Nightmare with daughter in school follow on

[HammerToFall]

You may remember my other thread where dd was not coping at school at all trashing the classroom and getting excluded. We did a staggered return after half term but things have been getting bad again to the point where yesterday at home time I had to go in the classroom and get her as she had ripped up loads of the other kids work. She decided she did not want to leave school and to cut a long story short assaulted a load of teachers on the way out then me and another teacher had to hold her on the road side as she was refusing to get in the car and I couldn't physically get her in. We had to hold her to keep her safe as she was trying to run in the road where there were cars. My husband turned up eventually and got her in the car.

I don't know what to do. She can't be in school she is hurting herself and others but she can't just not go to school, and to be honest I need the respite as these rages are almost 24/7 at home. She is in dyadic therapy once a week but other than that nothing. CAMHS won't see her as it's not in their remit and I'm on the waiting for after adoption support, I ring them daily, school has rang them and my local MP has been in touch and still they haven't been to see us.

I don't know how much longer I can carry on like this. At the minute none of us are safe from being hit,bit, being spat at and things thrown at us including 10 year old ds.

I remember your thread. I'm so sorry to hear that things have got worse.

What on earth is going on with the After Adoption Support Team? Have they given any reason why they haven't been out, or are they just ignoring you?

I think phonecalls are too easy to ignore, put everything in writing for a start. Have you approached the SW Service Manager who sits above the team? You could email them detailing the situation and request a meeting?

What has your MP done to take this forward? I work in this area and don't generally stop until we get a result. They shouldn't just send a one-off letter and job done, they should be chasing an outcome. You could perhaps try them again for an 'update' which should push them into action.

Apologies if you've already tried all this.

It must be very hard to find the energy to keep pushing while meantime you are trying to support your DD day and night. Chin up. You are doing a great job in a very tough situation.

Oh and, what are the Education Dept saying? How do they propose meeting her needs?

I haven't spoken to the education department. Can I just ring them direct. School have referred us to social services yesterday as they said we weren't keeping her safe in the car. Dh just put her in the car and drive round the corner away from school to descalate the situation and she was climbing all over the car. To be honest I am glad because none of us can carry on like this.

Have you told your post adoption support team that you're at the point of the placement disrupting? That might focus their minds.

So sorry you're going through this. I hope you get the help you need soon.

I don't have any advice but just wanted to offer support.

Why do CAMHS say she's not their remit? That's very odd.

Yes you can phone the Education Dept direct. I would probably email the Director of Education Ccing the Head Teacher in a, this is the situation, how are we going to work together to meet DD's needs? It doesn't sound like the school are that geared up to help, but the LA should be able to cast their net wider and come up with some possible ways forward.

Ideally perhaps a Case Conference would be useful to look at supporting you and your DD holistically, but that may be further down the road if you are struggling to get them to engage at all.

Both Ed and SW need to start taking some responsibility and get themselves in gear. I am so angry that you've just been left.

So very sorry.

How is this not CAMHS job!

Tell post adoption your placement is breaking down (it sounds like it is) and they will be looking at housing your dd in a special fostering situation on even specialist unit if they do not act now. This could be enormously expensive and detrimental to your Dd.

What has your own MP done so far?

I know it is laborious and I can offer no garantes but make a spreadsheet of all the people who have the power to help, service providers etc, therapy, theraplay if it would help etc.

Then a list of a the people who could help you and your family to access that help, MP, GP, head etc.

Then call them all, email and write and ask what they can do/offer and by when. Cc in your emails to their managers. Keep a record of all replies and if not reply within 48 hours approach again.

I am sorry if you have already done this.

Can you enlist a trusted friend or relative to help you do this?

Can you access funds from post adoption support, whatrvser i it called, post adoption support fund? Can you get therapy privately?

Have you approached Adoption UK?

This sounds so tough. Your little girl needs your support but is behaving so badly. It must be so draining. For you, her, all of you!

Do you work? Can you take emergency leave? Can your husband? Can you speak to someone high up in adoption services, MP Timpson, what's his first name?

You need to strike the note of desperation but also be approachable, someone they can work with. I expect by now you just want to screen and shout. But I do think that can make others shut down.

I am sorry I cannot help. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Not within their remit - why not!? this is not just a school issue (if it is they do try to stay out of it), it is an issue at home too. Go to your GP and ask them to refer you for a tier 3 referral if at all possible or get your school to get the EP to refer which ever is quicker in your area.

I'm not sure this will help but when DS had a similar (though not as difficult by the sounds of it - pushing desks and chairs over but no ripping up of work or hurting anyone deliberately), the school and I worked together and put in place the following:

1 -They got emergency funding from local council for a 1:1 TA
2 - DS was secluded within school in a separate room and taught with the TA present
3 - He did a "soft entry" into school ir through another etrance 5 minutes or so after everyone else had gone in.
4 - I took him to school and picked him up every day (he was year 5 and so had started walking to school alone)
5 - his lunch hour was managed 20 mins food, 20 minutes quiet time inside with a classmate of his choice (pretty much doing anything they wanted, computers, games etc), 20 mins in playground
6 - daily emails from TA to me copying class teacher and SEN manager giving break down of how the day went.

He absolutely hated it (and so did I and we had a week or two of horrendous backlash with teachers/TA's trailing around the school when he'd escape!

He was told very clearly when his behaviour had calmed down then he would start being reintroduced back into the wild classroom.

After about 4/5 weeks this was done gradually, a timetable was done for him at the beginning of the week showing which lessons would be done in class and which with the TA trying not to change backwards and forwards. Any backsliding of behaviour was cracked down on immediately.

By the end of about 10 weeks he was back in class (with TA in attendance and frankly really required) for all lessons except the ones he really struggled with which were the ones with outside teachers who didn't really get how to handle him at all - PE, French, music.

This was a little under a year ago - I think his total breakdown in behaviour (which had been quite rocky for a year or two before but then fell off a cliff - I think because of friendship issues he was having) started around January.

Now he is being assessed for a statement (whatever they're called these days!) so that hopefully he goes to secondary next year with a budget. He has transformed his behaviour this year in part because of the separation from the class, in part because of a concerted attempt by me to find things he loved that didn't rely on friends from school (thank you sailing!) and partly because he's looking ahead to secondary school and starting afresh.

Now at the beginning of year 6 he still has a 1:1 TA who is probably not necessary 80% of the time and the other 20% is really about helping DS deal with his emotions in the very early stages of the frustration starting so avoiding the problem. The school started taking seriously the low level "teasing" he was getting and not just assuming it was his fault. School also took on board my advice about how much positive handling he needs and even though it's counter intuitive when a child is kicking off and many many teacher do the stern telling off stuff. In fact that's the time they most need TLC. It's hard for staff and us to grasp this and dealing with it at home I know howhard it is to be positive and loving in these situations. But in the end it (often) does work but it isn;t a quick fix. Keep everyone safe, identify the triggers, remove from the triggers, let the manic brain calm down as much as possible and start building from there.

If things are really that bad, your local authority may have a class for children with severe behavioural problems which she can go to one or two (or more) days a week which can be helpful. DS was offered this but I thought the plan we had on the table should be given time to work.

He's having a great year in year 6, has come on leaps and bounds.

Sorry - that's probably a bit long but there can be light at the end of the tunnel.

Try to look after yourself - I know how draining it is.

Oh blimey that really is long!

Kew glad he is doing better. Big hugs to you and him.

Thanks - I'm not sure my point was very clear though! DS was getting lots of time out (and the school was talking about temporary exclusion) - it was me who persuaded them that getting constant time out was causing some of the problem so they agreed to remove him to another room waited for things to settle down then very slowly and keeping him informed at each stage with very clear boundaries how he would be transitioning back to the classroom in stages.

No more in and out - his brain can;t cope with it.

It helped enormously that he really did desparately want to go back into the classroom. Does your DD want to? Might you have to consider a special unti for a while - if they have one locally and its any good.

Suggest you contact the LA's School's Statutory Disability assessment team, for them too put in a pathway plan for your child's via their outreach disability team. This will bring on side all support network, after assessment child will be seen by a child psychologist too ascertain if your child needs too be placed on a Educational health care plan (replaces the old statmenting process a child no longer needs a diagnosis too access help and support) which is controlled by the Local community paediatrician and disability support staff.
School would receive extra funding £6000 ain addition too pupil premium plus.

You may want too get in touch with organisation who are experienced and
can help with respite care. One for adopted children is www.open nest.co.uk . can google.

Sorry is www.The Open Nest.co.uk

Have the school said that she cannot go back? How are they recording her absence in the register? Have they excluded her?

Have you discussed the pupil premium spend with them?

Has she had an assessment by the Educational Psychologist? Has this been suggested by the school?

Last question, sorry- I didn't see your previous thread- what year is she in?

Oh Hammer I'm sorry this is so bad. Are her exclusions official now or are they just asking you to take her home? Ds was excluded for the third time last week and I insisted that this time it was an official fixed term exclusion recorded officially as we really need a paper trail to access more support or find a school that is more suited to his needs. So if she is not officially excluded, that is what I would be asking for. You should then have on your exclusion letter the name and number of the local person who is responsible for the education of excluded children in your local area. I would give them a call to talk about what your options are locally. Also get cracking on that EHCP. With her learning needs and her emotional needs you shouldn't have a problem getting one and this will give her access to all sorts of support through SEN (as post adoption is so rubbish).
Then there is the issue of life at home. Have you got any of the William wobbly books? Are you managing to deal with her therapeutically at all? How is she after a meltdown? Have you any inkling from her or her therapy why she is struggling after such a long period of calm? Looking back at the calm, were there any clues that you can identify that could point to why she is struggling so much at the moment? Hope you get some respite and support soon.

Hammer - I often think if you. Maybe because I am experiencing really challenging behaviour from my DS1.

How are you? How is your DD?

I'm sorry to hear that, Hels20.

Me too

Do you want to talk about it hels?

It's still a bit raw - but DS1 head butted another pupil at school. Am so upset. And v tired as DS2 refuses to sleep (wakes up at least 4 times a night and has only slept for more than 4 hours in a stretch twice since he arrived - he won't co-sleep and I can't sleep in his room as DS1 is beyond jealous). So life is tough - and I was wondering how poor Hammer is getting on as I can see DS1 doing something similar. And it is so painful to watch as their behaviour to the outside world seems so illogical and I feel so judged!

I am attending an adoption parenting group (and paying a small fortune for it but it is amazing) weekly and we are also doing play therapy - so hopefully something will work. Just feel so down.

Just wanted to say, as a fellow adopter having a rough evening, tomorrow is a new day.

I've written that on the wall in our kitchen.

Hope it gets better

If it helps Hels - we were in a horrendous place a year ago but things are looking much brighter now. I does really help if you can find your happy place inside! I believe that with persistence lots of behaviour can be tackled which seems untackle-able.

I know you've probably got your hands more than full but I'm not far away if you want to meet for a chat and a coffee.