"Finding Mum and Dad" - Channel 4, 10PM on the 15th

[Lilka]

This program needs its own thread

It explores adoption parties as a way of finding families for hard to place children, with a special focus on two little boys called Connor and Daniel, aged 7 and 5 now.

The Daily Mail have done an article about it today and also spoken to another family who found their son (who has a complex heart condition) at an adoption party - here

Heartbreakingly, the article says that the 3 adoption parties Connor and Daniel have attended haven't resulted in them finding a family. So the newspaper articles and the Channel 4 program are the last last ditch and if there's no family found through the TV program, then the boys plan will change to permanent fostering instead.

Also heartbreakingly I wonder how this is going to impact on them as they grow older if they aren't found a family

Would any of you consider letting your children watch this, aged about 8-10? DS is 8yrs 11mths, and he saw an advert for this and asked what it was about and now he wants to watch. He can't watch on the night with me and DD2 because it's on too late, but I'm not sure whether to record it for him to watch with me at the weekend or not?

She said they have no apparent learning difficulties, not saying they aren't developmentally delayed, which they appear to have made good ground on while they've been with her.

So heartbreaking, we both got wet eyes. Saw our previous SW at the round-table meeting!

Pikak, what developmental problems? I didn't pick up on anything but then I've no experience. I really hope they find a family, they seemed so loving.

this room think is making me very angry. Ffs why would those 2 little boys need to be separated into their own bedrooms, thus cutting out all the potential adopters who only have one spare room! What the hell does it matter as long as they have a good relationship and the room is big enough? Lots of brothers share a bedroom.

Devora Exactly. I would never condemn anyone for not feeling equipped to parent an older child, or a child with significant issues - precisely because I've lived it, and the emotions! Funny how most people who do that, haven't adopted and have no intention to do so! I DO desperately want to see more people considering older children and adopting them, but that isn't the same thing at all.

To those who asked - yes, any child you adopt needs to be younger than your biological children, for very good reasons. The age gap SS go on is usually 2 years minimum

I think that if birth siblings have been room sharing in foster care and haven't had any major issues with this, then adoptive parents with only one spare room could be considered BUT they need a Plan B if the room sharing stops working out

But really, unless we're talking birth siblings who already share, it's not a good idea to bring in a new child and make them share their room, which is why it's not allowed except in exceptional circumstances

flatmum, there are often very good reasons why adopted children need their own room. You can't compare it with birth siblings who have grown up with their birth parents. At the point where you apply to get assessed to be an adopter, no-one knows who you will end up being matched with.

I am very proud to be Mumsnet's one and only adopter who was approved to adopt while living in a two bed flat with an existing child. I am the only person I have ever met who pulled this off. (But I did, in the end, move before adopting, and I'm very glad I did.)

Our son was only 2 when we met him and he was considered older for adoption. Crazy!

I think it's inevitable that most adopters will want young children, but I'm convinced improved post-adoption support would make a difference. It's the fear of being left on your own, valiantly trying to parent a really traumatised child, knowing how fantastically difficult it can be to get proper support, that is so frightening.

Adoption of 'hard to place' children should be offered with a much stronger partnership deal with the placing agency, so the adopters can feel confident that whatever happens, they will not be abandoned to get on with it alone.

Well said Devora I completely agree

Yes that makes sense not to bring an adopted child in to share a room with a birth child, of course. I could see how tht would lead to resentment and other issues. I meant more why couldn't adopted siblings like the brothers in the program go to a family with only one spare room? All things being equal of course.

I do understand that it is easy for people like me with no experience of the adoption process to write these glib questions on a forum. And I also understand about the hidden issues and the problems that come with adopting badly damaged children. I am genuinely interested to hear more though. To the layman it does just seem incredible that it isn't easier to place children with parents who are desperate for children - totally get what you are saying about post-adoptive support though.

My parents friends adopted 2 boys from India 30 odd years ago. In those days no one was told anything about background etc though they knew it was bad. One of them settled in fine and had a very good life along with their biological daughter. The youngest didnt and is now a drug addict with a lot of problems. He caused them a lot of issues from age 5/6, although adopted as a young baby. She says now, constantly, I wish wed stopped at 2 and not adopted him, he ruined our life. It turned out he had been terribly ill and abused and has learning difficulties. They were left to get on with it with no support at all, very sad.

I've just made myself deeply unpopular on t'other thread on this subject, Lilka, telling them off for judging potential adopters. I think I'll get my coat and beat a hasty retreat...

I think I've killed that thread stone dead

I've posted too now!

Off to investigate the one on Chat now...

Do you think we were too much the meanie adoption mafia? I don't like doing a "Well, speaking as ...." to challenge people, but it just slightly sticks in the craw when people who have no understanding of adoption simultaneously romanticise it while criticising prospective adopters as having too rose-tinted a view of adoption...

I think I may have fallen below my usual standards of articulacy there...

Time for bed!

Watching it now on catch up.

I feel very unsure if I can go to one of these now. I am not sure I would cope very well with it all!

Really uncomfortable with all the talk of 'selling' (a sofa etc), really makes me feel uncomfortable. And the phrase 'working the room' in the relation to the social worker! What else is she meant to do, sit and drink coffee!!

Lilka it is that which would worry me *the talk of 'selling') if I were showing this to any child. Personally, I might say before watching something like 'Those silly adults keep talking about selling a child, we know that it is not like that at all!' Or something similar.

Would rather people talked about choosing someone, a girlfriend, a husband, a friend, even a tennis coach!

Devora I totally agree with you about "Second, many adopters have suffered fertility problems and I am not going to condemn them for wanting to experience parenting a baby, or at least a toddler."

People who have not had fertility problems and can afford to (and maybe some who can't afford to) have as many children as they wish to, they want to get pregnant and they do and they have a baby. I sometimes think there is a mismatch with adoption and people who have had fertility issues. Of course it does make sense but in order to be able to adopt you kind of have to climb out of the mentality of wanting that birth child. But no one would dream of saying to a family who have another birth child, why didn't you adopt an older child instead!

I agree Devora "I think the only people qualified to criticise potential adopters for this are those who have themselves adopted a 'hard to place' child."

BobPatSamandIgglePiggle why would it be out of order to put the documentary on when you r dp is in thr room, it;s on catch up!

ColdFeetWarmHeart good luck with talking to your DH. I think it is much more sensible to adopt a child younger than your daughter.

Are there any articles on line about the making of this. Any updates on the kids?

I wonder if they would make a documentary about a profiling or exchange event where kids are not present. Not as 'exciting' or visuual for TV maybe (just people milling about looking at profiles and watching video clips) but I would be interested to hear the difference in terms of outcome.

DD2 watched this with me, by the way

She watched mostly in silence while cuddling me. Afterwards she said, "Mum, that lady said about buying a sofa from DFS. Is it like that?"

At the end, I asked her what she thought and she said, "Uh…I didn’t like it because no one wanted to play with Connor and Daniel and they didn’t get adopted”

She's been left feeling a bit upset

Which only adds to my negative feelings about adoption parties

I do think that the program lacked the adoptee viewpoint. These parties have been going on in the US for some time. I feel the program would really have benefitted if it had interviewed an adult adoptee, or adult care leaver, about their experience of attending adoption parties. If we're doing this for the children, we should be giving those children and adult the biggest voice and giving their experiences a lot of repsect and consideration

Sorry DD2 feels upset about it. Can you reassure her that the outcomes are better? The children would wait longer without those adoption activity days.

I felt the language used in the programme was terrible. Buying a sofa, it's a buyer's market, damaged goods etc.

Hi Im new to posting on here (although I joined years ago)

I have just watched this programme as I recorded it. I have mixed views on the activity day. Many years ago, my grandparents visited a Children's home, spotted my mum and later on adopted her. So perhaps it is quite a nice way to meet.

My husband and I seriously considered adopting a few years ago. We have birth children (although that was by a sheer miracle) and we wanted to give a child a forever family. We went through most of a preparatory course on it. We pulled out about 2/3 through the course because of a couple of factors:-

1. We were told that there was a case going through the courts about an adoptive family who were moving house to another town due to work. The birth parents were against the decision for the family moving and took the case to court. We live 400 miles from family, so if work ever moved us, then we would have to move....even if it was overseas.

2. Adoptive parents who were explaining their experiences said that the child they adopted was from the area in which they lived. Also roads were recognised by the child on a bus with adoptve parent and there was even one occasion of the birth father recognising their birth child through a window (their job was a door-to-door type)

3. Sadly we felt uncomfortable with the prospect of adopting within a 100 mile radius of our home and equally uncomfortable with birth family links, until a child is 18. (From my mother's experience she knew she was adopted from a young age, however without contact she had a very stable upbringing. As an adult, and when adoptive parents had passed away, she found her birth parents. She realises that her life was far calmer and better than it would have been otherwise)

It just might have been the agency we saw ....unsure if its a UK wide thing????

Its a difficult situation and I really hope that a family are found soon for Daniel and Connor - together. They would probably be best sharing a room together for companionship sake .... They seem such lovely boys.

Good luck to all of the children needing adopting.

Our two have been home 6 months.

We didn't choose 1 of each - we were shown one side of A4 with their characteristics, likes, health issues and history - we expressed interest and then were given full info and their photo. We never went any further.

but we had been very clear about what we could cope with and what we couldn't. The 'rejecting' of children isn't quite as it seemed on the programme. Firstly, much of the decision is out of your hands as adopters. Secondly, you aren't saying 'ooh, I really wanted a blonde one'. You might be saying (like we did) 'We have no road access so we couldn't support a child with significant mobility difficulties'.

The phrase 'harder to place' is one that you don't get to understand till you've been through the training etc. this could be children that have experienced significant neglect, therefore missing connections in their brain, causing them to behave or develop sometimes years below where you would expect. This could be children who have memories of sexual/physical abuse - not all parents are strong enough to have those conversations and help a child deal with that - they may exhibit over sexualised behaviour for example - imagine a 2 year old girl doing that....

It could be children whos birth parents have used drugs or alcohol while they were in the womb and who's health prognosis will perhaps never be clear - but certainly can't be predicted now.

most of the children above will present as 'normal, happy, engaging children'. So i think the show made the adopters look picky where the conversation about fit will have been very long thought and tough to do. In my little network of adopters, many people say you never forget the face of a child you turned down - its not something people should be criticised for.

One of the things we've learnt is that people say all the time how sociable ours are - there is a lot of evidence to suggest that the fact that they go up to all sorts of adults (strangers included) and chat is about their brains unconsciously deciding that they need to befriend every adult as the next one they meet could be the next person to take them away :-(.

I love our two massively, but having just had a day of wonderful morning at nursery and then huge 4 hour meltdown as soon as we got to the safety of home, I would be lying if I said it was easy.

The film didn't explain that children don't get to adoption parties until they are in the 'harder to place category. And sadly that has a reason.

There are magazines where childrens faces and profiles are included - we found these so difficult to look at - and friends made comments about 'argos catalogues for kids'.

But the reality is that the ration is something like 100 children to 1 family in this country right now. In my city 300 children are waiting right now - and those numbers have been similar for the last 5 years - only 40 children were placed in 2013.

So I think before we criticise people who are trying to do something about it - we should realise that I'ms ure they wouldn't choose to do it this way, if they had a supply of applications to adopt. But if this increases the number of children placed, we need to swallow our discomfort and go for it.

C

If anyone is interested in this topic, and watching someting else about it....there was another great documentary which aired on Channel 4 in 2005 or 2006, which was a lot about the use of adoption parties/tv appearances in the US to find adoptive parents. It followed two 14 year old girls who both really wanted to find an adoptive family and appeared on TV and attended parties to try and find new parents. It was also desperately sad at times but well done. It's called "Adopt Me, I'm a Teenager". You can watch it here

Student sw watching this with tears and a lump forming!

Thanks for link lilka

I only have 2nd hand experience, friends who are long term FC, I think people who don't know the reality of neglected dc just can't understand what adopters take on.

My heart breaks that there isn't more intervention when these dc are still young babies and that the court system is just so long winded