Toiletting. Again.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

So our two DC arrived with us both with toiletting issues, DS4 had problems with wetting (basically being so busy playing that he forgot to go to the toilet) and DD6 both wetting and soiling. The soiling pretty much resolved itself with treatment for constipation and as she became more settled she stopped wetting too. DS quickly stopped wetting and both were doing really well.

The last week of school before Christmas DS started wetting again - up to 3 times a day. I put it down to the disruption around Christmas and just changed him each time without fuss.

They both now have been wetting since Christmas Day, it feels like we're back at the start again except now I've done 9 changes of clothes in one day between them. I'm making sure they drink regularly, remind them both to go to the toilet, supervising them to make sure they go and still they pee!

Talking to DS today he said he was too busy playing to go for a pee, "it takes too long mummy". DD had an accident at school but she said she was in the playground and didn't want to stop playing. Tbh that feels a bit more of a decision not to interrupt play rather than not being in control.

I'm trying very hard to do the matter of fact change clothes and move on but I feel myself getting more and more angry with them, particularly my DD because she's older and is able to rationalise why she didn't go.

Honestly, does toilet training never end!

[bostonkremekrazy]

sounds more like control than anything else, clearly christmas has spiraled for them again
....but i have no experience (thankfully) - someone else will,
sorry it sounds crappy, 9 changes :(

[TripleB32]

We had similar issues with our DS(7) - although at nighttime mainly. His was a conscious decision to wet rather than take himself to the toilet (it would happen within 2 minutes of him being in bed so he wasn't asleep).
We just put him into pull ups and said that we would do our bit and remind him to go to the toilet at key points throughout the day, but the rest was down to him. Strangely enough, we didn't have a single wet pull up from the moment he started wearing them! We continued with them for a month anyway, and then said to him that he must have taught himself to hold on until the right time (awesome work little one etc etc) and that we'll now try without them.
We didn't shame him in wearing them (although his younger brothers did) but we just said that for the sake of everyone's sleep and happiness it would be better that way.
9 times a day is exhausting for everyone - maybe try pull ups to take the pressure off you all?

[Jellycatspyjamas]

I'm going to put her back into pull ups, though she will experience that as shameful no matter how we present it to her. She's also been know to take off her pull ups once we put her to bed - not annoying at all . It's so difficult to get that balance if it's not ok to decide not to use the toilet, with not wanting to shame them, while feeling exhausted and bloody angry with all the laundry.

[bostonkremekrazy]

how are you doing jelly?

we are about to potty train dc4.....I am dreading it.....and it made me think of you this morning.....

[fatberg]

Jelly, mine was younger but the first few months after arriving 4yo would wet every time she didn’t get to do exactly what she wanted. You could literally see her squeeze a wee out in protest. This was in addition to actually wetting herself and then having a rubbish capacity even when she was doing it right. I got through it by having a mountain of pants/leggings/socks in the living room so she was only ever directed to change with minimal fuss and I could almost retain my normal pleasant humour. Probably not therapeutic but it saved my sanity when I was barely making it through the days.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

I'm glad I'm not the only person who's child does a protest pee. My DS openly says if I make him do X (get dressed, sit at the table for lunch) that he'll pee everywhere . I don't rise to it but it belies the idea he has no control over it.

His fosters would just change him where he stood so he thinks that going to the toilet wastes valuable playing time - because of that I'm doing the exact opposite, making sure that peeing himself takes more time and inconvenience than just using the loo. Yes it inconveniences me too but such is life I suppose.

DD is working hard at staying dry because we can't let her go to her dancing class if she's wetting herself (had an accident at the last class and danced for an hour in wet pants, the class teacher just doesn't have the capacity to get her changed while teaching). She loves dancing and we've presented as a natural consequence, i.e. We want you to go to class but you need to be able to stay dry...

It'll work itself out, they're both processing lots of stuff ATM so are quite unsettled but it'll be fine.

[Mintylizzy9]

Hi jelly. We’re still having loo issues following Christmas. Thankfully the wetting has really reduced to once a day if that (was three/four times a day around xmas). Still having a protest poop within minutes of getting into bed most nights tho! Some nights he strips off including his nappy. D s pees A LOT and has bulging nappy by 5 am so you can imagine the joy of no nappy 😧

I’m hoping he will be back to normal in the next couple of weeks when our routine is in full swing again. I’m still catching up on laundry!

[Jellycatspyjamas]

Oh my god, the laundry is never bloody ending is it! I feel like I'm constantly washing, folding, rinsing, soaking pee and pop stained clothes. It's got so into my head that I feel the whole house smells of pee - my DH assures me it smells of bleach instead .

My 6 year old has been completely dry at night in pull ups for 3 nights now but I know if we take them off she'll wet the bed - what's that all about.

[Mintylizzy9]

Control I think.

DS would happily sit in his filled night nappy all morning given the chance. It’s what he remembers as a baby though. His CP SW told me he would do surprise Home visits around 10.30 am when DS was with birth Mum and DS nappy would be so full it was hanging off him as he hadn’t been changed since the night before. It’s a regression I suppose when they’re feeling wobbly, the feel and the smell. For DS the lack of routine does mean regression, that and we’re in therapy so it’s been a literal shit storm at minty towers the last few weeks 😳

I buy the mashoooove laundry detergents from Costco. Fairy non bio 200 wash bottle is around a tenner...my bank account thanks me 😁 they also sell the big detol laundry liquid which gets chucked into the pee and poop washes —pretty much every effing load—

[Jellycatspyjamas]

I feel your pain, I'd never have thought children's toilet habits could cause so much stress! I too buy cosco sized washing stuff but I haven't seen the dettol- guess what's going on my shopping list.
My two have been dry so far today but I'm not breathing a sigh of relief yet.

I think for both of them it's about control so I'm trying to give some limited choices within a tight routine in the hope that it'll settle down.

[brightsunshineatlast]

It sounds like your 6 year old is on the cusp of being able to handle it at night, and if so have you thought about using one of those electric sheets, where the alarm goes off at the faintest drop, instead of a pull up?

[brightsunshineatlast]

I think it is to do with communicating needs, rather than control, whether it is because dc have been thrown off kilter by Christmas or other things. I might be wrong, but it might be more effective to go for more TLC along with routine rather than limiting choices and talking about consequences. Also the video in the resources linked by Iggyflop about the window of tolerance is really good too. I suspect lots of people get thrown out of their window of tolerance at Christmas.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

My DC get lots of tlc, I'm not harsh or shaming with them. When they're stressed or excited they don't cope well with too much choice - they need to know that mum and dad have got all the bases covered and that things are planned and predictable. So when I say limiting choices we'll give them the option of toast or yoghurt for breakfast instead of asking them what they'd like, I'll lay out their clothes rather than letting them choose what to wear - those decisions can feel overwhelming for them when they're coping with anything "extra", which just adds to the toiletting difficulties.

The consequence of not going to dancing is a very real one, the teacher can't have her in class if she's wetting or soiling herself - my DD needs to know it's not because she's badly behaved, not a good enough dancer etc. She knows we're working on helping her stay dry during the day so that she can go to dancing and not worry about peeing herself (she gets very anxious about wetting herself). The reality is our day to day activities are very much impacted when the DC are struggling because we know that regardless of availability of toilets both children will need to be changed several times in the course of the day.

I understand the concept of window of tolerance, and generally will pull in the things I can control for them so they have more capacity to cope with the things that no one can control.

That being said, they both know the impact their toiletting issues have and I do think there's an element of control - not in a thought through malicious way but simply them trying to control their environment, including their parents.

[brightsunshineatlast]

I wasn't criticising you in the least jellycat, I hope you didn't think that I was. I absolutely empathise with you, it really is pure drudgery having to change sheets and wash multiple outfits, it is really hard work.

What did you think about the alarm idea? It might give your dc more control in a positive way?

In relation to the dance class, someone I know has managed this by arranging private lessons for the child until the child was ready (it wasn't dance but another activity). The child was affected by trauma and just couldn't cope with the class. The private thing was temporary, so that child didn't fall behind and lose confidence. No idea if this is a helpful or practical suggestion or not though.

In relation to limiting choices I am not sure if we are disagreeing or not. In my experience trying to limit choices for slightly older children (6 upwards) is resisted and counterproductive as it is going against their natural impulses, and going against natural impulses is going to produce mild shame, but if you are saying that your dc are entirely happy with it and respond well then that is a different matter.

Anyway, you have my sympathy, it is exhausting and difficult to deal with.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

I dont think I felt criticised, more that I felt I hadn't explained my approach properly - I guess my starting point is trying to be gentle in my parenting so I tend to talk about the bits that feel more structured than I'd normally like.

In terms of choice my 6 year old is developmentally delayed by about 18 months - in many ways it's like having 4 year old twins, she can't cope just yet with some things that would be developmentally "normal" for her age. As she settles her development is expected to catch up and we see signs of that happening just now but it's very one step forward one step back.