Have you ever adopted a child you thought shouldn't have been up for adoption?

[oopsadaisyme]

I'm a total outsider, so I really maybe shouldn't be asking the question, but have always thought about adopting, but I would always like to know how and why, if that makes any sense -

Do you get that information beforehand - ?

Helps the issue I have with that is it then means children end up waiting years I know many parents who have gone on with a new partner to parent sussscefully but usually it's only down to the removal of there first child/children they were able to make the changes nessisary.

They were able to focus on there own needs and not on the needs of there children

It's very difficult to work on ones self while trying to parent

also I think almost every birth parent may have been able to parent given different circumstances and a different partner

I had fostered a child whose parent after 7 years managed to sort the selfs out is now working and married however your not seriously suggesting we kept that mothers new born child in care for shy of eight years while we waited and see if she could make the changes nessisary What if she hadn't that child would of them been nearly 8 lots of foster home moves under there belt and virtually impossible to adopt

Sad as it is most parents cannot effect change hence many adopted children being one for 4,5, or 6. And keeping children after others are removed is not proof that ss were wrong really often

if birth parents have a large number of children ss will remove the youngest thus limiting negative effects the thinking being older children are less dependant on there carer givers

Also just because a mother gets to keep a child years after and they are not removed dose not mean there are no concerns over those children often the children are children in need or at risk.

Support should be given however there is a limit and a fine line between support and doing the job for someone

And also the issue as aways is how long is to long for a child to wait for there parent to come good

If a child is two and you have supported that parent for two years a child has waited half there life ad the issue is there is no certainty that that changes are long lasting ones

That stats on children who have only been in care once are very low indeed often the children coming into care over there life time many times each time the reunification has less chance of working.

You say support but HELS20 many of the family don't want the support and don't even see there is a issue

Sad - I think I might have misinterpreted what you said originally. Sorry. No, it is clear that a child must come first (and legislation makes this clear) and SS can't wait for years
to see if a BM can turn her life round AND keep it turned round.

I do think, though, in some cases (not all) that - given a different partner/circumstances/(maybe BM had suffered an immediate family death which made her go off the rails) the mother can parent successfully.

I haven't read any CPR where I felt that the child shouldn't have been taken - however sympathetic I felt towards the BM. There was one I read where the BPs were v young. They had had a baby (the mother had been in care herself) and they had another 2 child v quickly afterwards . I could see it would be a lot for anyone - let alone one where the parents were barely out of childhood themselves, the mother had been in care, neither grandparents were able to help out, and one of the children had special needs.Things just spiralled. And the children were taken into care (rightly so). But if they had had one child, were a bit older, I think they might have been fine.

I am definitely not suggesting children wait.

Zoo - my heart breaks for you :( That is so very, very sad and I wish things could have been different for you. I hope you keep writing the letters and one day your DD reads them, finds you & you are able to have a relationship with her. There is another poster on MN who has just gone through a similar thing with her DS - she asked and asked for help and didn't get it and has had to give her son up - another heart breaking story.

Helps I do think sw do try and support parents with this HELS

I know the sw workers often try and get mother to buy into contraception
But either get told they don't believe in it or the bm life is simply to chaotic to keep to the appointments that are required or frankly in come cases the bm really believe that there parenting is good and are having another to prove everyone wrong

I don't know how many times a child has been placed with me and buy the time it's gone to court proceedings bm is pregnant yet again and despite sw trying to convince bm having yet more children will effect there ability to cope.
however you are correct I do feel very sympathetic towards my dd tummy mummy and her situation is very sad I don't feel any malice however I do think that depends on how and why your child entered care would I feel the same if my dd was say 7 and had endured years of sexual abuse?

I think sometimes when you ask for help you aren't given it. I know I wasn't despite begging for it n there being concerns for both of our safety. Social services let me down and then asked why I didn't ask for help when I was struggling alone away from my abusive ex. They even used my miscarriages as a sign of me not being a good parent. They argued my eating disorder which I had Been a year recovered from when I fell pregnant with my first and due to my sister kicking me in the stomach with my second.

Chipping I've made contact with the other lady, assuming we mean the same person. I am so so glad to find others.

Sad I've read and re-read what you've written. I said I thought quite clearly that the reason I gave in was because I was told it would reduce the time DD spent waiting and I agree that for that reason all sorts of things should be allowed to be compromised on. I thought at first you were arguing but I think it's just your very forthright style. I think both you and Hels are essentially agreeing, of course the range of children is huge and the experience you all have considerable, but of course different and maybe that's what is different in how you come across.

Havant if I'd planted you, you couldn't have illustrated better how judgemental, supercilious and completely lacking in empathy most people are. I'm learning to deal with it, as I'm now 18 months sober. If I could just have decided, of course I'd never have got sick. I'd never have felt the soul-deep despair that is an alcoholic that wants to stop but can't. I'd have decided that none of that was real, it was just excuses, and will power would have been enough.

When it comes to talking about support, I was referred to SS because I asked my GP for help with my drinking. When I went into Detox, the cost was putting my child into voluntary foster care. I was still at this point working full time in a professional job.
The more social services got involved, the worse my drink problem became. When I gave in, 11 days after the court date confirming I'd given in, I had my last drink. I haven't drunk since then, but the times I have been most tempted have largely been times of involvement with Social Services.

In terms of birth mothers going on to have child after child, that was my professional experience (from a different angle) of babies going into care, and I'm sure you see it often. But a significant minority - 38% - never have another child. That's will be me, not that I wouldn't really, really love to - the longing is biological as well as hugely emotional. But I couldn't risk it. You never can know how things will work out, and though my coping mechanisms and support network are strong now... you just never know.

Zoo, I'm so sorry for all that you have been through.

We are considering adoption, but one of the things that gives me pause is stories like yours. I've also been involved (in a professional capacity) in a wrongful adoption case. The court eventually found in favour of the parents, but only after the adoption had taken place and was established, so the birth parents did not ask at that point for it to be reversed (even though it was illegal) because they knew it would not be in the child's interest (the case took several years to work through the legal system). So that child is with no doubt very loving adoptive parents but should be with her own birth family. It was a tragic case and very painful to see.

Thank you for sharing your story zoo and mistakes I appreciate how difficult it must be to do so here

euro as much as these stories and cases are terribly sad and can be worrying, I honestly wouldn't let them put you off adopting. For the reason that you have the control and can back out of a match any time. You won't have all the information about every aspect of the birth parents involvement with social services, but you should have enough to make you feel that this child definitely needs to be adopted before persuing the match any further. You can hold out until you see a profile where it's very very obvious that this is a child who could never have 'gone home'.

Of course even when your child absolutely needed to be adopted, that doesn't mean that their birth parents don't deserve and need support, empathy and compassion, depending of course on the circumstances. As has been said, things are rarely black and white

zoo - hopefully we do mean the same person, then there isn't yet another person going through this. Don't let arsey stupid people get to you. I can understand why you don't feel you could have another child - it's sad, but understandable, I hope it's something you can come to terms with :( Euro - it is scary - and sad.

Weretogo
Sorry I am just a a bit straight talking

I really wonder sometimes about sw not sure who told you that but the more conditions a child has eg religion, location,contact names the less likely a child will be adopted and the Longer they will wait.

Stupid mistakesi do Agee up to appoint some parents do ask for support before hand however sometimes I not exactly sure if birth parents expectations of what exactly ss can do are alway realistic
And just like the police they are a re active service not a pro active in a ideal world we would have enough money to do both but there is only money for One end

I think a lot of adopters don't realise ss limitations in terms of support either to be fair.

my only issue has been as a foster carer and now adopter is not so much that they have removed children unjustly more that I have often found sw to frighted to lay it on the line for birth parents with them not realising how serious things have gotten I have been in meetings all the while sw using all the jargon and coming away feeling the birth parent has not gotten a clue what's been said and not really given a clear picture of what is expected of them , I my experience with birth parents people appreciate honesty.

However I will say in terms of support often it's true birth parents don't feel there being supported and that it's punitive but ss often often offer support was needed and not what's wanted

For instance a birth mother may want support in terms of child care for her 4 children sw may feel looking at long term conception to stop more children to address the cause of the need for child care.
Two different views to solve the same issue

OMG these posts have thrown me.
Zoo you have broken my heart and have made me wonder whether I am being too hard on our son's birth mother.
He is now 15 we adopted him when he was 5
It was a contested adoption birth mum was a drug addict and her two older children had been removed. Mum fell pregnant and was clean during pregnancy. SS in their wisdom allowed her to take him home. Sadly when he was 8 months old he was found unconscious and mum off her head having had heroine. Our poor child had pneumococcal meningitis. He is deafblind CP epilepsy tube fed.
Mum wants to see him she did not see him even when he was in hospital.
Reading these posts I feel I should perhaps forgive her and make the effort despite the 200mile journey.It will not be for his benefit.
Hope this doesn't upset anyone but don't know what to do.

Havant I have never said this on a post before, but I think your input was really unhelpful and judgemental and completely lacking in empathy. zoo has spoken about her situation with honesty in order to try to help adopters see from the BMs side. And I think her situation is probably one where the the SWs and judges struggle to do their best by everyone. Some BPs get sober/clean and stay clean. Others cope for a few months and then relapse. It is really difficult for the professionals to judge which way any one individual will go. And of course the BPs probably all believe they will be the ones to succeed, but experience tells the professionals that statistically many of them won't.

2old The BM presumably didn't want to be on heroine, though I can see how the long term effect her actions have had on your son may make it hard, it could be good to forgive her. Sorry, I don't understand the implications of his condition. Even though it wouldn't be to his benefit, would it actually be to his detriment to meet his BM? Did you ever meet her yourself? If she is now clean it may help her understand what her actions caused, and maybe if you see that you might in some way be able to feel sorry / forgive her? Do you send photos etc at the moment, if not maybe start that way?

Yes I do send photographs and an update on his health. We do get letters back and she always asks does he like football..
He can't even sit up. I really feel and so does the SW that she has no idea how disabled he is. I am a bit concerned she will find it distressing oh I really don't know.
And no son will not be affected by a meeting he sadly hasn't the ability.I am sad for her plight.

Another way to view this is, should our children's birth parents have been able to turn their lives around and care for our children... In some cases the answer is yes, they should, in others perhaps they had difficulties that cannot be overcome and that mean they can't really parent.

We adopted from overseas but our DS's circumstances were such that he would almost certainly have been adopted had he been born here, but his birth parents could, had they decided to, have changed their lives to enable them to parent him - it does happen though rarely in birth parents like his. It will be hard information to share with him when he's older.

(I should say that my post was made before reading all of zoo's posts. I think it would be easier for us in a way if our DS's birth mum had made any attempt to change her life but she hasn't. But even then it's hard on children to find out that their birth parents were able to parent subsequent children and it can lead them to think they weren't good enough. We've been told to tell him she couldn't look after A baby rather than she couldn't look after him, specifically.

2old2beamum I would never want to cause anyone to feel guilty, it must be a very emotional decision to have to make. You have had to live with many of the consequences of this lady's addiction. But yes, I can see quite easily that she, too, has lived with it and if she is now clean it is not unreasonable of her to ask.

A couple of questions - why do you have to go there? why can't she come (near to) you, I realise there are anonymity issues, but it doesn't like DS can travel terribly easily or comfortably.
Is she clean? Can she be trusted now, in a way that she obviously couldn't then? I just wonder, why now? Is she in a 12 step programme that pushes "making amends"?
Is forgiveness the same as letting her see DS? Can't you have one (for your own emotional benefit) without the other?
Yours must be a hard road and I have great respect for you for walking it.

Have thought long and hard overnight and you have made me think. Maybe my feelings should be directed at Social Services. Why oh why did they leave a new born baby with her?
We love him so much and his situation distresses us so much but oddly enough I do feel some kindness to her but ?can I forgive her.
BTW we have a daughter with complex needs and we see her birth parents on a regular basis and we love them to bits.
I have now decided (thanks to you) that I am prepared to meet her but locally as our lad does not travel well.
Does this sound alright to you?xx

My experience (which is really all I have to offer) is that because children don't have time and therefore Social Services don't have time then "clean" (or sober) is decided over literally a few months. She was clean all pregnancy and then (we assume) for 8 months - 17 months is a success story for Social Services. I am not saying this is right but it does seem to be how it works, driven by the desire to avoid delay. I know when I briefly got DD home, they went on about 8 weeks sobriety - with the caveat of one slip and that's it. And it was indeed it.

As a birth parent I'd bite your hand off at any offer to see my child - I'd go to the other side of the world. 200 miles hardly seems unreasonable, this is about your DS's needs first and foremost.

But it doesn't matter what I think - what you think is really most important. You sound like you are giving something amazing to your children.

Actually 2old2be, I think you are giving her something amazing. Would your son have any understanding of who he was meeting (you say he is deaf, blind, has CP)? If not, then I am not sure you are giving him much, if anything. But you are giving her something amazing. What a brilliant, open minded person you are. And I am so pleased Zoo ventured on to this thread and gave a different perspective. The BM shouldnt have any issue in travelling 200 miles to take you up on an opportunity to see her biological son.

ThanksHeld20No sadly he wouldn't have any understanding, he knows me by my smell (Chanel No 5 rich bitch ) and Pa by his beard,!
zooactually your input is so invaluable to help sort my feelings out. So many thanks to you xxx
But I really feel she must come here with support from SS as our son is the important one to me. Hope I am right.

Apologies, what I wrote at the end of my last post wasn't clear. I meant that your loving parenting of children that most might not consider or cope with is amazing. I don't know if that's one of the things you shouldn't say to adoptive parents, it was meant sincerely.
I didn't mean that letting DS' birth mum see him is something amazing for him and agree with Hels that you are doing something for her there.

(I went to sleep with that on my mind and awoke thinking about it! Hopeless!)