'd love to hear how it goes.

Thanks guys I appreciate your kind words. I wish we followed the rest of the world sometimes and have them more time at home. I look at her and see a baby. Not a school aged child. She is keen to go though and seems to look forward to going to school like her brother so maybe that will be enough to start with.

Have you got any games like 'pop up pirate'? Short games where even if you 'lose' you win from the payoff of what happens? They might help with turn taking perhaps?

Emotional resilience is so important. It is something we haven't succeeded with, despite trying hard, with our DD2, 15. She is y10 and was struggling before this stuff happened and has now gone to pieces.

Both my DDs (or were on track to before this) outperformed expectations academically. A parent gently helping in the background, keeping up the reading and helping with maths over summer holidays can make a big difference over time. neither are A levels/uni people but that doesn't matter. If they try the best they can that is all you can ask of them.

I have not read this whole thread just your first post. I am a teacher, dyslexic specialist and most importantly mummy to two AC , 4&5! My son is just nearing the end of reception (P1 where we are) and I can tell you now he had no letter recognition or sound recognition before September. He could count to 10 but not reliably beyond that. He did have good pencil grip and could write his own name but that was it! We are Northern Ireland and none of this is covered in nursery, maybe it is in England. Nursery is about developing social skills, working in gross and fine motor skills, language development, phonemic awareness (gearing rhyme, rhythm etc) not formal letter, sound and number work. My son is at and beyond where he should be in terms of letter/soy chicken knowledge, word recognition and number awareness. He was ready to learn when he went to school and acquired all that knowledge in P1(reception)! I would not expect your child to have all that now! Don’t panic!!

Sorry letter/soy children should read letter/sound recognition a stupid auto correct.

Try not to worry, my DD cane to us just ahead of going into P2 (Scottish system so she was 6). She could t count to 19, didn’t know her alphabet, couldn’t recognise or spell her name. Three years on and she’s doing much better, still delayed but gaining ground all the time. Schools are used to working with children at their pace - in saying that I picked a school that were very aware on a practical level the challenges adopted children can face (the HT had adopted so her staff are very aware). In your shoes I’d talk to the school and see what provision is in place fir children who are a bit delayed.

My LO is the opposite. She knows her alphabet and can count to 20 easily, 30 if she concentrates hard but she can only do it at home where she feels safe. She's learnt them from watching various YouTube songs, Numberblocks, etc. Pretty sure that if it's not taught her by song she can't get it. Plus she goes into survival mode in school and finds it all very overwhelming.

I personally think your putting yourself and your wee one under a lot of pressure.
Play games and do activities for fun and enjoy them, then learning will come with it.

I'd focus on building up her resilience, playing games that she might lose (snap etc,board games, card games, whatever) and coping with losing.

I would not worry about school work.

I think being as comfortable and well-rounded as possible will do the best for any kid, so cooking together (safely), arty stuff etc. And not actual school work.

It will be fine

Don't know if this would help but my DD (birth child) used to hate doing her reading aloud - she wasn't particularly bad at it but she just hated it for some reason.

What worked was giving her a Teddy and suggesting that Teddy do it. When a mistake was made I would say "Ask Teddy to look at that one again" or similar. Teddy ended up doing quite a lot of reading and numbers.

Might be worth giving it a try - nothing lost if it doesn't work!

Beware the whole "You're a clever girl, you can give me the right answer'. To her, it means if she gives the wrong one, she's not clever. Say very solemnly " I need you to give me the wrong answer" and cheer when she does. You have to take away the fear of failing to help a child take the risk of trying and failing.