new to all this - need some guidance

[herbaceous]

After a couple of years of miscarriages and the dawning that we may well never have our own children, we've decided to look into adoption.

I realise there's lots of psychological stuff to work through - I'm getting there - but as the whole process seems to take so long, thought I'd better get cracking.

Could anyone tell me:

1 How much difference does it make if we're married or not (as only one non-married partner can be the adopter)? We're not, but as we will marry one day wondered if it was worth hurrying down the aisle!

2 We'd like a young child, as it will be our first, and possibly only. How much difference does maternal/paternal age make? I'm 41 and DP is 31 - would they 'average us out'?

3 Can you be signed up with more than one agency at once, to maximise chances of a good match? Or is that frowned on?

4 How easy is it there days to adopt from abroad - India or China, probably - and which are the best agencies? Or how do I find out?

Sorry for all the Qs - as you can see, I'm a bit new to it all, but don't want to set off down a wrong track that will take a long time to get out of...

Thanks!

I live in a white area - there are very few adoptions of young children sadly I don;t think your cahcnes will be any better.

I do agree that it is better for a child to be placed with a loving family of any colour but don't underestimate the difficulty a child can have in these circumstances. On balance a permanent family is still better than care in my opinion.

hi herbaceous, have you actually enquired about concurrent planning with your la? if not do so as it is different from regular adoption. we went with coram who were fantastic, they are based in central london, they are also very popular so i would get onto them asap. we now know lots of adopters who have gone thru them and one of the things they stress thru concurrent planning is the uncertanty of it all, possibility of baby going back, but you do get the chance of a very young baby. most people had like you been turned down by their la and this was the only way. they also stress, because of these babys backgrounds there are health issues, possibly serious ones which you wont know about untill possibly you have adopted them. i now know about 9 children over 5 and 2 have serious problems, the others are fine. you have to decide what you could cope with. hope this helps.

Thanks. I have been in touch with Coram, and they're supposed to be ringing me back.

Another vexing thing was the woman from the local authority asked me how much experience we had of children. The truth is, not much, outside nephews and nieces. Like many 'natural' parents. I have a feeling I'm going to have to start stretching the truth in this area...

dont worry about that, we only had the same expierience, start thinking about who you want as a reference for your home study, they will meet them at length. you could nominate brother or sister and do a bit of babysitting for them, by the time it comes around you wont have to tell fibs.in our second adoption the foster fed back in detail what she had seen, all the little things i had learnt with the first one really gave a good impression, changing , feeding etc.

I was generous with the truth in describing my relationship with my neices and nephews, which whilst close mostly involved someone else babysitting and nappy changing. mY sister was my family referee and went along with it...

looking after someone elses kids is in no way similar to having your own anyway

hifi - i think your comments about the risk involved in the concurrent planning model are very realistic. I have heard similar figures anecdotally - about 20% of children have major problems, 20% minor and 60% seems OK.

(I realise that these are very loose defininitions of probelsm)

Also as you will know , a lot of the "soft" neurological damage associated with pre-natal substance abuse doesnt really show up until about 7-8 ish years old, and many mental health problems will not become clinically significant until teenage years ( not that they wont have been significant to the child and their family before that)

I have no idea how "up front" Coram are with prospective adopters about these issues. Its its easier to understand & accept the short term risk of a baby leaving your care than to grapple with these big long term risks. its also hard to imagine how an issue like foetal alcohol effects woudl actually impact your family life.................

hi KristinaM, coram really stress the possible health outcomes, so much so you are actually surprised any of these children are "normal". you really have to think about these implications,we did to some degree but you are so desperate you become a little blinkered, we went ahead with our adoption without the results of a hep test, it wouldnt have changed our decision if she was positive, the social workers advised us against going ahead without it.you are not prepared for the future as in what could develop, we have already had a health scare and dd peadiatrition has warned us to look out for certain things as she gets older, adhd etc. you dont know whats around the corner, but would you with a birth child?

no you are right, there are no guarantees with a birth child, but there are many other risk from the drug/alcohol/family history as you know. If i were adopting from Coram I woudl be much more worried about FAS, attachment disorder, serious mental health problems and learning difficuties than HepB. But thats just me............

Its really encouraging to hear that Coram are honest with prospective adopters - so many agncies just mutter things like " we are sure that these things will settle down once she is adopted" . And its very easy for desperate parenst to fool themselves into thinking " well they are only a few weeks old and they look fine....................."

I'm so pleased that your Dd is doing so well . I'm sure she brings you much joy

no guarantees with a birth child but I'd be amazed if any of mine had FAE/FAS given I drink about 1 glass of wine a month! (Notice I haven't had multiple birth children rather than just the one )

I too took on a big potential risk with DS due to his extreme prematurity and insitutional delays. How I was relatively sensible and took advice on his likely problems and decided that I probably could cope with the most likely problems (moderate to mild CP in his case). However the doctor I consulted did say to me "of course the real question is - can you walk away from him at this point". And the truth like you hifi is that I couldn't.

People think that by adopting a younger child ie under 1yr (either here or abroad) means you avoid all the problems. It pisses me off no end that people think by going overseas I get a healthy young baby. At 11 months at first meeting and 14 months home DS was hardly a baby and his health was unfact very uncertain and not likely to become certain for some time. You do get certain things in exchange for the uncertainty - generally fewer problems with attachment due to their age (depending of course on their circumstances prior to placement) and a cahnce for you, the parent to nurture a younger child.

i think its pretty relaistic to say that its extremely difficult (not impossibel) for a white family to adopt a healthy low risk baby under a year old. Whether they adopt domestically or overseas.

i think until a few years ago it was little easier if you were a mixed race family, or a very young ( 20s) practising Roman Catholic couple, but i think that is now changing as well.

As you say KC, most of the children from abroad have unknown backgrounds and probably other risk fators and they tend to be about a year at the youngest when they coem home

Most of the children available for adoption here in the UK have special needs fo variouis kinds and are often over 2 or in sibling groups. apart from the concurrent planing model of course

i know there are lots of mumsnetters who post here saying that they are having trouble TTC and are thinknig of adoption. i have got a lot of stick in the past for saying to them - you need to be absolutely sure that you have reached the end of your personal jounney towards having a bio child. the end of the road is diffenert for eveyone. BUt I knwo that all these people posting are dreaming of a tiny healthy baby placed in their arms and they wont get that with adoption.

They will of course get other things they coudlnt have imagined. But its not the same experinece - really its not. Not better or worse, just different.

The adoption process is very long and arduous. i woudlnt want them to get a year or two down the adoptioin route then wish they has just tried one more treatment etc. Because by that time ( usually) it will be too late. If they go back to assisted conception treatment they will lose out on ever having the chance to adopt. And their chances of conceiving & giving birth are probably very low

I agree Kristina, I was very clear that I was at the end of the road and I think many people don't appreciate teh potential problems. However I do think there is quite a high drop out rate after the prep course (in ICA at least) because people are faced with a reality they were not really prepared for.

I'm a mad fool because I went through the course sticking my fingers in my ears going "lalalalalala", I was so desperate to have a child. I did listen to all teh problems and discuss them but didn't really grasp what ot meant until confronted with DS's issues and faced the decision of living my life with his potential problems or turning him down.

Perhaps if you are mental enough to go ahead in the face of such uncertainty then you are in fact ready to parent a child with those problems!

Ironically (as it has turned out) the donor I used for DI during my IVF has produced several severely autistic children and is beleived to carry a genetic predisposition and has been barred from donating.

Hi folks, I've been reading your fascinating discussion (and looking at your wonderful photos).
Adoption and its issues have suddenly become closer to home for me as my elder sister has confided that she and her DH have discussed it and want to take things further. She has already found lots of info, and is going along to a local authority fact finding evening next month. They have one birth child a DD aged 7.
My DS is now 47. Is it right that they would be expected to have not more than 45 years between my sister's age and that of any child they might adopt? They were thinking about a toddler/pre-schooler, certainly a younger child than their DD.
And I find this so hard to type without it sounding like a shopping list! Forgive any gaffes, that's certainly not how they are approaching it.

they would be expected to adopt younger than any birth children with a minumum 2 year gap (some councils expect more) so they would be looking at a 5yr old or younger. Tehre isn;t a legal requirement for a minimum age gao between parent and child but certazinly as a rule of thumb 40-45 is what most SW's would expect.

Any child under two (or is it three?) is consider to be a "baby" and are in demand and will be placed with the most desirable parents - younger, SAHM, no existing DC's or reasonable age gap so younger adopted child gets good time and attention.

Having said all of that, there are no firm rules so it will vary council by council by voluntary agency and your sisters council should be able to tell her what kind of children they would be likely to be approved for.

does annoy me when people saythey want to adopt to give a child a good home, usually those with birth children, they wont realise just how difficult it is to stay the course, all the uncertanty, false hope etc, dont know how we did it twice, third time hopefully at xmas, we must be fools, if you are not desperate you dont usually follow it thru.i had to drag dh thru the second one and kick him under the table at the numerous meetings, he bacame so beligerent.

head girl - it doenst sounds like a shopping list. its important to be realistic about the kind of child you think you can parent

head girl - i have been wondering whether to say thsi or not.........

your sister is going to be 50 by the time she gets a child. i stromgly suspect that she has no virtually no chance of adopting a baby or toddler here in the Uk, unless she could parent a child with significant special needs. I hope the agency that she approaches tell her this straight and dont piss her about for months

if she were my sister i woudl advise her to get adopt from overseas if she is really serious about adding to her family

i woudl also think very hard about how it will impact all their lives and esp her DD who will be 10 by then. and many of their freinds will be planning their retirement

sorry if this sounds harsh - i am speaking from experince her as i am 45 and my youngest two children are 3 and 1. But I knwo she will think its easy for me to say as i have loads of kids............

Kristina - thanks for your honesty. I had wondered this myself, although would it make a diff that my BIL is 9 years younger? As for special needs, my own DD3 has severe learning diffs, and my DS is wonderful with her. I asked her if having a neice with SN would make her more open to considering a child with SN herself. She said No as she wants to be able to support me when my DD3 needs care in adulthood. This made me sad, but I know what she means....
I think the spur for all this has come from working in child health and coming into contact with cases of abuse and neglect. And also that she thinks having a sibling would benefit her own DD.
I don't know how far she will go along this road, as you and others have said its not an easy choice. But I'll support her as far as she takes it, even if, and especially if, I end up with a neice or nephew. But I recognise disappointment is a distinct possibility

you sounds very realistic and supportive

re the age thing - I think the official SS line will be that they will take the age of the younger parent, but i suspect that in practice any SW placing a younger child whould be very put off by her age and would go for another couple ( they would always be competeing with other families). they insist that if you adopt a younger child, one of you stops work. Officually it doenst matter which. in practice, they will always favour a SAHM.

Re her feelings about SN kids, I think that if she doesn't feel she could parent a child with SN she should not even consider adopting a child who has been abused or neglected! I am tempted to ask what area of child health she works in - i cant believe that she does not know that the prognosis for many children who have been severely neglected or abused is very poor .

I'm sorry, I'm aware that i must sound very unsympathetic ..............

maybe someone else will come along soon and be more positive and upbeat

Maybe they will Kristina - but maybe you are just telling it like it is, and there is no way to be more positive about it. Re. what my sis knows about the prognosis of ill treated children - I suspect she doesn't know the full picture, she works in an admin capacity so wouldn't know the individuals and their stories in depth. Even I, as registered nurse for adults, am aware that I probably only know the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks for your response though, I may be in touch again, depending on how far this goes...

you do sound like a lovely sister

Sounds like you have enough on your plate anyway, with your own family situation. We had a child with very profound SN ( bio not adopted), so I know a little of what its like

sadly, early abuse and especailly neglect is profoundly damaging to children and many of them will have very serious problems that seem very resistant to therapy. Not that there is much help for these kids here in the UK

I suspect that the practicalities of it all will dissuade your DS in the end. And by the time your niece is 10, she will be much less bothered about not having a sibling and more intertested in hanging out with her friends. If they want to adopt from abroad they need to get a move on and research couuntries & get an agency to approve them

Hello, me again.

I'm going to an open evening tomorrow night, held by the north london adoption consortium. What sort of thing goes on? Can I ask stupid questions without it going down as a black mark?

so far we've been turned down by three London LAs, so I'm not that hopeful that they'll take any interest in us. it's rather frustrating when all LAs pump adverts out all the time saying 'adopt, adopt...' and then when you try, they say 'er, no... not you'.

Am trying to get interest out of Coram, but they're being remarkably slow and unhelpful.

By the way, interesting article on the Telegraph website about how easy it is to adopt from America. so, that's an option!

hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa.

Sorry, got a grip now.

Adopting overseas is not easy. It may be in the country you choose eg America but you have to go through all the same procedure here before hand homestudy etc. It generaly takes just as long. The only positive aspect to adopting from overseas is that there is no matching socail worker to say that you are not the "right" parent ie too old, too young, too many children already not mixed race etc etc.

Note to self... must find Telegraph article and read why it is so easy to adopt from the US.

On a different note - I would htink stupid questionsa re just fine provided they are not any of the absolute no-no's, the only two I can think of off-hand would be:

"it isn't a problem that I believe in smacking children is it?"
"my drug/alcohol/smoking habit won't count against me will it?"

Hope you enjoy it.