Pupil Premium

[Mrsmagoo22]

Hope you can help. Dd would like to take violin lessons this year. Came home with letter today and wow, didnt expect it to be so expensive lol.
We are having to watch the pennies just now due to uncertainty with dhs company.
We will pay if got to but wondering if would be cheeky to ask for it to be paid from pp?
School have claimed this for dd since reception and now yr 4.
While i appreciate it no doubt benefits the school as a whole and so in turn benefits dd, she does well at school and have never had to ask for extra help etc.
I hear of adopters getting after school clubs paid for etc hence my question.
Any views appreciated!

I have heard of a child having piano lessons paid for out of pupil premium before.
At the end of the day you can have say so over what the school uses it for, the money is for your child as apposed to being for the school as such. Obviously if lots of children need the same interventions etc the school can make better use of the money if it is pooled, but if she wants violin lessons, which I'm sure will benefit her in many ways, the money is there!

Teacher here: not at all cheeky.

The school has to account for how PP money is spent- it isn't claimed, its allocated to your daughter and has to be spent on stuff that benefits her; albeit usually in cohort as described above.

If the school demur (which can only be because they feel they have already spent that amount in her), I'd ask for an accounting of how the PP money is spent. I'd be stunned if a bit of gentle polite pushing doesn't work (though I think it's likely even that wont be needed).

I've had taxi's (to education provision) and holiday's paid through pupil premium. Also laptops purchased through PP.

Thanks for your replies and good to hear a teachers point of view.
Wow-laptops, holidays and taxis!
I obviously need to ask the question. I have looked at the school pp report online and they are paying for teaching support and nurture sessions out of pp for year 4.
But dd doesn't make use of either of these or would their reasoning be that by helping the ones that do it is benefitting dd's education?
Or is that me overthinking it?
Keep reading that we should be consulted on what this fund is spent on but apart from the initial claim 4 yrs ago it hasnt been mentioned.
Anyway ive signed the form so one happy little girl went to sleep tonight. She so badly wants to do this so will pay if needs be.
I will arrange to see HT and ask the question...

Teacher here and yes, some of our PP kids have music lessons.

One of my adopter friends child has no issues to date so the school pay for school uniform for the child and also all trips

My dd goes on all the outings at nursey and her group has a extra member of staff she doesn't need it however she dose get more atteion because the ratio is slightly higher

"But dd doesn't make use of either of these or would their reasoning be that by helping the ones that do it is benefitting dd's education?"

Nope. Has to benefit your daughter. Now the school could dig in, but that's unlikely.

Just to say I was in v similar position to you and asked the same question of school and they said yes no prob to using PP funding to pay for musical instrument lessons.

Hope you get an equally positive response.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP but does anyone know at what age this can be claimed? Is there anything for early years whilst at nursery (DS is under 3). I have seen some things referring to school nursery i.e pre school but not nursery.

as far as I'm aware it is for school aged children, I am not 100% however.

We've had a bit of a tough time with the spending of PP money for our DS (sorry to hijack too!). But like has been mentioned there is a nurture group which he has attended that is ran for all children, in year one (now 3) he also got 1 extra reading session and NESSY (I think it's called) Maths. Again this is available to all children who need it.

I raised this with the school as we feel we want extra 121 help in building his confidence / joining in with certain sessions as well as helping him stay on task, writing / maths help etc as he can often distract himself but it is more down to his lack of confidence and ability to believe he can do it / as oposed to what they say 'he doesn't put enough effort in / can't stay on task on his own'.

Each time I have been told that is not how it is spent, and he can't have the 121 help, and they also can't help facilitate opportunities where he is encouraged to join in (sports etc) where he feels safe with an adult, other than the general play time on the yard (which he would never just up and join in with a group situation).

There is a bit more to it than that, but am I in the wrong to keep trying to pursue this, are the school right that the money is 'pooled' for their resources in general?

minty as far as I know the early years pupil premium is for any setting delivering to eligible 3 and 4 yr olds so this should mean a private nursery could claim it as well as a nursery school, but there is no pupil premium for children under 3.

Buster you are absolutely right to keep on at school for support which your child actually needs. This is what PP is for. If the school's existing interventions aren't benefitting your child then the onus is on them to provide an intervention or support that does make a difference to him. This is what PP is for, and the school are not allowed (though some try and get away with it) to just add the money to the general pot.

Agree with the others.
Other children can 'piggyback' off support provided for PPP kids but your child should be directly benefiting.

In your circumstances I would definitely ask whether some of her funding can be used for the music lessons.

So encouraging to hear positive stories of how the funding is benefitting individual children and that no one has said my request for the music sessions would be a definite no.
The more i research the more i am certain this is how it should be.
Minty-Funding is available for children over 3 from what i have read.
Buster-pls dont give up. I have never mentioned it before as dd didnt need extra help. As yet anyway, early days so who knows but if she did i would fight for it.
And no need for either of you to say sorry!

I have been in school today and am seeing HT later this week so will let you all know. Thankyou so much for all your replies-really helped!

My daughter got it from 2 years old

Minty, I'm an early years teacher.
Under 3 (from the term after children are 2), some children are eligible for 2 year old funding. This depends on the financial circumstances of the family, but is also available for forces children, looked after children and adopted children.

From the term they are 3, children may be eligible for the Early Years Pupil Premium. If a child attends for 15 hours a week, the EYPP is approximately £300 per year, pm considerably less than the pupil premium in Reception to year 6.

The PP for adopted children is £1,900 per year and should be used to raise the attainment of the children who attract it- it is distinct from the generic Ever6 PP, and should not be absorbed into the school budget.

As others have said, it can benefit other children, but the focus should be on the adopted child. It can also be pooled to benefit more than one LAC/former LAC, for example to pay for a specialist teacher's time or a trip.

A good rule of thumb is that it should be spent on things which are not part of the school's universal offer, so should not be used for generic booster classes etc.

The Sutton Trust toolkit is a good resource to frame discussions with the school about how to spend the PP- and evidence shows that instrumental lessons raise attainment (correlation/causation argument notwithstanding )

Sutton Trust/EEF toolkit

Mrs Magoo - PP at my school is used for all sorts of things, according to the needs of the children:

Additional TA support
Music lessons
Support with trip costs
Free school uniform
Taxis if there is a problem with attendance or lateness
After school care or clubs
And many others...

I think it would be quite reasonable to go and talk to the PP leader in your school and talk about this. It would certainly be looked upon favourably in my school.

Thanks, I'm going to speak to nursery this week and see if we can claim it.

at our school PP kids get some stuff half price, including music lessons. may be worth asking if yours does.

Tethersend-thanks for the link
Littlefish- thanks for the list. It kind of proves my point.
I am sure there are children at dd's school that receive some of these. But dd isnt one them.
I honestly thought the funding was for extra support in class and am just so grateful shes doing well.
Wasnt until i spoke to an adopter friend end of last term about cost of school trips and she couldnt believe i paid for them.
I promised dd that if she stuck at last yrs instrument she could do violin this yr.
I know she has to learn that sometimes you cant afford everything but she did so well last yr that dont want to let her down.
And it did wonders for her confidence.
Anyway we'll see how it goes 2mrw but am armed with more info now thanks to you wonderful people!

Just a quick update-meeting went very well and got a yes with no hesitation!
Also told if needed help with anything else or had more ideas on how it could be spent to benefit dd to go and see her again so all good. Was told it could fund trips or other expenses.
My only thought now is why wasnt i told this in reception?!, suppose its the old story of if you dont ask you dont get eh?
And once again thank you to all of you for your posts

Glad to hear you got such a positive response. Hope your LO enjoys learning the violin

Does anyone know whether pupil premium is different for adopted children?
I think we qualify for the school to claim pupil premium due to low income family and have filled in the form(they ask all parents to fill it in). I've not heard anything about it and assumed they just pooled the money into improving areas across the school for all kids not just those that get it.
Is it the case that actually I could say I'd like it to be spent on eg music lesson etc or is that only in the case of adopted children/ children in care?

Hi Jazz the following info is from the DfE site and explains the two different types of Pupil Premium.

"In the 2016 to 2017 financial year, schools will receive the following funding for each child registered as eligible for free school meals at any point in the last 6 years:
£1,320 for pupils in reception year to year 6
£935 for pupils in year 7 to year 11
Schools will also receive £1,900 for each pupil identified in the spring school census as having left local-authority care because of 1 of the following:
adoption
a special guardianship order
a child arrangements order
a residence order
If a pupil has been registered as eligible for free school meals and has also left local-authority care for any of the reasons above, they will attract the £1,900 rate."

Schools do not have to spend the money on an individual pupil per se, but they must show that their spending of the money raises the attainment of disadvantaged pupils. A school can choose to 'pool' its PP resources to buy or offer interventions that would benefit all pupils including PP ones and this can often be the case in larger schools and/or schools with large numbers of PP pupils. However, any intervention or support paid for by PP must raise the attainment of PP pupils, so if you feel that what extra support your child is being offered is not having any benefit for them then you are perfectly within your rights to ask the school what else they can do to support your child.

In any case, I would suggest talking to the Head and SENCO about what support your child needs (if any) and how the school can use PP funding to directly support your child.

Lots of schools offer half price or free educational trips, school clubs or music tuition for PP pupils. As far as I am aware this is an allowed use of PP as long as the school can prove it is having a positive impact on raising the attainment of PP pupils. The arguments to support this might be along the lines of :

• Access to educational trips provides pupils with additional opportunities outside of the classroom to support their learning
•Music tuition develops confidence and self esteem as well as enhancing concentration, reading and comprehension skills. This then has a positive impact on performance in class.
•Engagement with after school clubs (such as sport or computing) allows pupils to develop their skills and confidence in this area and pupils can transfer these skills to their learning in the classroom.

That's by no means the correct or only interpretation just my opinion based on my own personal and professional experience of PP.

In a nutshell, and to answer your question I would go to your school and ask what they can do in terms of funding music lessons via PP. I've learnt when it comes to PP it doesn't hurt to ask!