How to guage how things are going?

[Italiangreyhound]

I would really like some advice from any wise adopters who have seen how kids settle into their new home and how things develop in terms of behaviour, please.

Anyone up for giving me some advice, please?

Thanks.

My little lad has been home almost five months and has gone from strength to strength. He seems to totally accept and love me as mummy - in fact calls me a whole selection of names, Mummy, Mum, and Mother (said like a comedy cockney 'Muthar' - he is not a cockney!).

Likewise, he loves his dad and totally loves and accepts his sister, our dd.

Preschool is going well, he is going in OK, twice a week, no tears now (after the first few weeks of tears) but lots of smiles and kisses when I collect him.

He is mostly a dream to parent

But as he is now home a while I am noticing alongside the good stuff his behaviour has got 'worse' in terms of 'naughty' behaviour, defiance etc, and just generally not doing what I ask etc.

So for example today we had breakfast in the lounge as a treat (normally it is up the dining room table). TV was on (Horrid Henry the movie) and all I required was my two kids to sit on their little chairs up the big coffee table to eat cereal and drink milk rather than on the sofa with the cushions and blanket etc (because of the potential for spills and stains etc!).

It's often dd who causes trouble but today she was fine and it was ds! Lots of complaints from ds, shouting and screaming etc. He wanted to be all snuggled on the sofa and not bother with breakfast. Eventually we got there but not before he had had some time out of the living room, with me, and shouted so loud I had to cover my ears.

He is also occasionally trying to hit me.

His most common comment, when he is upset and I ask why, is "I don't know."

I want to be sympathetic, empathic etc but at times the screening is so loud I have had to leave the room and be in plain sight. Today I felt it was not right to leave the room and leave him screening in front of dd so I made him leave with me and we both sat on the steps and I tried to explain again what I wanted him to do. I do not feel it was unreasonable to want him to have a breakfast and drink at about 10.30!

What does worry me slightly is that when his behaviour is really 'naughty' I feel very cross and I kind of want to switch off and say OK just get on with it. I feel very negative emotions at those moments. I can't really say they are any different to the feelings I have about dd (so it is not about him being adopted). it just feels I am being taken for a fool!

I am quite fair, I think, not exactly equal treatment for kids but age appropriate equal, sharing treats and food and toys and stuff. I feel I am always trying to be a peace maker, help dd and ds get on, thinking of fun things to do etc. Not being hard on them when they make a mess (thy love making a mess in the garden) and I feel I take all this but actually only ask for really the basics in return!

Yet sometimes it gets a bit too much and I feel cross.

Maybe I should be really strict and they would see what it was like!

But I am not strict. I am what might be called a liberal parent, in some ways, I feel my demands are few, others might disagree, my dh is even more laid back than me!

The kids often have untidy bedrooms, messy faces, messy hair etc! And although I point out what would be good and helpful, I try and let them take the lead. Recently we went out with friends for a pub dinner. DD complained a lot that she did not want to go and when we got there they both had a total blast! There was a fun thing in the garden, the food was great and there were lots of other kids and they all played together. They were like bottles of coke that had been fizzed up, all full of fun.

So I feel they have a nice time and I made no fuss at all that they got totally muddy etc.

Part of our journey to and from the pub involved walking close to a busy road. I insisted on holding 4 year old ds's hand all the way there and back just by the road bit. He was incandescent with rage at the indignation of being made to hold my hand! He wanted to walk with dd but I felt at 10 she is not old enough to be responsible for him by a busy road. It was my responsibility so I had to just hang onto his arm and insist again and again 'It is not safe to walk alone.' 'Your sister is not a grown up so I need to hold your hand' etc etc. At one point he nearly pushed me into the bloody road!

I guess it was just a fact I had to be firm because the alternative of him falling into the road was too real a possibility but it was frustrating because when he first came to us I think he would have accepted he needed to hold my hand by roads!

So really I guess I just want to know this is all normal and hopefully the behaviour will level out and not keep getting 'naughtier'.

I am finding the more TV they get and the more open and non-strict I am the more naughty behaviour I get so I am wondering if I really do need to be a bit stricter. But as a mum to a dd with dyslexia and a newly adopted ds I certainly do not want to be strict. I want to be empathetic.

Any advice from parents, especially whose kids joined their family by adoption, very gratefully received.

Please do not advise I read this or that book! I too am dyslexic and I really struggle to get reading done even though I can read perfectly well.

Please go easy on me. I have been through the range of emotions for last 24 hours of how boisterous my ds has been!

I am rightly proud he can cope with so many situations and seems to have fun but I wonder if it is too much for him, because of the behaviour. If behaviour is language is he telling em we are doing too many fun things?

We really only have a few things we do, a visit to a friend and then maybe two outings or activities a week which could be a visit to a place like a wildlife sanctuary or to a park or swimming pool. Really the pub dinner is only something we do about four times a year!

Thanks.

If you made it though that massive post! Thank you. . Life is good and I am happy but I really do want to get the balance right for ds and dd.

Italian I had a very dear friend whose parents are wise and experienced parents who fostered many children over the years and raised 3 bio kids. My friend's mom once told me to think of a child as a goldfish in a bowl. The goldfish pushes against the sides of the bowl every now and again to check that they're still there, and this makes him feel safe. Children need boundaries to feel safe, and they push against those boundaries because that's their job. Your job is to decide where the boundaries should be - appropriate for the child's age and level of maturity - and to enforce them.

I think your ds now feels safe enough with you to act out. He knows you're not going to disappear. I may be wrong about this and hopefully one of the more experienced adopters will weigh in soon.

If a four year old has to walk by the side of a busy road then you have to hold on to him, no question. He can perform all he wants but that is not negotiable, so you just get on with it as best you can. That's not being strict, that's being a responsible parent.

As for the breakfast incident... was part of the problem maybe that his blood sugar was really low because it was so late? Or had he eaten something earlier on? I think you handled it as well as you could under the circumstances. "We don't eat on the sofa" is a reasonable enough rule.

I am finding the more TV they get and the more open and non-strict I am the more naughty behaviour I get so I am wondering if I really do need to be a bit stricter. - I find the same thing wrt tv and computer time, DD is definitely worse behaved if screen time is not restricted. As for open and non-strict, kids will try their luck. It's the boundaries thing again. You could say to DS "I can see you are very unhappy that you cannot sit on the sofa with me, but you need to eat first because your tummy is hungry. Are you going to eat here at the dining room table, or at the coffee table with your sister? When your breakfast is finished we can snuggle on the sofa." Then keep reiterating the choices. You're acknowledging his feelings while keeping the boundary firm. Alternatively "Ok DS, you can sit on the sofa with me for 10 minutes but when that time is up you must get down and eat your breakfast". This might just postpone the unhappiness, or it might actually work, you won't know until you try.

Yet sometimes it gets a bit too much and I feel cross. - Any parent who doesn't feel like that sometimes is superhuman. I for one am not and yes I often get cross and sometimes behave in ways that I'm not proud of. Kids do that to you. Don't beat yourself up about it.

Thanks lastinglight that is all really helpful.

I wish it was as easy to solve in-the-moment issues with rl kids as it is to leisurely come up with answers to other people's problems on the internet!

I don't know if this helps, but as others have said before now, mine started to be a bit 'naughty' and test me when they felt safer. Not that knowing that made it any easier for me to deal with, when I was tired, stressed etc! But it is a backhanded compliment if your DS has got a bit naughty. So he would have held your hand by the road without a fuss when first placed, because he was on his best behaviour, he didn't know you or what you might do, but now he feels a bit more secure he feels safe enough to push you and see what happens.

For DD (placed at 5) the point of change in behaviour was a combination of feeling a bit safer, and starting part time school which meant she was trying to hold it together and be 'perfect' there, and letting it all out at home. I don't know if your DS has anything like that with his preschool? For DS who was placed at 20 months and with no speech, his behaviour didn't get more challenging but he had a phase where he stopped giving me kisses - he did in the beginning, then had a period when he didn't kiss me, then started again. I think that was the point he was grieving for his FCs and had understood this was a permanent change. I think your DS is somewhere in between age wise? Maybe when you ask him why he's kicked off or how he feels, he really doesn't know, he can't put a name to the confusing ideas and feelings he has about everything that has happened? My DD although older can't put a name to how she feels when she's lost it. She will occasionally say she's worried, which encompasses nervous anxious etc but that's about it, and she never easily admits to being in the wrong or having behaved less than acceptably or gone overboard.

I wondered when you said about the treat of having breakfast in front of the TV, whether although it was a treat it was also partly scary or too much for your DS, that the boundary which has had learned was fixed (where you eat breakfast) suddenly moved just as he trusted it, and he couldn't handle that. Maybe something like that is more difficult to manage his feelings about, than that you are doing too many fun things? It put me in mind of one time when mine wanted to watch TV and have popcorn and I thought 'ohh yes lovely family bonding time' and we popped the popcorn together and snuggled down with a big bowl on my lap just like in an advert - and they couldn't cope with all sharing from one bowl, they both (well mostly DD) got panicky about the other getting more or them not getting their needs met, and it went pearshaped. At the time I was miffed and felt like 'we can't even have this normal moment', but now I can see what it was about.

And wrt to feeling cross, I had no idea I could get so cross, I really didn't. They really can push your buttons! If it makes you feel any better, yesterday while I was trying to wrestle both mine into pyjamas and they were both boinging around on my bed shouting and paying no attention to me, I shouted at DS - only for him to shout back 'No! Won't stop bouncing on mummy's bed and park bum on fipping nappy!' Just an example of my fine parenting!!

Thanks nothingcomestonothing very helpful.At least he said 'flippin' and nothing more serious! It's hard but worth it isn't it.

And yes, ds was placed at 3, now is 4.

Hello,

Sorry if this repeats what PP's have said, but is it possible that the "treat" of late relaxed breakfast felt like the possible beginning of chaos to your DS? Usual routine not happening, food coming late, and not understanding why...he may have been scared previous experiences of not being cared for might be repeated? I only say this because my DD (bit younger but not much) has huge anxiety about routine change, and needs a lot of preparation and ongoing repetition and reassurance about every part of the day. Talking her through it once or twice just doesn't cut it, and she becomes genuinely fearful. Much as I would love a later breakfast on weekends, we can't do it yet . One day!

My DD also freezes if asked to choose or "take the lead" - asking her to do that is not a treat, it's scary for her because she wants so desperately to get it right. She is emotionally too young to handle it. I am building up to it by giving her very small "hidden" choices ("can you get me a plate from your special drawer please?") where I don't explicitly ask her to choose a colour, but she knows that whatever she picks will be "right", because all the plates in there are hers, and choosing a colour won't affect when her dinner comes.

All that hasn't actually answered your title question about how you assess how it's going...um, your instincts I guess! I don't really know, except that little by little, day by day, your DS and you get to know each other at a deeper level, and communicate with and without words. It's a long (sometimes frustrating!) process, but you're already on the path and moving along well. If you think his behaviour is trying to show you he needs his world to be kept smaller, your judgment is probably better than anyone else's could be. He might need no new places, or he might need more preparation for new things, or both. We use photos and visual maps of what will happen for new places that are unavoidable (i.e. hospital) so that on the day, it feels more familiar and we have a better chance of getting through it calmly (fingers crossed)!

Thanks nothingcomestonothing ....

*I wondered when you said about the treat of having breakfast in front of the TV, whether although it was a treat it was also partly scary or too much for your DS, that the boundary which has had learned was fixed (where you eat breakfast) suddenly moved just as he trusted it, and he couldn't handle that. Maybe something like that is more difficult to manage his feelings about, than that you are doing too many fun things?(

I like the idea it is not the fun things as do not want to stop them! Breakfast in front of TV happens about once a fortnight so not so unusual I think.

and

Thanks Upsydaisymustdie....

Sorry if this repeats what PP's have said, but is it possible that the "treat" of late relaxed breakfast felt like the possible beginning of chaos to your DS? Usual routine not happening, food coming late, and not understanding why...he may have been scared previous experiences of not being cared for might be repeated?

Good to explore all areas but no, he could have had breakfast at any time. neither of my kids have huge appetites and would rather watch tv than eat almost any time. He just wanted to stay where he wanted to and he was not interested in breakfast or sitting to eat it.

DS does seem OK about flexibility as long as evening meal is not too late.
Actually he is fine with new places, I think he is quite atypical. I think sometimes it just all gets a bit much and he wants to do what he wants to do. I also fear he is learning some of this behaviour from my dd!!!! [cross]

Thanks so much for replying.

Hi Italian,

I've only had a brief read through your post however I feel as though you are doing great, I wish I had half of your patients sometimes with DS!

DS is 5, we get a lot of 'I don't knows' when we ask him anything too/how he is feeling/ well anything to be honest, which does frustrate DH and I but he is getting a little better at responding.

I would say it sounds as though he is becoming more settled/secure with you if he is able to act in those ways. Which is fab. We are 11 months in and it is just VERY recently DS has started to become cheekier, not listening, not feeling the need to overly comply with everything that is asked of him. He is also getting into trouble quite a lot at school! We are actually very pleased and proud on some level as it has taken him until now to finally start to 'relax' and not feel the need to 'be good all of the time'.

I would just say ride with it, you will come across different behaviors and no doubt you will deal with them in different ways (well I do!) until we come to something that suits both me and DS. Until we have an understanding. Everything I've noticed with DS so far has been a 'phase' so it could be the same for your LO too. They all represent the tip of the iceberg I feel so we just deal with them as and when they arise.

You however are much wiser than I am so please ignore me if all of this makes no sense! I just thought I'd share my experiences.

Hi Italian, our DS is similar in terms of age and time home. Just thought I'd send some sympathy your way! I also get the screaming/melt downs/hitting/etc. it can be hugely stressful for me and for him, really. For DS I would say more often than not it results from being tired or needing even more attention from me (which can sometimes feel never-ending) or feeling overwhelmed by things. I definitely also get the sense he is testing boundaries. Repetition is king in our house. He is not rigid in terms of routine, but we do need to keep fairly close to it. We do a great deal of work on emotions, e.g. Parr flash cards, Anthony Browne book, talking about feelings of characters in his books and relating back to his own emotions in certain situations. Over and over...

Hugs to redfish - if I have to draw one more Mr Men sad face I may scream! Doing a truckload of work on identifying and reflecting emotions back to LO here too, and it's tough. Nice to know we are on the same wagon!
Spent most of today going "I can see you're very angry X, and that's a big feeling to hold inside. Can we think of a better way to let that out so we don't hurt you or hurt Mummy?" Agh.

Oh redfishbluefish and Upsydaisymustdie now I feel like a total fraud as I don't think I'm having 'issues' to the same degree. I think ds knows when he is upset some time, when he does not get what he wants, so some emotions he has got pinned.

Maybe I need to get into ...Parr flash cards, Anthony Browne book, talking about feelings of characters in his books and relating back to his own emotions ... !! Can you say more, please?

Upsydaisymustdie, hugs right back to you too! I had to chuckle at your post-I am so with you on this I may as well have written it myself. It is nice indeed to not feel like the only one.

Italian, you are not a total fraud! It is hard going sometimes and when you're the one dealing with things that's all that matters.

Parr flash cards: Todd Parr Feelings Flash Cards Cards – 29 Oct 2010
by Todd Parr (Author). Not perfect, but generally useful, especially as they are colourful and a good size, feel solid in the hand, can prop them up.

Browne book: How Do You Feel? Hardcover – 6 Sep 2012
by Anthony Browne (Author, Illustrator). The monkey is a bit odd looking, but again, it has worked for us. Straightforward and easy to follow.

So essentially we review the cards and read the book (not at the same time). We talk about what the feelings mean and relate each emotion to a specific example when DS has felt that way. And when he is experiencing that emotion live, he will sometimes refer to the flash cards or the book ('like in the monkey book'/'like in the flash cards'). When we read books together, I will highlight where the characters are experiencing emotions we discussed in the Browne book or the flash cards, then maybe touch on one of his own such instances. Obviously this stuff takes place when he is calm enough to engage. Like upsydaisymustdie indicated, there are further steps to be taken to get to that point!