Another IVF or Adoption?

[sunshinesandwaves]

Hi all
Hoping for some insight and maybe a bit of advice.

Our story, in brief is as follows:

I am 31,DH is 36. We have been TTC since 2015 and eventually got diagnosed with MFI in 2016. Started IVF in 2017 and since then have had 3 fresh cycles, 2 cancelled transfers and 4 transfers. Our 2nd transfer resulted in a BFP which sadly resulted in a late loss of our little boy at 16 weeks due to incompetent cervix. I had a premature labour followed by a d&c.

We have a plan in place for any further pregnancy and top professor has agreed to stitch my cervix at 11 weeks. However since the loss last year we have had two transfers which have resulted in chemical pregnancies.

Awaiting a referral for a hystoscopy to check that there is no scarring from last years events. We have one frozen embryo. DH isn't keen on more IVF, largely due to the fact he hates how the medication impacts on my mental health. He wants us to pursue adoption and start moving on with our lives.

Similarly, I acknowledge I do struggle with the meds- I know that adoption isn't going to be a walk in the park either and at least I kind of know what to expect with IVF (even if it's bloody hard!) I'm also not sure if I'm ready to let go of the chance to be pregnant again, but on the other hand I do recognise that we have lived our life on hold for so long and we have so much to offer a child who needs it.

We paid upfront for 2 cycles so to transfer the remaining frozen embryo will only be the cost of the meds, so cost isn't a huge factor in this at the mo. Although if we did go on to require a whole other fresh cycle, this would be a factor to consider.

I guess what I'm asking is for those of you who have made the decision to walk away from IVF, how did you come to the decision and when do you know if it's time to walk away?

Hope that this isn't triggering for anyone.

Sounds so hard. A tough decision. Have you considered Embryo adoption? Or Sperm donation the turkey baster way? Again, big decisions, but families are all different shapes and sizes...

How long will it take to see if the final egg is successful? Could you bear to see it destroyed if you don't use it?

Realistically for adoption you will be expected to prove that you are pursuing adoption as a positive in itself and that you have come to terms with the fact you're IVF was unsuccessful.

Does your husband understand what modern adoption means? Have either of read up on attachment and trauma issues and are you aware of the prevalence of FASD (foetal alcohol spectrum disorder) among adopted children today?

Thanks both for your answers.

Embryo adoption is very costly and despite our results my embryos are good quality so there's no real justification for going down that route at this time but it might be something I can mention to the clinic. IUI (Turkey baster) is another option although has lower success rates although less drugs which would be great!

@ifchocolatewerecelery Thankfully my best friend is a social worker in a fostering team of a local authority so has given us lots of information around the complexities of different issues we may come up against with adoption including foetal alcohol syndrome. My parents have been foster carers for many years and I have worked for years with young people leaving care so am fortunate that I don't think either of us are going into this blind or naive that this is going to be easy or that it's the magic solution to our fertility struggles. We know that any child we are blessed to have placed with us is going to need additional support.

My question was really around how did people who have been in our situation recognise that it was time to move on and how was that transition for them.

@ifchocolatewerecelery sorry I missed your first question.
For a frozen IVF embryo cycle it would take around 6 weeks start to finish depending on the clinics waiting times. I'd imagine the soonest we could get booked in would be to start in October. From then I'd have to take a selection of drugs to shut down my reproductive system and put it into a menopausal type state. Then when my body is ready for the transfer the embryo is transferred and then there's a 2 week wait to find out whether it has worked or not.
It's incredibly difficult and ultimately completely out of anyone's control. I know there's plenty of amazing ladies out there who have done this more times than me but my body is really feeling the impact now of having gone through 6 (fresh and frozen) cycles of drugs in 2 years.

You are still young (in both adoption and IVF terms). Can you take a break for a while and see how you feel in a year or so? You could use the time to research adoption in more depth, perhaps get some counselling and to give yourself a complete break from the grind of fertility treatment. See how you feel after things have settled.

I sense a 'what if' in your post that might be difficult to come to terms with if you go directly to adoption and you may be pushed in the adoption assessment to process to examine these feelings. I wonder if it would be easier to eventually come to adoption positively if you try a final cycle with that last remaining embryo first.

Good luck

Hi Sunshine,
In your shoes I'd opt for waiting a while, transferring your final embryo and seeing what happens.
If you start the adoption process you'll need for IVF to be 'behind you'. It's not like you could adopt and then decide to see if things work out with the embryo. Well of course you could but not a good idea for many reasons which you'll understand given the input from your friend and your parents.

Have you and DH had any counselling to process the loss of your little boy, and how the IVF process has affected you? Is there any chance he is keen to move on to adoption due to MFI and he feels to blame? Or afraid of another loss?

Not to be blasé about the drugs and the effects on you, but having been through IVF myself I think the process rather than the drugs specifically is more likely the reason for the effect on mental health.

I've been lurking here for a while (professional interest and personal as have fertility issues) and do recall a few posters who did decide to start the adoption process before using up all their embryos, maybe one of them will reply. But it would not be the right choice for me personally.

Good luck to you both

We had IUI, successful on second attempt when I was nearly 40, fertility issues with us both.

Tried for another baby when dd was almost 2, had a missed misscarriage, and then loads of complex treatment, which included donor eggs and finished up having 2 fresh and one frozen cycle.

In your shoes I would definitely give your final embryo an attempt if safe to do so for you. I think it is quite difficult for your dh to say he is ready to stop fertility treatment, if you are not.

Adoption is great, we adopted our son about two years after the final treatment, waited about 6 months then a 20 month process. he has been with us over 5 years and is now 9. I would not swap him but I really needed to get to a place where I was ready to stop treatment. My eggs were no good in the end but actually my womb seemed to be a very hostile place too! We spent thousands trying. I do not regret it, it was what we needed to do.

I think your dh and you need to discuss this, work together.

We didn't give our final embryos a try. In fact I think they're still in a freezer. I hated every moment of IVF. After 6 years of ttc, 6 years of hoping before every period, 6 years of having my life on hold while yearning for a family all IVF gave me was horrific emotional mood swings, two failed cycles and a miscarriage. I just couldn't do it any more. I have unexplained infertility and the consultants weren't going to change my protocol at all and I just couldn't do it again. My husband watched me slowly fall apart in front of him throughout IVF and told me before the second cycle that we could stop whenever I needed to.
There were so many reasons for us not to continue.

1. We don't need our own biological baby. It really is that simple. Try the remaining embryo if that is what you need and want but all we want is a family and as I've explained to my 6yr nephew. Not all families start with a baby.
2. Life had to move on. I read stories on mumsnet forums of all these women going through IVF. Those on their 10th cycle, 5th miscarriage. Those who were so desperate to have a biological baby that their lives had stopped and I didn't want that to be us. We had already lost so much time and changed so much through our IVF we decided enough is enough.
3. I am very lucky to work with children who live with trauma in a variety of stages, many of whom are in foster care. While going through IVF I sat with a foster carer while we discussed her child's progress and we discussed his future as he was about to start the adoption process and I thought to myself what am I doing! Here is a child with an enormous amount of love to give and here we are able to give that love.

I think most people will tell you to use the embryo but the way i look at it is this.....I have some incredible friends who are amazing mothers. Raising their biological children to be beautiful and kind people. They were born to have their own children. My husband and I have the ability to open ourselves up and create a family in a different way. Its no less than the family they have created, it's just different and a family is our ultimate goal.

We're getting very close to panel and I don't dwell too much on how hard life will be with adopted children. I'm not naive I just don't want the struggles to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sorry, i hit post too soon although that is a very long post.
Only you can decide when enough is enough and if you should stop IVF. Every one here will have a different story but only you know what you want deep down and that should be your deciding factor. If it's a biological baby then use the embryo first.

Good luck and sorry for the rambling.

Runner31 I'm so sorry to read your story. We were attempting to have a baby for about that length of time too.

It was slightly different because we had managed a baby by iui first.

I really remember feeling so fed up by the end and ready to stop! My husbsnd was injecting drugs into my tummy to combat an immunology issue. There was an alarm to tell him when to do it and I grew to dread the sound of the alarm!

I was 100% ready to stop.

I agree with you tRunner that the OP needs to decide for herself.

I did say give the last embryo a chance because that is what I did. It was my choice and for me gave a sense of closure.

But I agree with you if the OP* doesn't want to have that last embryo implanted then she doesn't 'need to' do it, it's a choice.

Although it is a joint venture with your husband, OP I have to say as the female you will physically 'bear the brunt' of treatment and pregnancy. And I believe you are the one who will know really when enough is enough.

For us also lack of finances was a factor. And, although I do not regret the treatment, I am glad we stopped when we did - and very glad we adopted our lovely little boy.

Also, for me, it was not about a biological child since we used donner eggs.

Good luck OP and good luck to you too", Runner.

@Italiangreyhound I totally agree about bearing the brunt of IVF and pregnancy. I fell in love with my husband all over again due to his total acceptance of what was happening to me emotionally and physically and the impact IVF had already had on me.

We had discussed adoption before IVF which probably made our decision a bit easier but it really is such an individual decision. Something I learned when we were going through IVF was both of us had to have time to process events as they happened individually and make peace with things ourselves before we could even discuss in depth important decisions which needed to be made as a couple. It made our feelings more valid and clear when it came to talking through them.

Runner

Firstly - thank you so much to each of you for taking the time to help with our dilemma and to share your experiences.

@asandwichnamedkevin - I think you are so right with what you said about the process of IVF impacting me rather than the drugs. I don't know if I have ever thought of it like that. I find the process almost debilitating in that it takes over everything and yet I have very little control over any of it or indeed the outcome. My DH does shoulder an awful lot of guilt over the fact that I have put my body through an awful lot because of something he feels is his 'fault' which of course it isn't. I have had CBT previously as following the loss of our son last year I was diagnosed with Generalised anxiety and PTSD. I found the skills incredibly helpful but as soon as I started IVF I found my learning went out of the window. I have discussed with DH and he has agreed that -especially if we are going to look to adopt - but before we make any firm decisions, he is going to seek some help of his own.

Runner and Greyhound - thanks so much for sharing your stories too. I agree that the process of coming to terms with IVF after it hasn't worked is very individual. I find I am sad for a few days immediately after but I bounce back fairly quickly. (possibly a relief from no more medications or the dreaded routine....or the dreaded alarm to do injections!!!!) Whereas DH seems to take longer to heal. Similarly following the loss of our son, we both deal with and express things differently.

We have our follow up at our clinic next week following the last cycle. I am going to enquire about the process of a natural frozen cycle and see what response I get. We will also continue to find out more about adoption too.

Sunshine I am sorry to hear you had/have PTSD. I've not experienced EDMR (Eye movement desensitization and reprocessin) but heard it is good and available on the NHS.

Good luck with the process for if and/or adoption.

Just to point out that the adoption agency will want to know that you have closed the book to IVF, and that you have dealt with that loss..... And many require that you use contraception during the adoption process. This is because it is costly for the local authorities to process adoption (lots of meetings, court hearings, panels).

Hi @Hitchyhero we had heard about this and I guess each LA/agency will have different approaches to what they consider to be finished with IVF. I'd hope they wouldn't expect us to destroy our embryo or anything like that. We do have medical evidence that we have a zero percent chance of a natural pregnancy so hopefully that would suffice... heaven knows I don't think I could handle going back on microgynon or similar!

They will only know about the last embryo if you tell them. Another poster on here as written they have no idea what's happened to theirs but have successfully gone on to adopt. When they want to make sure you have finished with IVF what they are actually saying is that firstly you cannot do IVF and adoption simultaneously not can you adopt whilst pregnant and they like a minimum of 2 years between youngest birth child and adopted. Secondly they don't want you to get so far down the adoption process and back out because you suddenly realise that you really want a birth child after all, an adopted child cannot be viewed as a (poor) substitute to a birth one. It's about being able to show in your responses that you have moved on emotionally from IVF.

If you genuinely have zero chance of conceiving due to infertility the. You won't be expected to use birth control but if there is a small chance than you will be expected to use it pretty much until the order is granted. I went back on the pill but we ended using condoms instead because it no longer agreed with me.

We had tried for over 6 years and with very intensive treatment we had not had a successful pregnancy. We were not asked to use contraceptives. If we had been asked to do so we would have used condoms and I would not have worried too much about it.

It was suggested to me that we use contraception. I wasn't that keen to begin with but when I thought about it it made perfect sense.

There was a poster on here a while ago who was told they had to destroy their last remaining frozen embryo as 'proof' they had really moved on from the idea of IVF and were suitable adopters. I remember their pain and distress at the decision but don't remember what happened.

I agree that a SW will only know yours exists if you tell them, but I suppose the question to ask yourself is why you might want to hold on to yours even if you're going down the adoption route.

Having embryos stored is a very unusual feeling, well it was for us. Exactly what to do when you come to the end of treatment, as far as I remember you need to pay to keep them stored so you are asked every so many years if you need to keep storing them.

I also agree that they will only know if you tell them. If you say we had our last IVF 6 months ago they will most likely not pursue it. But better to agree together what you will say, if one of you mentions the embryo and the other does not it could look unusual.

If a couple were against using contravention it does maybe feel like they may not be ready to move on as they may still be hoping for a 'miracle'. I certainly would not have risked anything like contraceptive pill if it did not agree with me but condoms would have been OK.

By the time we were matched to our little one I really would not have wanted to pregnancy or anything to have got in the way of our son joining us. A year or so before i would have been delighted by a pregnancy but by the time we got through the prep I was ready to adopt.

DH and I have been trying to conceive for around three years now, we found out we both have infertility issues. I'm at high risk of ectopic pregnancy so was advised to stop trying naturally (which made that decision somewhat simple) and were were also told that IVF would be our only safe chance of getting pregnant.

I had C-PTSD after a traumatic attack some years ago, and although I'm much better now and fully functioning after CBT I still have the odd bad day - my hormones definitely play a part in my mental health. I know I'm not strong enough to handle the IVF journey/rollercoaster so it's been a tough but relatively easy decision to come to terms with not continuing with any treatment.

I'd always thought 'no' to adoption but strangely as soon as I came to terms with not being to have my own biological child, it very suddenly feels like the exact right thing to do.

I will take 12 months to let everything sink in before making my first enquiry to adopt, but there absolutely comes a point when you can say 'no more' - it's so individual. When you know, you know.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hi @DrizzleKicks thanks so much for sharing your experience.

For what it's worth, I think it's so brave of anybody to acknowledge that they don't want to put themselves into the IVF rollercoaster before they even start. At the beginning it's very easy to be naive about it, especially when you have medical professionals encouraging you to consider it. Ultimately, it's a real slog of a journey and the success rates are not great and only improve over multiple cycles.

So great that you're taking a step back to allow the decision to be absorbed.

Wishing you all the very best xx

I've found reading this thread really helpful - thank you everyone who has posted, and to the OP.
I'm at the very beginning of applying to be an adoptive parent.
After 5 years of trying to start a family, sub-fertility, a diagnosis of endometriosis, with all the physical pain and fatigue that brings, and 3 miscarriages, including a late miscarriage at 16 weeks, I heaved a sigh of relief when I went onto the progesterone only pill following the last miscarriage earlier this year. This was followed by much soul-searching, ongoing counselling, and now, with my husband, we're getting started on the preparation to adopt. It's exciting, and it's scary, and at times I do find myself fantasising about having my own biological baby - a 'miracle'. But, when I look at it rationally I know adoption is the right thing for us now to build a family. That's not to dismiss the disappointment, grief and loss of not carrying a baby to term.
I can also really relate to what @Runner31 said about falling in love with her husband again - my husband has been amazing and in particular has reminded me that the level of pain from the endometriosis I was experiencing was not normal when I was at the stage of normalising the toll it was taking on my wellbeing.

In answer to the OP's question, we never had IVF because we did manage to get pregnant naturally (but each time it took 1yr+ and ended in miscarriage) so I can't imagine what it is like to stop IVF. However, for us, we put ttc on hold after a very traumatic miscarriage at 12 weeks which ended in a late-night dash to A&E. Also, ttc had eaten away at our confidence, our ability to plan ahead, and for me the physical pain and exhaustion of the endometriosis was very problematic (and could only be solved with drugs making conception impossible). It has been helpful to not completely rule out trying again, but to focus on opening a new door to a family and seeing where that takes us. If we do go back to ttc we know we need to do this soon because of age, but being so final about it was very upsetting. Finding a counsellor to work through all the feelings about this has been really helpful - I appreciate not everyone is in the position to be able to pay for this unfortunately, and I've also found journalling helpful, as well as being relatively open about the journey with our friends and family.
Oops, such an essay! Good luck to you and your partner, whatever you decide