Adoption initial placement

[Wilson735339]

My 5 year old is on her 4th day with us and I am struggling with panic attacks and anxiety sometime I have to leave the room she is in because I get so scared she needs me so much! She is everything I expected but I've not reacted the way I thought I would. I'm really struggling to bond. Someone tell me these feelings will go away?

So after a 3 hour break in Sainsbury and a large coffee and cake I am feeling more resilient and a little less anxious. DH took her to a play place to wear her out! Thanks again guys, is so good to known I'm not alone in my thoughts x

My arse became the size of a sofa in the first 6 months. (To be fair, it wasn't far off to start...)

Glad you're feeling a bit better. Keep speaking to us if it helps.

tldr ha! One morning during the early months, my LO pulled up my shirt, went quiet, and said in awed tones "BIIIIIG tummy..." Um, yes. I ate my way through my blind fear of the early days months and am not taking the steps I really should be to undo that. Ho hum.

And YY to the others saying don't be too ambitious about what you do - every single thing is going to be new and strange for your DD anyway, you don't need to ramp up the pressure on either of you any more. Find two or three small quiet places that both of you can cope with and don't feel bad at all about keeping things steady and small at home apart from that.

Glad you've had a better day. I've only had birth dc and I can say much of what I read above about feeling like a babysitter, feeling like you've made a hideous mistake is very common with newborn babies to their birth Mums. Parenting is a huge shock and those feelings aren't openly discussed.

I really think the harder the battle to become a Mum the more of a shock/let down/terrifying ordeal it really is. Not to mention you have all these officials involved that you have to answer to, like that isn't pressure!!!!

Well done for surviving this far

Still suffering with panic attaches and anxiety. I wake up and a huge wave of panic passes over me giving me diahorrea and I wretch like i want to be sick. I just can't see how it will pass and I'll feel normal again. Booked a docs spot on Friday but can't see any answers ??

You've done the right thing making appointment with doc. Well done.

I don't know anything about panic attacks but I know post-adoption depression is as real as post-natal depression. And it doesn't mean you shouldn't/can't be mum.

Hopefully someone more use than me will be along soon.

I know it feels indescribably awful, but I promise the terrifying panic happened to all the adopters I know. Good to have a GP appointment, although I understand that tomorrow probably feels a long way off right now. So, you're on day 10, is that right? And you have made it this far. I doubt you believe me, but you should be proud of yourself for making it through your first ten days. There will come a time when you're not living minute to minute, half-hour to half-hour, and no longer feel worried all the time about what you're doing - and I wish I could tell you when that will be for you, but I can tell you that it will be gradual and one day you will look back and see it.

On top of the fact that what you're doing is massively tough, please also remember that it is very normal for people to experience post-adoption depression. It's the double-whammy of trying to climb a mountain, and battling with an illness at the same time. Your GP absolutely should be able to help you if it looks like that's happening to you. Is your SW being supportive? You can ask them to visit more if it helps (or less, if you find it's more pressure!). It's so hard to ask for help when things feel overwhelming, but if you possibly can, do ask key close people to come and see you for short visits (keeping it low-key and making sure they come to support you, not really interact with LO). Or perhaps people could pop round, even just for 15 minutes, after LO's bedtime? I found it just kept me connected to my "old" life and reassured me that it wasn't all lost.

Take great care of yourself, I'm sorry things are so, so rough

Please please do not beat yourself up you are doing brilliantly. It so difficult to tell SW's your true feelings. Our 6th adopted DC was 3.5years when placed he had SN and many problems. I really struggled to love him like the others. I just faked it every day but when he was just 5 he was really ill and suddenly the love "kicked" me in the stomach and I became his devoted slave, sadly he died when he was 13. Love will come.
Can't believe your Mum can't visit she is your LO's grandmother.
Hope your GP visit was ok take care of yourself and keep in touch x

I agree with TLDR if you get to the end of the day, well done you. Have a drink if it helps. DH was convinced we would give up drinking when DS was placed, but nope!
The other thing I would say that I experienced with both of mind is that likes and interests come from a state of mind, so in this anxious state you will struggle to get a sense of who she is. It comes with time, and there isn't a way of sitting there and getting to know her.
You will also find with foods that there may be a shift in what she likes to eat as her feelings about the transition shift.
To me it felt like a little alien had moved in.
You have to be so gentle with yourself and with her. I am also not sure where you will find the time to trawl through the internet for interesting engaging learning opportunities.

I can't really add much as you're getting brilliant advice. I'm a retired social worker (30 years experience in children's services) and was a manager of a Fostering & Adoption team for the last 15 years of my career.

I can't tell you how many adopters told us about the traumas they went through but only 12 months down the line when things were settled and they felt that bond with their adopted child. I used to ask why they didn't say at the time and most said the same thing "we thought you'd take him off us....."

You haven't mentioned birth children so am assuming this little girl is your first child.......and as everyone else has said, it takes time, you absolutely can't expect to bond and feel fine about everything in such a short space of time. I think one of the problems is that during the prep courses you become friendly with others in the group and you're all awaiting a placement and really looking forward to the child joining your family. You may have fantasies of what the child will be like and how you'll feel and then WHAM the reality hits, and it's nothing like you imagined. That in itself is enough to make you panic and fear you've done the wrong thing.

I felt like this when we got a puppy (!) and DH was working away and my kids were still at home and loved the puppy but I was really anxious and was phoning DH and saying I thought we'd made a real mistake and I couldn't adjust to having this puppy!!! He thought I was going a bit loopy I think.........I'm telling yu this because I think we under estimate how changes in our life can affect us, and having an adopted child has to be one of the biggest changes/challenges you have to face.

And yes to having your mom around if it helps, of course you don't want the house full of visitors, but you need support and if having your mom around helps then that's got to be good for you and your little one. Presumably she is at school if she is 5?

Anyway you will I'm sure look back on this time and be able to help others going through the same anxieties, just as others are helping you.

Thanks so much for the messages, they do help. LO is desperate to go to school, she is nearly 6 and loves school. Social workers have said it's too early, but as we had intro in school holiday she has been off now for 10 weeks. Any advice on how long before start school?

Has she got a school place already? What are SWs advising? How flexible is the school prepared to be?

The thing with school is that even with all other things being equal, it is tiring for the children and it takes up a huge amount of their day which means there's not much time or energy for you and DD to bond and form attachments. If she was in school FT, she'd be spending more time with teacher/TA than with you which is not really what you want at this stage.

School-wise she won't be missing out on anything that can't be caught up, so missing out on the opportunity to bond with you would be far worse IMO.

How are you spending your days at the minute? Have you been able to get out and do anything or are you still pretty stuck at home? In your shoes, I think I'd be looking for things you can do with her where you feel like you've had a bit of a break and she feels like she's had a lot of fun, but these need to not have a lot of other adults involved.

So maybe soft play, parks/beach, sandpit if you have a garden, painting/glueing/stickering, trip to cafe for a milkshake or whatever else counts as treat. (The first 3 of those give you the chance to have some distance between you so you get a bit of a break, painting lets you chat but with a focus that isn't you or her, trip to cafe is all about her but with a defined end point so you can make a huge effort whilst in the cafe and revert to survival mode when you leave (if you have to). (These are all things I do with my nearly 6yo.) But I'm emphatically not saying you should be doing softplay/cafes everyday - hanging out at home is fine! (and for painting I mean get out some paints and some paper, I don't mean have some big project to do...)

I'm mentioning all this because I'm wondering if part of your motivation here is because you think her being in school will relieve some of the pressure on you so I'm hoping I can offer other ways of relieving pressure. (And I'm wondering this because it was very definitely one of my motivations, so please don't be offended.)

Did you see GP yet? (Not that it's my business, so don't feel you need to report back here.)

Hang on in there

Just wanted to check in with you . I was so afraid to tell anyone how I felt, even DH wasn't told how bad it was. Although in hindsight I imagine my parents clicked that not all was okay.

It absolutely did get better and I couldn't love her more.

On another note our LO is nearing that age and it's a difficult stage. I really feel for you, and I hope the GP helped.

I don't understand why social workers are saying it's too early for your child to go to school. She is meant to be at school - it's the law! I can understand them wanting her to have time to bond with you before school, but if she's nearly 6 she needs to be in school. Has she got a school place? TLDR is right in what she says - school is very tiring for young children and having to cope with that and a new placement could be difficult, and it's true she's not going to miss out too much by being at home. Has she got a school place - is it a change of school for her? I would think she should be going after the October half term break. You don't have to agree with the social workers all the time - she's going to be your child once the AO is granted.

FWIW I've been helping another MN who has adopted a 4 year old boy and he's going to nursery full time. I thought this was too much but apparently he loves it and is generally well behaved there but the family are having a very bumpy ride with the child's behaviour sometimes, which is par for the course.

If you've never suffered from anxiety before it will be very scary - well it's scary anyway because that's what it is.........but it will pass. Paying attention to your breathing helps, place hands on tummy (breathe in slowly to count of 7 - hold for a count of 2 ) feel tummy rise and then a long breathe out - count of 10 or more and feel tummy relax.....doesn't matter about the numbers, just so long as the out breathe is longer than the in breath.

I imagine the anxiety/panic is caused by the sheer magnitude of what you have taken on and the difference it's made to your life - it's a period of great adjustment, and you will probably take 2 steps forward and 1 step back. How is your DH coping?

Well said NanaNina as usual!!

Regarding your LO's school placement I am gobsmacked. When DS was placed age 5 over Easter I kept him at home for the summer term {he is deafblind /CP) as I felt he really needed to belong to us. The flak I had was awful from SW's but I stuck it out. It seems SW's do not seem to be child orientated. I suspect your LO would love to go to school.

Don't no what else to say except hang on tight XX

I'm really surprised about the school thing too. Ours were placed mid August and started at school 3 weeks after arrival. Six year olds are supposed to be at school!

I'm not an adopter but I have worked as a teacher settling looked after and adoptive dcs into new schools. How flexible is your dd's school prepared to be about trial sessions and part-time attendance? I've known a newly adopted school-age dc attend school sessions (wearing the school uniform to feel like she belonged) initially for just an hour or two a week accompanied by her mum , building up to every morning going home for lunch and finally full days nearly a year on. That seemed to work for them. Others started full time from virtually day one and that seemed to be OK for them too. Perhaps the average was a half term to a term at home, but with several 'visits' or part time sessions beforehand.

It sounds like your social workers have a fairly fixed idea of 'best practice'. Yes, research has found that dcs benefit from a period of funneling and forming attachment with their primary care givers before forming multiple new relationships (as they will in school) but how long should that time be? Of course it depends on the individual child and their parents. There isn't a right or wrong time except what's right or wrong for your dd and you.

It's perhaps a bit the same as the question about your mum visiting. The social workers may say she shouldn't be helping out yet but if a daily cup of tea and a moan with your mum or just the chance to have a shower while your mum watches dd is the difference between you feeling half human or you feeling overwhelmed and miserable, then the social workers' Best Practice Book of Rules stops applying. In the end your dd will benefit overall from you being able to keep going and if that means help from Grandma or some sessions at school earlier than the textbook ideal, then that's your answer.

I hope you're having a good weekend.

Hi CIB glad you found this thread - might be helpful

Wilson huge hugs. I totally agree with Kew - I agree with Bond shmond it really takes time and lots of little things add to make it real, it is not love at first sight. I have a birth dd and an adopted son and it was not love at first sight with either!

I never though of giving ds back to foster carer but I did think on more than one occasion that I had made a terrible mistake or that he may have been better off without me and with foster carer. My beautiful 'mistake' is asleep upstairs and is adorable But it took quite a while. I would say months not weeks.

My advice is, as well as listening to the excellent Kew and others here...

Don't do too much -sorry combined I agree with tldr avoid educational things. Lots of kids have issues with education and you can't yet know your new child's abilities. I would focus on low key fun, with no expectations!

But.. do not do too little. We were told to avoid things and I was climbing the walls one week in!

So eventually I got 'permission' to go to a local toddler group. DS played by himself and I chatted to the other mums and drank coffee. I was there if ds needed me but I at least got to breath a bit of fresh air. If you are not yet ready to face too many questions about who you are or about dd then you could pick a group way out of town and make the drive there fun by playing some music (kid friendly) in the car. Your dd is a bit old for toddler groups and soft play is often a no-no for early placement (although we did take ds to one during intros, at foster carers suggestion!) so I would go for a park or farm play area etc. Don't plan on a whole day out, just a morning or afternoon but start with an hour.

You can go out, cafe for lunch etc, but as long as you do things for your child, so in a cafe you get a nice cooked lunch but you still cut up the food for your little one etc. Soin one sense it is like being at home but in another it is not home so a little freeing for you. Just be aware being in a cafe may be new or unsettling for your child so in your shoes I would start with milkshake or coffee (coffee for you, obviously!).

I know a lot of adoptive parents and other parents joke about can't wait for the glass of wine or the G and T (and I am NOT being judgemental) I poured myself a glass of wine the other night after a stressful day, but please be careful not to rely too much on a drink... find some ways like a nice massage (if your dh is accommodating) or a warm bath to relax at night so that you can sleep better (IMHO).

Try and go for some things that will be fun but no pressure. Can you find a local heated indoor pool with a shallow end. Take dd and if she doesn't like it you can always get out, have low expectations of what she will enjoy, don't expect the pool to be fun, because she may be afraid of water, but she just might like it and skin to skin contact is good.

PS I realise my comments about soft play and alcohol look a bit judgy, sorry, not intended. I've juts had a beer - maybe it has impaired my sense!

Soft play is fine, we went to them too. I guess I would just be ready to go home if it all gets too much. (For her, I mean.)

Re Tldr comments about things to do, totally agree. I have found things work best for us (birth dd 10 and adopted ds 5) if we do activities in the morning and then veg out in the afternoon. That way we feel we have 'achieved' something! EG Self pick fruit picking, play ground or even just going to the shops.

Totally agree with Tldr re The thing with school is that even with all other things being equal, it is tiring for the children and it takes up a huge amount of their day which means there's not much time or energy for you and DD to bond and form attachments. If she was in school FT, she'd be spending more time with teacher/TA than with you which is not really what you want at this stage.

and

School-wise she won't be missing out on anything that can't be caught up, so missing out on the opportunity to bond with you would be far worse IMO.

The trounle is that the child 'coping' with school, e.g. being well behaved at school, is seen as evidence that this is all OK. but actually the child may be managing their emotions at school (stress at learning, fear you will not collect them, worry about where they can find the loo etc) and then once at home they will let all that pent up frustration out! So the quality time you may hope for may not be quality at all. In your shoes I would make the best use of the time off that the social workers are (IMHO rightly) suggesting and just get on with it. Once she at school you can have a bit more time to yourself but I would not hurry that day up. I found having ds around all day fairly stressful and wanted him to go to the pre school but he really was not ready and in the end we tried just a bit of pre school and then started him later at school.

Desmoulinsonatable Just because 'Six year olds are supposed to be at school!' doesn't mean it is right for all kids going through the adoption process but obviously it may be right for some. Our son could have started in September as he was four but we chose not to start him straight away, it's true our situation was different as he was not yet five. The school were fairly unhelpful initially but in the end they agreed to anything we wanted and DS started part time and then went full time, it has all worked out well.

2old2beamum re 'I felt he really needed to belong to us. The flak I had was awful from SW's but I stuck it out.' I am so glad you did, I can't quite believe what some social workers or teachers think about schooling in relation to adoption. I found it very stressful 'asking' for ds to start school late even though it was perfectly legal for him to do so!

NinaNan re ' if she's nearly 6 she needs to be in school' I must say I find the attitude to the almighty school very unusual. Kids do not learn lots and lots at school, they learn some stuff, but a lot of the really, really key stuff they learn about who they are and their value is learnt at home, IMHO so a settling in period would seem normal before being subjected to the pressures of school. Of course some kids, especially older kids may want to go to school and if they have already been to school they may want that routine. But really, having been placed in a new home, having 'lost' all they have lost, I cannot see that education should be the initial priority. In Sweden kids do not start school until 6 and they learn much faster than in the UK and are usually bilingual, the delay does not do them any harm at all.

I am pretty anti-school, especially for young kids. I am sure for some it works brilliantly, but for some it does not. And without knowing this child I cannot imagine any of us would know exactly what is best in terms of education.

Anyway Wilson while you are caring for her, before adoption order you can express your views to social workers, I found it was a shared kind of working it out together, I was not the legal parent at that stage, I can't remember exactly, I think the state was responsible for my ds but social workers respected my views.

Really hope doctors appointment went well.

Hi Italian,

I take your point - mine were champing at the bit to be at school and were quite stompy about starting late, but of course each child is different. I think it was that our SWs put all sorts of delays in and it made things more unsettled not less. The smalls are much calmer now they are in a routine with school.

Also, and this is as someone who has a six year old in Year 2 - there is a HUGE amount of learning going on now (stuff we didn't go near until 10-11) and they will have to take the test in May. My LO is at a normal local primary and there is homework, grammar, early algebra - it's all happening. It's tricky for mine, LO has a SLT disorder but for us trying to deal with all the stuff in the new curriculum is quite enough without facing catching up as well.

It has been a real surprise for me but I would say that Year 1 and 2 are much more focussed on actual proper learning than it was even last year and the benefits of delay need to be balanced against additional stress when they DO start. Of course each case is different but just my tuppence worth.

Hi Desmoulinsonatable It is really good your kids were champing at the bit to be at school, I am sure it will stand them well in education if they enjoy it. My adopted son enjoys school and seems to be doing well. But he was not ready to go when he had only just turned four (summer baby) and only been with us a few months so I can certainly see some kids would struggle.

I totally can see social workers can make things worse with delays, they do not always know what is right. And as a new parent to our son, who had only met our new child a matter of months, weeks or even days ago, we were not yet expert in the child! It was an amazing feeling a few months in when I did realise I was the expert in our child, prior to that I thought foster carer and social worker knew best as they knew our child best! It was amazing when I realised that our child had been with us longer than with foster family.

I would take issue with the phrase there is a HUGE amount of learning going on now (stuff we didn't go near until 10-11) and they will have to take the test in May.

• Because I would always argue (and remember I am coming from a place of being dyslexic, and hating school, and having a birth dd who is very dyslexic and also pretty much hates many aspects of school) that actually there is a lot of teaching going on at school.

Whether there is a lot, or indeed any, learning going on is dependent on the teacher but also the pupil. So a very distressed or overwhelmed or grief ridden child may well find learning hard so to put them in a place where they are under pressure to learn right at the time they are getting used to a new home and new family, does not seem right for all kids.

It may be right for some, and indeed in a foster placement where a child is not required to bond log term with a new family it may be completely right to present life as normal.

But this just is not life as normal. I would compare it to a woman or man being expected to return to work and get on and work within days of losing their marriage partner. And then for someone to say, 'Well we have a big presentation Monday, get your head in the game!

For a very small number of people work may be right in such circumstances, and I heard an actress (Judy Dench) on Radio 4 talking about returning to work surrounded by friends, after the death of her husband of 30 years, and it was the best thing for her. But this is not returning to school surrounded by friends, it is a new building (presumably) and new teachers and 20 plus new class mates.

Re My LO is at a normal local primary and there is homework, grammar, early algebra - it's all happening. It's tricky for mine, LO has a SLT disorder but for us trying to deal with all the stuff in the new curriculum is quite enough without facing catching up as well.

• It's totally up to parents how they deal with all this, personally I believ (and could find evidence in the media) there is evidence that homework has no or little effect on primary aged kids and in our dyslexic dd's case it made her very agitated and did not result in any learning. So we stopped it all together until Year 6.

I personally believe if kids can cope and learn they probably will catch up themselves in time (my son is) and if they struggle and have learning needs they will struggle and have learning needs no matter how much teaching is going on around them unless they themselves can apply what is presented (so presented in a way they can cope with) - so child is at centre of learning no the teacher (in the case of my dd). EG spelling for my dd it is like putting a person in a wheel chair in the middle of a jockey game and saying 'get up and hit the ball!'

Anyway, I am digressing madly so please excuse me Wilson and Desmoulinsonatable. My point is that there is a lot going on for kids newly placed and attachment is the very key thing you need to facilitate and not education at this early stage. It sounds like you are struggling a lot , Wilson so if school for your dd (part-time or whatever) would help you, you may wish to consider it but I personally would not be worrying about education at this stage for educations sake and certainly not because at age 6 they shoujd be in school - IMHO (in my humble opinion).

... just my tuppence worth too, we are all becoming experts in our own kids and they are all different.