Decision over who to take adoption leave

[Squigglypig]

Hi All

I just wondered if I could get some thoughts. We're getting near to our approval panel now and the SW would like us to clarify who will be taking adoption leave for LO.

I had always assumed it would be me, I took maternity leave with our birth daughter and I'm open and happy to take the time off work, although I do love my job and obviously it would be disruptive. However, my husband has looked into it in the past couple of weeks and obviously unlike maternity leave he would be equally entitled to leave and his work offers enhanced benefits whereas my work is purely statutory pay. He's not so happy in his role and has said that if it came to it he would leave his job (if LO wasn't ready to go to nursery/child care at end of AL) whereas I would definitely want to go back.

Financially it would make more sense for him to take it, I'm the higher earner although I currently work 4 days a week. And the feminist part of me wonders at myself for feeling like I should be the one at home but.... am I being unfair to LO as I took the maternity leave with my birth child and could it ruin my chances of bonding with LO?

Whomever doesn't take the leave will be making sure that they are also at home for the first few weeks in any case to settle LO.

Any perspectives on it would be very useful as we're currently very undecided - thanks.

Being practical, can you afford for you to be the SAHP? If not, it's not really a decision

FWIW, it did take longer for DH to bond with DD, but he did and unless there are specific reasons to be concerned (eg DC has already shown a strong preference for make carers, rejects female carers) you shouldn't assume that if you aren't there 24/7 you won't be able to build a bond

If DHs is the one who will become the SAHP, it makes more sense for him to take the adoption leave, as LO will be more bonded to him . Not sure how it woudl work if LO if you take 12 months leave, are at home FT, then go back to work and LO is with dad FT.

It's not that likely that LOL will be able to cope with nursery 4 full days a week after just 12 months with you TBH. It's very hard for a traumatised child :-(

You are supposed to be able to split it, could you not do 6 months each? We looked into this but can't afford for DH to be off that long (he's gutted).

I wouldnt worry about the fact you took time off with BC as it could be very much argued other way, as in why does Daddy get to be off!

We have chosen one year's adoption leave for me and 2 weeks paternity with 2 weeks annual leave continuing on from that for DH. He said glad it was this long, as any shorter with the intro time taking first 2 weeks of that he would not have liked. The bonding has been done in that time but obviously the attachment will take a lot longer and probably longer for him than me, but that is going to happen for one of you either way! He very much gets the excited hugs at end of day, I get the tantrums and rest of it, so be sure that suits you....in our case other way round may not work aswell due to previous experience with children.

Hope you figure it out.....difficult one. In the end, fact finances made our decision for us probably helped, so we didn't have to make it ourselves. Good luck.

I am doing 4 1/2 months during which time my husband is working 2 1/2 days, home 4 1/2 and then I go back to work five days and my husband will work one day (Saturday) for at least a further year. We share the care of our son at present. I think both he and daddy will very much enjoy daddy daycare!

Thanks all. I don't think we can split it although that would be my preferred option with me taking first half and DH doing other half. I seem to remember Nick Clegg talking about it for maternity leave and apparently it's coming in in April for civil servants but not for anyone else as yet. I think the sticking point is around how the maternity pay is worked out.

Either of us could take the year off and it would be affordable, we're pretty fortunate on that score, but it doesn't make it any easier knowing what the right thing to do is. I do know my DH is pretty fed up with his work and think he'd quite like a year off, and I think he'd be great but I think he's no idea how hard it might be (purely speaking from my experience with BD let alone any adoption issues).

Anyway, any more thoughts/experiences would be appreciated.

No you can't split adopters leave, there has to be a 'primary adopter'. As you took the time off with your first child then maybe its fair that DH now gets a chance to do the same.

For a child who has lost their birth mother, then at least one Foster carer, I think that having another two primary carers within a few months woudl be a very bad idea . It's far too disruptive

BTW, I know it's not " fair " . But if life was fair, our children would have been born into families who were able to care for them .

OP,you're mainly talking about 'feminism and finances',and not much about any maternal feelings that you should maybe have. I think that you should be the primary 'bonder'.

Hi

I think there is a work round called 'additional paternity leave' until April which achieves the same effect - have a look at this link www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/leave

I would also have concerns about a change over of primary carer, but I do know an adoptive family who are doing this and for whom it's working remarkably well. Every family and adoption situation is different.

Do you know, after I wrote that I thought about the split being disruptive but haven't had time to get back to re-post. However, it would work in our specific adoption without having a disruptive impact, as the last post says, every situation is different, just as some in some adoptions children may have had a bad experience with men and the Dad being the main carer would be a no no at matching. You can only really know that based on the information you have from CPR and social workers advice. Have you considered talking to your sw about who should? Oh and with regards splitting I don't know law on it but our social worker suggested it, hence my presumption you could, sorry!

Hi willow, how interesting to see you on the adoption threads. I didn't know you had any adopted children .

You do know, don't you, that the OP is talking about a theoretical child that May be placed with them in about a year or two , IF they are approved and IF they are matched. How much " maternal " feeling did you have for your children two years before they were conceived ?

Did your childrens father take a years paternity leave ? If not, were you not concerned that this showed a lack of paternal feeling ? Surely he wasn't worried about finance ????

I was going to post a bit more when DS appeared in search of breakfast :)

DH and I managed to take some time off together and then, although I've taken the majority of actual paid leave, he and I work part time and share care of the kids. From our experience I think there are two particular benefits in an adoptive family to having a more shared model of care and/or having dads more involved:

1. Adoptive parenting can be very hard work if you have a young one who has attachment difficulties. It's far better if you can work as a supportive team - and to an extent I would say that means sharing the day to day joys and challenges.

1. Some adopted kids - not all- do seem to find it harder to bond with the adoptive mother. No idea why unless it's bound up in the initial loss of their birth mum. But it's not unusual for the adoptive mum to be the recipient of a lot of tricky emotions. In the case of our first DS, while he struggled to form his relationship with me, he very rapidly bonded with DH. I knew he could and would do it with me eventually (and he did!!) because I could see it happening with DH. So I think there is a potential benefit there.

I think from what you say a good heart to heart with your DH may be in order though - does he positively want to parent your birth daughter plus new adopted child, or is he desperate to leave his job?
Id want to be sure the former was the one.
How comfortable does he feel with day to day parenting of your DD and how much does he currently do? Will you have time to 'up skill' him if needed, before a child is placed?

I only say all that because the early days of adopting are very hard work and (from someone who didn't!) it is a lot easier if you have a good skill set for parenting and an understanding of what small children are like. Hope that makes sense. I wouldn't use it as a reason to say you must have the year out (not off!), but if DH wants to, perhaps you need to think about how he can prepare himself.

Would your DD have a view? How old is she? She's going to find all this a big shock to the system (speaking from experience of DD hitting DS, as it were), and it may be worth considering her preferences if you are currently primary carer - are you?

Sorry between breakfast swimming lessons and tantrums I didn't quite read the original post - sorry.

I think there is a good chance that an adopted LO will struggle to be ready for 4 days a week nursery/childminder by the end of a year. I had one placed age 1 for whom it would have been totally wrong, and one who was placed at two and fine with 1-2 days nursery age 3. But she is about as unscathed as they come in terms of early experiences, and that 1-2 days felt like plenty even for her.
So if your DH is ready and willing to leave his job / drop hours at the end of adoption leave, I think it would be great to look at shared or sole adoption leave for him.

I'm adopted myself Kristina,and am entitled to my opinion.

I'd say the parent who is open to the idea of staying off longer term should be the one to stay at home the first year. In order to maximise the chances of stability of care arrangements.

Which is male and which is female should not be the deciding factor in the way it can be after giving birth and with breast feeding.

2 years in I would say that the financial side is a factor that cannot ignored.

Start saving like billy-o now because children are very expensive and you have the chance to build a nest egg. If your Dh has better terms it would seem a no brainer really.

Good luck and I am sure you will work it all out

Yes willow, you are entitled to your opinion . But suggesting to a prospective adoptive mother that maybe she should have maternal feelings is crass and insensitive .

Most father don't take a full year of paternity leave and yet no one ever implies that they are lacking in paternal feelings

The main thing for adopted children is consistency of carer, not necessarily the gender

And of course finance and feminism come into it. Unless of course you are rich enough to not have to worry about money and entitled enough not to have to worry about equality

Thank you for all your views, we had a chat this morning and DH is very serious about wanting to do it. He also thinks there's a possibility he may be made redundant anyway (although to be fair he's been saying this for last 7 yes and it's never happened). At the moment he's a very hands on dad with DD, who is coming up to 4. I don't think he'd find it any harder than I would.

Obviously this is all very hypothetical as Kristina points out so it may well all change but for now we'll proceed on basis that he's primary carer. This does not mean that I will love LO less and I don't want to miss out entirely so during that year I would change my hours so that I can be at home at least 2 afternoons a week to relieve DH / help out.

Then at the end of the year we will see and of course we'll do whatever is best for LO at that stage.

That sounds great then and good luck to him!

Squiggly pig - one other thought

It woudl be worth discussing with your DH how you think the chores will be divided if he's the one who takes parental leave and you are working 0.8 WTE ( I assume you mean the 4 days over 5 as you will be at home 2 afternoons per week ) .

IME it sees that when women go on maternity leave , they usually also take on most if not all of the household and child related chores

However, when men are SAHD, this doesn't seem to be the case . NAMALT this of course .

My friends DH took the adoption leave, for reasons smilar to your own. She was the higher earner. He got better conditions and pay from his employer . Also He hated his job and wanted to spend the leave writing a book .

When he was on leave he acted much like a babysitter -he fed and cared for the child when he was with her but did no chores, not even child related ones like shopping for food, washing clothes or tidying . My friend still did all the organising of parties, paydates, birthdays and Christmas , holidays , child related shopping ( clothes, toys, shoes ) , dentist ,doctors , social worker and hairdressers appointments etc , all the laundry , all the cleaning , all the food shopping , most of the DIY.

He literally just looked aftre their DD when she was at work. That's what he thought the deal was. Whenever she was not at work, she was 100% totally responsible for everything .

Of course that was them and I'm not saying your situation is the same . But
it might be worth having the conversation now, rather than it causing stress later on if one of you is not happy with the way things are working out .

Kristina- I feared what you described and headed it off at the pass! It seems to be working as when I came home today from a day out with my pixie, my husband had returned from work and tidied the kitchen.

We already employ a cleaner once a week which makes a difference. Otherwise chores are pretty much split evenly; I probably do the laundry more and he does the washing up more. I do know what you mean, I expect I may end up sorting appointment so and doing the household admin, but I already do much of that as I'm a control freak! We have a pretty solid partnership really. Obviously if it becomes more permanent then maybe luxuries like cleaner will go but we'll cope (our house will just get dirtier).

I'm just about to show DH thread so he's on notice!