Private diagnosis for schizophrenia?

[YouAreMyRain]

It's me again.
I have posted a similar thread in children's MH on here but there's not much traffic.
I thought some people on this area may (unfortunately) be able to help.

I have two adopted DD. DD1 is 8yo, under Camhs, lots of MH issues. We have had a horrendous few days with her trying to drown her sister (6yo) in the bath and saying that she wasn't angry, she just had a "feeling" that she "had to hold her head under the water until she stopped breathing".
I have spoken to Camhs and PAS, who were considering removing her as a risk to the other children (I have a one yr old DS who she has previously threatened) but have changed their mind.

Anyway, the main reason for this thread is that I am concerned that she is showing early signs of schizophrenia or a personality disorder.

Camhs in our area have said that they would not diagnose either of these until late teens or early twenties as the personality is still fluid until then.

I would be happy to pay privately as she may need meds and specialist treatment etc but I don't know how to find a private child psychiatrist who would do so. Any thoughts?

That's very interesting Rain... when you say I was just practising times tables with my DD and she was presenting as very "demand avoiding" so I starting saying, "if you get it right, you can tickle my feet" and she loved it. I suppose if I can see patterns and treat her according to those behaviours that are presenting at that point in time, it may be a way of coping, if nothing else!

I am not comparing my dd to yours but can I just say a lot of people say stick to your guns and say the same thing and present in a certain way etc etc. I tried all that with dd and it didn't work. I have now found, from a light bulb moment a couple of years ago, that she responds to emotional things so the most important thing for me is to make that connection with her and hug her and show I love her. Then she can relax and listen, before that it is all just noise, I think.

I do think you need to take the hearing voices things seriously but also look for what could be a cause. As you are doing, of course.

My mum was diagnosed with Parkingsons a long while ago and in the early stages she said she had seen an 'apparition'. I don't really believe in ghosts etc but I do think places can have a 'presence' etc so I immediately began wondering if the retirement flats had been built on an Native American burial ground (in the home counties!!).

But when we explored it what my mum meant, it was 'hallucinations'. Which are common with Parkinsons, or rather the type of dementia that we later learned it was.

How we describe things are vital. But I guess I feel hold those things and see what fits.

It may be easier to think of voices in one way or another and it may or may not be true. I guess it is like the labels. If the label fits it can be helpful. If it does not fit, it is not helpful. Having no label sounds nice but from talking to people who had unexplained infertility, or fertility issues (like me, secondary infertolity) not knowing why can sometimes be very hard. Like there is a label, but we just can't fine it.

I know exactly what you mean, greyhound. I had "unexplained infertility" and I was desperate for them to find something specifically wrong so they could fix it or at least so I would know what it was!

XH is back from his month long holiday to the other side of the globe tomorrow. No doubt he will blame me for all this or think I'm exaggerating (yes, there's a reason why he's an XH) I did suggest that him disappearing from the girls lives for a month might be unsettling, but I'm sure he'll see it as a coincidence.

Sending hugs to you today Rain.

Thanks.

XH is back from his month long holiday. I managed to meet up with him for a chat about everything that has happened.

Apparently DD is fine when she's with him so it's all in my head. I have "Munchausens by proxy"

If I parented the dds normally instead of therapeutically then they would be normal.

Him and his gf are prepared to have them apparently. He thinks I am bored of them and want to get rid of them because I have the baby now.

This is despite the fact that our marriage ended because he was horrible to the girls, abusive at times.

Now he thinks he can parachute in as "wonder dad" and him and his gf (no kids) can do a better job than me.

He kept asking me "so are you saying that DD is a complete nut-job?!"

Nice.

Just wanted to say something regarding the terms children use for their internal monologue. I definitely referred to it as a voice in my head when I was younger, amongst other things. I wasn't sure if others' experienced it too and found it very perplexing until I concluded it was normal. I assumed everyone went through a process of realising that but maybe not.

Rain I am very sorry that your ex is being so awful.

I'm sorry you're lumbered with such a stupid arsehole for an XH. I hope you aren't listening to any of that crap Rain. You are doing exactly the right things. Hugs

I can't believe I married him! I am so glad he's my eX

Rain I am sure it seems weird to look back and think you were married to him. But you both looked into adoption together and that is what brought your girls into your life.

I am gobsmacked your husband would say these cruel things. My daughter (10) sometimes says "You just want the baby (ds) now and not me." She is sometimes upset, emotional and jealous, and she is 10. Your ex sounds less mature than her! But he is your ex so do not think too much about his ravings, because you know you are doing your best for all your kids.

I just wanted to acknowledge the PMs that people have sent me. My phone app only lets me read the first few lines. When I get minute I will log on using the computer and read them properly.

PAS have rung and offered me an option of bringing in a consultant.
This consultant was doing play therapy with DD and myself, but then they realised how disturbed DD is and they lobbied Camhs and pushed for psychotherapy, then Camhs said to stop the play therapy while she's having the psychotherapy.

PAS said that if this consultant becomes involved again then DD may have to withdraw from Camhs.

Honestly I am going round in circles here.

Rain can't advise you, do you have a case worker or key person who can advise on the ins and outs of what is on offer? At least on the bright side (I know, not very bright but at least something) you have had contact and they are suggesting something.

A consultant in what ?
Forgive me but why can't she see a psychiatrist. ? What is their objection to this ?

Has she ever seen one ? How can they even begin if she's not seen one ? I just don't understand.
As someone who was involved child mental health (patient) a decade or so ago this is so strange to me.

I was referred to one straight away for a diagnosis then treatment.

DD has not seen a psychiatrist. The consultant is not a medical consultant but an adoption expert type person that the LA buys in.

I don't see how that's going to help her ?

Without at least some idea what's wrong how can they know what kind of therapy to give her ?

Can you push to be refered to one ?
I can't understand what they hope to achieve by going about it this way ?

What's PAS by the way ?

I don't mean she must get a cast iron diagnosis but at least some indication and pointers to what kind of therapy.

Sorry - PAS means Post Adoption Support.

That's why I'm asking for a referral to Family Futures or the Post Adoption Centre because they would do a "wide range of psycho- diagnostic testing"

DDs current assessment under Camhs is a neurodevelopmental assessment but apparently it's scope is limited to a "yes" or "no" to Autistic spectrum or adhd

A referral to PAS might be better then.

Who is doing this assessment at Cahms ?

PAS are my link at the Local Authority who hold the purse strings for support etc.

Psychologists are doing the Camhs assessment.

Why don't you ask school or camhs or social work to have a multi agency meeting? Get all the profs round a table with you? Get everyone to join up thinking, set some goals? Maybe ask to do it again every 6 months? This consultant could come as a consultant?

Has your psychologist discussed dd with the team psychiatrist. To be fair a senior psychologist may be as skilled in assx and risk mamagent as a psychiatrist.

Ok. Have they mentioned referring her to a psychiatrist at all ? Ever ?
I know psychologists can assess too but I don't think they can prescribe anything ?

What's she going to get prescribed? Kids that age (with the exception of ADHD) pretty much don't get prescribed anything. None of the tentative diagnoses discussed in this thread would indicate medication.

I've no idea. I'm no expert sorry.

But children can be prescribed drugs for say anxiety so I was going along the lines of there may be other disorders/diagnosis that can involve drugs too.

The diagnosis on this thread are tentative and could well be revised in the near future so honestly I don't know.

Maybe I'm thinking along totally the wrong lines.