Birth mother pregnant again. Don't know what to do.

[Rainatnight]

Apologies, this is long. Please feel free to fast forward to the actual questions at the end.

DD is two and a bit, was placed nearly 18 months ago. Doing really well, we love her enormously and she is amazing.

I'd always assumed I'd have two kids, and up till recently really hankered after a second. Looked slightly longingly at families with a toddler and a baby, that kind of thing. And in fact, when I heard of people who had adopted and were getting a second, I felt quite envious.

But then, those feelings went away and I began to feel as though things were just perfect the way they are. DD is doing really well, DP and I are on the old side, let's just leave it as it is.

And THEN - we found out a few days ago that BM is pregnant again - due next month - and I'm completely thrown.

I feel really, really ambivalent and I don't know what to do for the best.

It would be so lovely for DD to have a full sibling in the same family (she has lots of halves, whom she can't have contact with). And, like I say, I thought this was the family I always wanted.

But I worry about so much. The impact on DD now - quite newly placed and being 'ousted' from her position - and the impact on her in the long term, because we just don't know how a new baby will turn out. That's my biggest worry.

And then there's just the feeling of not rocking a steady boat. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And other clichés about the value of the status quo.

And we'd find it tricky though not impossible professionally and financially. I'm not long back at work after taking time out to look after DD, and DP is adamant it's a bad time in her work (I don't quite get that but that may be a whole other thread, and it could just be a panic reaction for which I don't blame her!).

And we are OLD. (Have I mentioned? ) Extending the baby years and feeling more tired feels a bit scary at the moment.

And yet, and yet. DD's little sibling. And DD has brought us SO much joy. Who can argue against more joy?

So my questions are:

If you've been in this position, what did you do and why?

How have you found the shift from one to two, if that's what you've done (through whatever means)?

Thank you for reading.

How do you know the baby will be given up for adoption?

I think you need to remember too that even as biological parents you have a "WTF ARE WE DOING" moment about going from 1 to 2. I'm weeks off of giving birth and I am thinking of everything from how on Earth you do bathtime with a boisterous toddler and a baby, to how the hell im going to survive on no sleep. And we planned this... and have had 7 months to get used to the idea! I'm not surprised you're unsure, I've had various unsure wobbles but the difference is I don't have a choice so I've just had to work through the wobbles. It must be so hard having that choice! To possibly upset the Apple cart... or complete your family!

I don't really have anything more constructive to say, only that what you're feeling sounds totally normal!

We have two. Same thing happened as you. 18 months apart. It's bloody brilliant.

Two is haaard. Harder than one, at least as big a jump again. When they are both little it's incredibly exhausting. As the elder reached school age it's become easier, but the first 2 years or so were tough.

Still I'd do it again every time. They are so fab with each other. DD1 really looks after DD2 and DD2 follows DD1 around copying her every move. About 10% of the time they fight like cat and dog, but it's manageable.

Caselgarcia, very very few children are 'given up' for adoption in this country. Most are removed and placed for adoption because of a significant and sustained risk of harm. For various reasons that I can't go into here, there is every reason to believe that this will be the outcome in this case.

StillMissV, thanks for the support. The difficulty with adopting is that kids are likely to experience difficulties further down the line and so the apple cart could be more upset. Does that make any sense? But yes, agree that many of the worries are the same, and the timeframe doesn't help!

All that said. You should be a bit selfish. Don't have another because you should. Don't take on more than you can manage. Your daughter is your priority- there is nothing unreasonable about stopping at one.

That said, if you want another, and you feel you are able, this is a really nice way for it to happen.

Thank you, don. Yes, that's one of the worries. Balancing feeling like I should be being honest about what I want to do. This may sound weird, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job of mumming so far. I feel more confident in doing it than in lots of things I've done in my life. But what if I can't do it with two? And it's hard not to feel a sense of responsibility, thought I'm trying to be quite hard headed about that.

How did you square the impact of any future issues with the decision to go ahead? (If you don't mind saying)

I have no idea what this sentence means - 'Balancing feeling like I should be being honest about what I want to do'. I think I meant to say balancing what I feel I should do, with what I want to do, while not really being sure what I want to do.

First question: I haven't been in your position.

Second question: I had one birth child and adopted a second. At time of placement my birth son was roughly two and a half. I did FtA so I took home a baby with very little notice. Baby was also on abstinence program due to drug exposure. It was tough. My two year old was incredibly jealous. He would pretend to be a baby himself. He would say he wanted the baby to go bk to the hospital. Although I had experience with a newborn. A newborn going through withdrawal was a very different experience. Although it was tough it was worth it. The kids now have an incredible bond. Seeing them play together absolutely melts my heart.

If the social workers approached us if bm fell pregnant again our answer would be no. You have to really want a child not do it out of obligation and I know we'd struggle to manage more. We'd ask for direct contact.

Good luck with your decision.

What if BM has a third or a forth? At what point do you say I can't take anymore?

We adopted for a second time last year. A bigger gap than your position and not biologically related.

We've been lucky because our circumstances mean that we've both been at home for most of the time, so DD1 has actually had more time with my DW than she's used to. That though is why the transition from 1 to 2 has been (relatively) smooth for us.

I felt like you about rocking the boat and over the past year issues have emerged re DD1 and a diagnosis, which if we'd known about pre-DD2 we might not have spread ourselves to adopt a second one. BUT, but, but...DD2 is here now and she's wonderful. We can and do meet both children's needs. The relationship between the girls, most of the time, is the most beautiful thing. DD1 is undoubtedly DD2's favourite person in the world and for DD1 it's so important to her to have another person who is really hers.

It can be hard going, but on balance I'm so glad we went ahead. However, for us and our situation, we really needed this 2:2 ratio we've had this year to get things bedded in. Only you will know your capacity.

Best of luck with your decision.

Our birth daughter was 9 and I was 49 when we adopted our son, aged three.

The first couple of years were tough but I am so glad we did.

In your shoes I'd probably go for it but be clear with each other and sociak workers this is it. No more after two.

However if you really cannot manage the thought of two then say no and pursue contact when and if the child is adopted.

This is not your responsibility.

If you do have a second I would see if any money is available to lighten to load.

And whatever you do, do not feel guilty, dd is your priority.

Either way I expect it will turn out OK. I think the 'work' will be yours and your dd will be fine. That is how it has been for us.

And my dd loves her brother even if at times she really has resented his arrival in the family!

I haven’t been in your situation but have often wondered what I’d do if our DS’s BM gets pregnant again. My gut feeling is that we’d say no. DS is wonderful, settled and thriving. But what effect would the addition of another sibling have on him? Obviously we can’t answer that without a crystal ball, but for me, this risks are too great.
I recognise that people might think this selfish of me, but is being an ‘only child’ really so bad? Most of my friends have single children and they have grown up to be wonderful human beings so I don’t consider it to be negative. While it is lovely to have a sibling, it’s also lovely to have a settled childhood when one has already been through so much loss, upset and trauma. I don’t think I could put this at risk for the chance to have a sibling living with us.

As I’m not in your situation and it’s all hypothetical, this probably isn’t helpful and perhaps I should just shut up!
However, without wanting to be impertinent asking your age, are you REALLY too old or is this an excuse because your heart isn’t really in it? I hope this doesn’t sound harsh, it’s not supposed to, but sometimes we invent excuses not to do things because we can’t face just saying no.
The choice you make will be the right one, so trust your instincts. Good luck.

We've been in your position and we decided to go for it. We definitely did the right thing.

The most compelling reason for doing it for us was to allow our children to have a strong sibling bond and they definitely have that. I think it means a lot to each of them that they have someone else "on their side" and I think (hope) they'll carry that bond throughout their lives.

I should however also say that we did early permanency and being fast tracked for approval by a different LA while having a tiny baby was definitely challenging.

We've been in your situation, DC1 was 4 and at school but non verbal. DH and I had thought and talked vaguely about going back to seek approval to adopt again, when we were notified of the birth and removal of a second child from BM.

DH and I considered it, and although we felt that life had become quite settled, and it was nice to be out of nappies and broken nights sleep, we went ahead, and wouldn't be without either of them. I understand your concerns about disrupting life for DC1 though. Our youngest is now 5, and recently diagnosed with FAS. Her difficulties only increase as she gets older and I know DC1 does resent her at times because of the effect on our family, but he loves her too and is fiercely protective of her. We wouldn't adopt a third time because it would be too much strain on our family, marriage, finances, mental health etc.

Would it help to work from the basis that there is no "right" answer you have to arrive at? If you don't adopt the new sibling, they will be found another family, and there is a possibility your child could have direct or indirect contact if all parties agree. You're not obliged and won't be letting them down if you don't go ahead.

In terms of going from one to two, it wasn't that bad, and we felt we had more confidence the second time round (even though we were doing "baby" stuff for the first time, because DC1 had been older when he came home). Each time I felt it took about a year for us all to adjust to the changes to our family.

Good luck with whatever you decide

I think you need to set aside the fact that this is your DDs sibling.

She is likely to have more, they will all be your DDs siblings, you can't take them all.

Focus on two things

Do you want another child?

Is this a good time - for you and your existing child?

If the answer to those questions is yes - then you have your answer

OP, as you know our circumstances are almost identical, except this time I am about nine weeks ahead of you!

We had DS at 8 months in Dec 2016 when we were both 45. he was (and still is) a dream child and everything was absolutely perfect. Couldnt have been happier.

Then earlier this year we were informed that BM was pregnant again (full sibling) and there might be a care order. We said we were interested and left it at that. Fast forward a few months and before we knew it we'd been re approved and gone to matching panel. It wasnt until this time that I suddenly realised the elation and excitement I experienced with DC 1 had been replaced with fear and a 'going through the motions' feeling with DC2. I had a total panic (which I posted on here about I think?). I worried that DC1 wouldnt cope, we as parents (now 46) wouldnt cope, money would be tight etc etc. Even when we saw DC2's picture it wasnt the same instant love that we had with DC1 which again secretly worried me.

Despite these worries, we went ahead. Intros this time around were horrendous - there was certainly no instant love between the siblings! We were absolutely exhausted and convinced we'd ruined all the hard work building an attachment with DC1.

Now over two months in, I can honestly say that we adore DC2 and although it's very tough at times, having the two of them together is magic. I love the fact that they are so close in age (15 months difference) that they will always be at a similar stage in life. We've had to learn to parent differently and 'time to ourselves' is just about non existent (doesnt help that DC2 is a terrible sleeper and still feeding several times a night). I've given up a well paid job which, is I am honest, has not been as painful as I expected (thanks to shopping in Lidl, accepting friends' hand-me-downs and accepting that love is more important than the newest toy/trendiest new outfit for the DC).

Looking back, these are the things I wish I had known:

• Finding time to be re approved with a toddler is hard; SW need to accept paper work cant be done in an instance
• Introductions need to focus on the needs of both children; in fact, there should have been more emphasis on DC1 who struggled far more than the new baby
• If intros are away from home, insist on self catering with separate bedrooms - not a hotel
• Get the FC to start adapting the new baby to the routine you will have when you have the two of them in advance
• Dont be worried if you dont feel the gush of instant love you had with DC1 when you first meet. It's simply because you've now got DC1 to worry about and you do feel a bit guilty (DC1 sobbed uncontrollably when I first held DC2; I was devastated and sobbed uncontrollably that night)
• Get a side by side buggy rather than one behind the other and make sure it fits in your boot (I learnt the hard way!)
• Time spent quietly as a family at home simply 'being' is far more valuable than 'doing things' in terms of the sibling relationship
• Everything takes twice as long to do as you would anticipate
• If you're often having to bath the two on your own, a decent bath chair helps
• Dont be afraid to ask on local social media if you need help in the early days especially: we forgot to get a baby monitor and had loads of neighbours desperate to lend/give us theirs
• For every 'shit, what have we done?' moment, there will be loads and loads of 'this is fab' moments
• Dont dwell on the fact you'll be in yours 60s before they leave school!

Rainatnight PS Forgot to mention that MB is now pregnant again. This time, we instantly knew we didnt want another and havent even had to discuss it. The fact that you are even considering having DC2 and are asking on here suggests to me that you probably do want another, but are being realistic/sensibly cautious about the implications?

Is baby up for adoption ? Things can change did for one of our's recently, baby now with birth mum is working well see's sibling's regular we are here for support if needed . So mum is not alone.

Wish you all the best xx

How did you square the impact of any future issues with the decision to go ahead?

We didn't- you can't plan the unknown. I'm quite risk averse and would cheerfully overplan everything. This is useful if you are buying a car but it's of limited use as a way of life. Mulling the potential outcomes is important for analysing your feelings and reaching a decision, but we fool ourselves if we think we can predict the possible outcomes of having kids in any meaningful way.

I'm very lucky that my two are at the lower end of need, compared to some adopters. DD2 has some physical issues, but that stuff is easier to cope with than you might imagine (again, we're lucky). Both children have benefited enormously from having the other.

If the realistic scenarios of difficulty are beyond your capacity, then don't have another kid. If you think you think you can manage, and you want another (I suspect that's a given) then go for it.

Agree that there is no right or wrong answer here. Just what you think is the best decision for you and your family at the moment.

I do wince a little bit at the suggestion FCs should get baby into the routine adopters will have in advance. It's the adopters (even second time adopters) who need to adapt around the baby about to be placed as it's this baby who's life is about to change completely, they will lose all that is familiar to them.

Totally agree with Donquixotedelamancha

Even with birth children, something could occur in the future so we didnt consider it. We already knew that DC2 had been born very prematurely, suffered a brain bleed and showed signs of withdrawal and I can honestly say that the potential impact of this never came into our decision making. We already felt a bond with DC2 simply because of them being a full sibling and we accepted that, for better or worse, as we would had I have been pregnant with DC2.

Although DC2 does have greater needs, coping with that hasnt been an issue at all. It's the more mundane day to day things - extra washing, tidying, feeding two at the same time etc that have been more of a challenge (initially at least).

Twogirlsandme It depends on the specific case.
Prior to adopting DC2, I would have entirely agreed that the baby's needs and routines should come first. However, in hindsight, we and all the professionals involved realise that more time should have been devoted to considering DC1's needs and routines. Both their worlds were massively turned upside down, but DC1 was significantly more affected by this than the baby and nearly ten weeks in, that's still the case.

In our case, the routines established in FC (two adults there constantly and no other DC) were simply impossible to maintain in our home (with a jealous toddler and often only one adult) and had baby been used to some of the new routines in advance eg feeding from a high chair it would have been less of a change once placed.

The SWs did say that our case was unusual in that the age gap is very small and DC1 is still non verbal (and not securely attached), so preparing him for all the changes was harder.

Sorry Rufus27 I still disagree on that. I'm sure DS1 had his world turned upside down but he didn't lose his primary carer (on this occasion) as the little one did.
Hadn't realised you meant little things like getting used to highchair though. I do agree things small practical things like that could be worked on.

Twogirlsandme Hard for me to explain without being specific ((potentially outing) but I did mean practicalities more than anything else. In general I do still agree with you. Sorry I wasn’t clearer!

Also found that intros six hours from home living in hotel with few toys and little familiarity massively impacted on DC1 when DC2 still had familiarity, carers etc present and was therefore relaxed. We couldn’t start to attach to DC2 as DC1 was so confused and upset until we got back to his surroundings again. Would have been better to have had the bulk of intros with F.C. present but in our home - even the v protective F.C. agreed with this once we travelled back to our town.

Please don't feel you have to provide any more info.
Yes agree some of intros when they are long distance should be done near adopters home with fc present wherever possible. Long distance intros are tough for everyone.
Hope your two little ones are doing well.