Have you ever adopted a child you thought shouldn't have been up for adoption?

[oopsadaisyme]

I'm a total outsider, so I really maybe shouldn't be asking the question, but have always thought about adopting, but I would always like to know how and why, if that makes any sense -

Do you get that information beforehand - ?

Myfeet sorry my lovely, not meant to be an argumentative post, I know you adoptive parents all do a fantastic job -

Like I said, just a question -

When you get 'linked' to a child, as it's called, you receive a large amount of information, which will include the reasons the child is in care and being placed for adoption, a bit about their birth parents, as well as about the child, their health and development, interests, behaviours, diagnosis, personality etc etc. This may be, after all, YOUR child and you are entitled to get all the relevent information (not that that always happens, in some cases SS have been known to withold details, which is what happened with my DD1)

If you want more information about anything, you ask for it. You can back out at any time, but you need a lot of information in order to decide whether or not you wish to adopt this child or not. And of course, it is your responsibility to tell your child why they were placed in care and adopted.

So my answer to your question would be no, it shouldn't be possible, and you shouldn't go ahead with adopting a child unless you have all the information you need and want and are comfortable with it

Having said this, there are two ways to read your question and therefore 2 answers

1. Could you adopt a child who didn't need to be adopted because they should be with their birth parents/SS stole them from their birth parents? Answer as above

or

2. Has anyone adopted a child and now believes that adoption was not in their childs best interests, probably because their emotional and behavioural issues are so major that their child should have been placed in a residential setting, not placed for adoption in a family environment?

Not me personally, but I've known adoptive parents who would say 'yes' in answer to that question, and I understand. Some children are so badly affected by early abuse/neglect that they end up with difficulties that make it almost impossible or completely impossible for them to function in a family environment. A child who has severe issues and would really struggle with 'family' shouldn't normally be placed for adoption - but social services have made that mistake before, and they will make it again I am certain

Hi,

I can only answer based on my own experience and what my own views were after reading a very detailed report outlining the reasons why our son was taken into care. It was the saddest, most tragic, awful document I have ever read in my whole life, and after reading it, we were absolutely 100% certain that was the right decision for him.

My best friend asked me the exact same question while we were early on in the process, so I do understand why you might be wondering. I think the media like to sensationalise (is that a word?!?) the idea of baby snatching etc.

In theory, do I think it is possible a child is taken into care who shouldn't have been? That social workers made a terrible mistake and all the pointers to abuse/neglect, were, in fact, all innocent? Simply put - yes, I think it is possible - in the same way that I do believe that some people are the result of a terrible miscarriage of justice for a crime they didn't commit.

But do I think my DS shouldn't have been taken into care - or indeed - any of the many other children whose CPRs I read? Absolutely not.

Yes - there are gradations of neglect/abuse - just as there are gradations of murder - someone punching someone, in an alcohol infused fight and they knock their head on the floor and die instantly vs someone who goes out with pre-mediation of killing someone and sets someone alight to die a slow, painful death. But just because some cases are "worse" than others - doesn't mean that the "less worse" (not sure if I am using the right language here) cases shouldn't have the same result.

When I first started on my adoption journey, I had a worry that I would somehow - inadvertently - take on a child who shouldn't have been taken into care and that the parents of the child were experiencing a terrible miscarriage of justice. But having read lots, spoken to social workers, watched some programmes (BBC4 did an amazing 3 part series in 2012 following social workers in Bristol - and I came away thinking that the children weren't taken EARLY enough and the parents had so many chances to stop drug abuse/neglect/alcohol abuse but couldn't manage it) and then finally, after we were approved, read a fair few CPRs, I realised that it must be incredibly rare (if it happened at all) that children were taken into care when they shouldn't have been. I think SWs do an amazing job, a very hard job and I think that if anything, they don't remove children early enough/fail to remove them at all.

So - whilst I think it is theoretically possible - I have not read anything that made me think that any particular child I read about should NOT have been taken into care and put up for adoption. It is not a decision that LAs take lightly - the expense is extraordinary.

My daughter was adopted this year after a 2 year involvement with Social Services. I was 9 months sober before she was placed, stable, and looking for work.

I hope my daughter becomes attached and settled, and grows up with a solid sense of herself, joy in life, and to be kind, caring and thoughtful. I loved her with all my heart, and I was sick, and unable to look after her. The way my family behaved towards me was to scapegoat and judge and blame. I tried to break the cycle of very toxic family dynamics on my own, and I didn't know I would never be able to. I hope that in agreeing for my daughter to be taken to a new family, she will never have to feel like I do, she will have better chances and a healthier way of coping and thinking.

I don't now believe my daughter should have been adopted.
There is an enormous amount of pressure to agree.
There is a documented correlation between contesting the adoption and minimal or no post-adoption contact. (Comes across as do what we say or we'll leave you with nothing).
Foster carers have incredible amounts of power.

I do wonder if her new parents can see that there are many shades of grey and things are not black and white. So far they have refused to meet me or to allow their (my birth daughter) DD to have the court mandated letters from me. I wonder how they feel to read the files that show how well I was by the time they even met her. I wonder if they see that I loved her enough to deny myself what I wanted, which was to fight, to enable DD to have a second chance. That I do still have something to give to DD, in her understanding of what happened. I also wonder if they would rather that things were black and white, that they could tell her how evil and bad her birth mummy was, and so that they can take the roles of rescuers.

I don't know. I can't know. I can try to heal, and to yearn and grieve in newer, healthier ways. I sob because of how broken I feel, living without her. I have no right to hope to see her again, I'll just keep sending letters to be refused and kept on file, and I'll pray that God is bigger than all of this and has my DD in the palm of his hand, and will keep her safe. If she ever does want me, I will be here.

I long to put something back into the system, to help other birth parents, who are not necessarily bad but lost in loneliness and fear. Many of them love their children but maybe can't look after them. I think all must struggle with the system, the court process, and how punitive and persecutory it seems, when it really is seeking to minimise risk, and not make the wrong decision. I would love to be the help I would have needed. There are advocates in divorce cases but no-one can enter a care system courtroom with you.

I've outed myself, and will name change after this. If I'm recognised please respect mine and DD's anonymity (yes, I know she's not "my" DD any more, legally).
To the poster who asked the question, I hope this is in some way a helpful answer.

Wow. What a powerful post, zoo. I do think sometimes, whilst adoption might be right - there are occasionally some circumstances, where if the mother had the right support from her own family, the outcome could be different. My sister had MH issues - and if she had become a mother - I wonder whether social services would have allowed her to keep the baby but she had a v supportive family in me and my parents and my 2 brothers and their wives.

Thank you for sharing your story. You have moved me a lot. It is not always black and white - life rarely is.

And as for what your DD's adoptive parents think - hopefully they are educated enough to realise that - whilst it might have been the right decision - it doesn't make you a bad person. But us adopters are not the ones to make the decision to take a child into care. I do imagine that in 20 years time, my DS (and my DH and I) might all have some sort of relationship with the birth mum. And I did think sometimes - reading CPRs - "there but for the grace of God,
go I" - inasmuch as I can see how events:circumstances spiral out of control.

That's an amazing and very humbling post zoo. All the very best for a better future for you, I think that's it's very likely your dd will seek you out and want to know you one day.

Thanks for sharing zoo. I respect your honesty, I really do.
All the best.

Your post if phrased a bit oddly Oops - "have you ever adopted"... it makes it sounds like we've all adopted loads of times and there might be a few that we regretted (For whatever reason)! And I'm sure that wasn't quite what you meant.

In my case it was easy to see that there was no choice but for DS to be adopted... he was relinquished at birth and his mother made absolutely sure she couldn't be traced. So it was adoption or institutionalisation.

Of all the adoptive children I know (which is quite a few) all of them suffered from significant harm or neglect or an older sibling did so again it wasn't difficult to see that adoption was the only real chance for them to have a "normal" life.

There are cases which are so much more difficult to call and it makes me very glad that I'm not in a position of having to have a professional opinion on it. Zoo's case is one of those - parents with drug or alcohol problems who go through phases of sobriety/withdrawal and should be given a chance to parent competently. Unfortunately the number of parents with significant substance abuse problems who can consistently stay clean/dry are in the minority and I'm not sure there is any way of identifying who can. In the meantime, children have to be looked after now and their childhood is passing by now and they are missing out on important attachments. How far do you give people the benefit of the doubt?

I have no idea and though its a cop out - I;m very glad I don;t have to make that call because there's just no way of knowing whether you are getting it right.

It does concern me how often these marginal decisions happen and how much support is/can be given up front to try to avoid them. But I can think off hand of about 10 adopted children I know and there isn't one that anyone in their right mind would have left with their birth family.

Zoo - adopters are not a homogenous mass and it certainly isn't true that we are marvellous of amazing but it is certainly true that as a group we love and adore our children at least as much as any group of birth parents paretns and will therefore tend to do what we think is in our childrens best interests. It isn't generally considered in the childrens best interests to paint a picture of their birth parents which demonises them. So I think it likely that your DD's adoptive parents are saying that you weren't a bad person but that you were unable to be a parent to her at the right time.

I'm truly sorry for your loss.

May I ask Zoo why you think Foster Carers have a lot of power?

I am doing a worthwhile job for the local authority, and follow their rules, regs and guidelines. I have no power, I report to them. They are essentially my employers. I have no say in what happens to the little ones that I care for.

What a very brave post zoo. I can't imagine how hard it is for you.

Thank you, Zoo, and bless you. It was very humbling to read your post.

OP, I expect I'm fairly typical of adoptive parents in being very aware of the possibility of children being taken into care unfairly. Although we do get lots of detail on the children we adopt - and a fair bit on the children we are longlisted to adopt - that information is of course written by a social worker so it is never the full picture.

Most of the profiles I have read -possibly all - involved generations of family dysfunction. I am sure that sustained and effective external intervention may have made a difference, but it's hard to see where and when. There was one profile I read - a child we were in the running to adopt - which upset me greatly; a very young mother who herself lived in care homes and had been terribly failed by the system again and again throughout her short life. I did wonder - still do - if she could not have been supported to stay with her baby. But I haven't met her, I didn't assess her, so I'll never know. Incidentally, we were in the end ruled out from adopting her because they acceded to her request that her dd should be an only child. I guess she had never enjoyed the luxury of full-on parental love and support and assumed her child could not get any benefit from having to share that.

In the case of my own adopted dd, I am as sure as I can be that she should have been adopted. Quite simply, I know what happened to other children who stayed within the family, and it is not pretty. It is not unusual to have this kind of evidence.

Thank you for sharing that zoo. What I find saddest of all is that you can know that you are "not well" due to family dynamics or a non-functioning childhood family life and try and seek help and it just isn't out there.

There but for the grace of God go I and my eldest, my heart breaks for how much I let down because I just didn't have the skills I really needed to be a great Mum to her.

Oh and Zoo, I'll back up Kew's point about adoptive parents badmouthing birth parents. Of course, once you're a parent you can do pretty much what you like, and I'm sure there's a fair few rubbish adoptive parents out there, but these days the statutory preparation for adoption emphasises giving children full information (in an age appropriate way) and absolutely not demonising the birth parents. It's a tricky one to get right: if you demonise birth parents it is horrible for the child to hear (and can get internalised as self-hatred) but you can't softsoap them either (or they won't be able to understand why they had to be adopted).

There is also a lot of emphasis on keeping up with contact agreements. Personally, I would have loved to have met my dd's birth mother, who also wanted to but she didn't keep the appointments (I understand why; it must have felt like torture to her). I write every year, as agreed, but have never heard back. Again, I understand, though it hurts me for dd who may struggle to understand why this is. According to my adoption agency, the letterbox office has filing cabinets full of contact letters from adoptive parents, and one drawer with letters from birth parents. So I feel very sorry that you are being stonewalled but it's possibly not typical - again, for reasons we can all understand.

Although it can sometimes be hard not to feel angry with people who have abused or neglected our much-loved children, and this is usually true of birth parents who have had their kids taken away from them, we wouldn't be up to much as adoptive parents if we couldn't also feel sympathy and ambivalence and awareness that adoption comes out of a morass of pain and loss and trauma.

I'd really like to thank you all for the encouragement and kindness shown. I am sorry if I came across angrily - it's the fact that DD's adoptive parents seem to be treating me in an adversarial way. And I knew about the adoption prep attitudes and that the vast majority of adopters would be as you have said and it is breaking my heart that DD is with people who would agree to all that in the pre-adoption meetings and then turn around and go against it.

Devora "it's possibly not typical" you have really reassured me - with most of the others - that I need to keep pushing for what is typical, that, "there but for the grace of God go I" attitude.

Kew the "now" part of your post is why, ultimately, I gave up. She needed stability now (well, then). But, it took them almost a year - in which time I was 9 months sober and had completely overhauled my life and it was too late. It makes no sense - they say it's a case by case basis, except then the goalposts move and you cease to be the "case" in question, it's some other case though you are never told what.

panadbois well, on paper, I'm sure that's the case, I can only speak from my own experience. Maybe a couple of egs will illustrate... I asked for DD to be placed within my (and her) faith community. After I'd been kept away from DD with decreasing contact (appropriately given I was prepared to give in and agree to the adoption order) the Foster Carer was asked if they thought "religion was important to DD". The Foster Carer's report that DD did not mention "religion" (hate that word, would not say we were religious at all, but a faith) apart from at bedtime when they read. This at 4 years old! Show me a 4 year old that has a comprehensive understanding of their parents faith! So the guardian told the court that the Foster Carer said that DD wasn't interested in religion so DD was placed with people who have no interest. (I realise that the most recent Adoption Act removes the clause that says children MUST be placed with a family of the same faith but I believe it says that is the aim, and that if not possible a family who will support the child's heritage and provide continuity.

Secondly when I discussed final contact with the social worker, the FC had said that DD didn't mention me any more, and in her opinion didn't need any more contact with me. SS and the court took her opinion as fact. That, to me, is power.
I know that FCs do a wonderful job, and DD's FC did an awful lot of good, but had strong opinions about me not fighting to the bitter end for DD, and her opinions really held sway. I think really without good foster care many children would suffer much more than they do and you are very strong to be able to do it.

Thank you, Zoo, for your contribution. And I can see, now, why you say that FCs have a lot of power. Maybe that was a failing on the part of the social services/social worker. I know, in our case, the SW took the faith/background of birth parents seriously and their requests seriously. There is a wide spectrum of SWs and FCs, too. Some people are luckier in who they end up dealing with. It shouldn't be like that at all but it is.

I felt tremendous sympathy for my DS's BM (less so for the BF…) and if my DS at 18 (or later) wants to get in contact with his BM, DH and I will be fully supportive.

I can't imagine what our BM is going through/what she has been through. And I do think that perhaps if she had had more support (from BF and her own family), things might have worked out differently.

It was very important for me to know that BM loved my DS - if I hadn't felt she had (and sometimes, BM's don't really show that they loved their child), then I would have struggled to adopt DS (this was just my view).

I think a fair few adopters have compassion for the birth mother. I hope that you do send your letters so that your DD knows you always thought of her and loved her. Your post has made me very sad and I doubt there is much any of us can say to you to make it easier. But please contribute to the board if you think you have something to add - it is always good to have different perspectives.

Sorry zoo but I have to say as a foster carer and adopter

That if they attach to much weight to religion your child would have simply waited longer for permanence whilst I think in a ideal world it would be nice for birth parents to have there say in these matter they have to weighed agasithow much longer a child would wait for a family because of it

For instance Asian children who are up fro adoption tend to be paskastini-Muslim However Asian adopters tend to be sheikh and I think keeping a child in care for the foreseeable future to satisfy the brith parents which of holding out for adopters of the same religion is not really on especially when this should be about the child

Also often of a child has been in foster carer from very small of birth despite the birth parents being devout ........the children are not living with them so are being brought up with out any religion or the religion of the foster carer

In terms of weather a child should be adopted or not and weather ss got it wrong sadly in my 7 years as a foster carer I only ever had placements were I thought that the mistake was reunification with birth parents.

In a ideal world there would be no need for adopters or foster carers however the level of support some families need in order to parent successfully is just to high

One of my charges who went on to be adopted had a mother with speical needs

She loved child dearly but could not meet there needs child would be out all hours, not having the correct clothing she couldn't budget , she couldn't read which became a safety issue when dealing with a young child

Support was given but it become apparent that it would take ss installing a support worker 24 hours a day 7 days a week which is just not feasible

I think as sad as it it we do as a society have to accept that some people either can't or won't ever be able to parent (very sad fact to have to contemplate )

It won't matter how well funded, run any system is there are just some parents who are not able

Devora - I also think ss have to balance any amount of contact possibly stopping a child to become adopted I know when we were looking some children had simply unmanageable amounts of contact which meant it would be likely they would not be adopted.

I think adopters want to adopt they don't want to feel like long term foster carers

One poor child we saw had upwards of 6 different contacts with various aunts grandparents , birth parents and even a step parent

So because you had finally decided to get sober they were supposed to give you another chance? You said SS were involved for 2 years and you were sober for 9 months.

Sorry, I have to disagree Sad.
I think sometimes BMs can't be mothers then, but it doesn't necessarily mean never. Sometimes a child is born to a mother who just doesn't have the infrastructure to cope at that time (maybe she was too young, had toxic, unhelpful parents who didn't care but 5 or 10 years later, she is in a better relationship with supportive in-laws. (I do appreciate, though, there are some BM's who will never be able to parent.)

All of us can make mistakes. It doesn't mean that the decision to take a child into care was wrong, for that child, or that the child shouldn't be adopted.

There was certainly one CPR I read where I felt the BM might successfully parent with another partner and in different circumstances.

And I am also thinking of the Panorama "The Truth about Adoption" (now available on YouTube) where one BM lost her first child but 4 years later was able to keep her second child (with a different, non-abusive and supportive partner).