Seeking attention??

[Buster51]

Merry Christmas all, I hope you've all had a lovely time.

As some of you have kindly replied to me (4 year old DS 8 weeks into placement) I thought I would voice my current concerns.

On my previous thread I mention my DH has returned from the forces for Xmas leave & DS (seemed) to be starch to his hip, which we ended up leaving down to excitement/"normal" behaviour...

We have however attempted to address his sudden complete act oh bring unconfortable with mummy (which he certainly is not when he is not around?) by saying things like "it is ok to be nice to mummy too" etc when he has chosen to ignore me completely/not 'cuddle' how he normally does (& I must say overly asks for when DH is not around).

However, we realised that we should not mention such things at all when he is choosing to do such things & to not rise to it (it has been suggested he may actually be feeling a sense of power through knowing mummy "wants it").

As a result we have risen above it & it has begun to get worse. Yesterday he actually cried when I gave him a cuddle & kiss & pretended he was hurt (not the 1st time), I then turned it into a tickle joke & within minuets he was wanting to be on my back.

Later when I was not sat near him he then went to DH, directly looking at me (again not the 1st time) to cling to his neck saying I love you daddy. Again I just smiled & we did not say anything at all. DH popped upstairs DS said 'where is daddy' I said oh just busy for 5 mins, he said "mummy I've hurt my head" I said "oh no how have you done that?" & said would you like a cuddle? He said no I gave him a kiss & cuddle he said stop! I again just made it "jokey" & said off you go (I must add he 'pretended to hurt his head last week & refused to come near me, & shamefully I responded with its ok to come to mummy when you are hurt etc).

He then said "mummy I have a joke/secret for you, and whispered (viciously!) "I love daddy not mummy", again I just replied with that's nice you must tell daddy your joke when he comes back.

Since we've been given advice that he was actually enjoying the fact "mummy craved his love" effectively (I feel very bad for dealing with it in that way in hindsight but I am very new to this, we both didn't realise), we have not risen to it, but his attempts are getting worse & we don't want it to get out of hand, I realise this may seem of little importance but as I say any advice is much appreciated.

It seems to me it is a case of him wanting all of my attention either good or bad?? But him seeing that it upsets mummy seems to sadly be a reaction that he wants to continue to receive?

I must add it is hard to stay positive & continue to be playful etc but this is something I believe I am managing quite well, have any of you mums experienced behaviour like this?/have any advice on how to deal with it in the correct way?

Thank you

Oh & apologies for the grammar / spelling it is early :-)

Firstly I have no experience with adoption and the many issues you will be facing, but I didn't want to let your thread go unanswered. If it is any consolation I have a DS(4) who often does similar. Depending on who it is he wants something from he will say he doesn't like the other parent or he makes a point of saying in front of the parent he is angry with how much he loves the other parent. The way I look at it, they have so little power at that age they try to use everything in their arsenal. We just ignore it where possible and tell him that it doesn't matter as we love him anyway.

Sorry I must also add he doesn't seem to like it when DH & I are close & will make several attempts to distract one of us.

I initially thought all of the above was because he didn't trust me/loyalties were with FC so he wasn't comfortable.

However it is really only the thing we have stated "it's ok to do that with mummy to" (along those lines) he tries to get a reaction from. He actually came into bed with us for the 1st time last week & snuggled right into me, so he must like it?!

One confused mummy.

Thanks again

Thank you for your reply. Oh it's reassuring to here it can be typical behaviour. Yes I continued about the evening as usual bathing him/reading to him etc.

I just wish id realised this sooner instead of putting so much focus on it, I feel I may have made it worse!

Lots of 4 yr olds do this. Try to relax and not over think it.

Ok great thank you :)

It is absolutely typical behaviour for any 4 year old (and younger) and older.
The adoption and the army thing is definately going to be playing a role. IMO its all about security and attention.
They see if they can push the boundaries, those boundaries have changed dramatically with the adoption, and the DH appearing.

He is doing this to you most as he has seen a reaction (always interesting for any child) also he feels most secure with you (so therefore pushes you away to check that you will still be there, doesn't do it with DH as he isn't as certain he will be there and because possibly because of the adoption he expects people to leave) also he may view your and Dhs relationship as a bit of a threat to yours and his relationship. He might be jealous/scared and take this out on you.

All normal but just act like you are very uninterested, don't make any asides/faces/or tbh any sort of acknowledgement of it and he will soon realise that things remain the same so he might s well get cuddles form you both.

It is a bit hurtful but all 3 have done it with me and it soon passes if you ignore it!

Thank you, so interesting you say it is because he feels most secure with me, I have been forever thinking he goes to him because he feels safer there! & havent looked at it like that before.

We are actually taking it as a positive that he is coming out of his shell a lot more, he was very 'regimented' (not sure if that is the right word!) before, but is slowly becoming louder, little cheekier & pushing boundaries so fingers crossed it is all good progress that he is feeling more at home.

Buster we are not yet adopters but our birth child did this when about 3. She actually told me she wanted me to move out so it could just be her and daddy!

I was very, very hurt but said 'No, i can;t move out this is my house too. I just carried on as normal. She grew out of it and over the years has said other stuff like she loves me more. I just say she does not need to love either of us more than the other, we all love each other.

We have been through the adoption prep and parenting course and you may find by researching a bit on the internet that this type of thing is more common with children who have joined the family by adoption.

Personally, I would make sure there are opportunities to talk, him and Dh, you and him, and just see if he wants to talk about anything, don't lead or suggest, just ask 'anything you want to tell me or talk about.' this may be best while doing an activity that needs concentration, like craft or laying toy train track. He might use it as a time to say how he feels or nothing at all. Try and just listen and not jolly him out of any negative things but give him a really loving side to thing, by this I mean don't negate his feelings if he feels sad or whatever but do say how much you both love him etc. Just my humble opinion and it is just an idea, but don't do it when something happens like him being negative to you.

I am sure you are doing a great job.

I wonder if you have any resource for army families as this may be an issue for other army families too.

Not wanting you and your husband to kiss or hug next to him could be to do with adoption, to be with not being left out or just could be that he is not used to seeing it. Personally, I think many kids find that embarrassing (I think) or just funny.

My DD has been home since mid-September, and turned 5 10 days into placement, so similar age to your DS. At first she would consistently reject me when there were other adults around (I am a single parent), for example would give hugs and kisses to the grandparents when she had at that stage never kissed me - on one occasion she was hugging my dad and said 'I will never kiss mummy'! I sure if we had another parent here, she'd have behaved much as your DS is now. I am only posting to say, this has massively massively improved with time. She is still especially fond of her grandma in particular, but we quickly instituted turn taking between her and DS when grandma is concerned, e.g. who's turn is it to have grandma brush their hair etc, she initially was very resistant to this but now will ask whose turn it is and accept the answer without complaint. I think this let her know that it's okay to want grandma and she will get grandma some of the time, but the adults are in charge of this, if that makes sense?

I haven't got anything really helpful to add, but just wanted to say, it will get better, and also please don't beat yourself up or feel like you've handled it wrong, we're all doing our best. When DD was being really rejecting I also have DS who had always clearly bonded most closely with me (although he is very fond of his grandparents too), so I had his affection which helped me feel less crap about it all. It is very very hard to have your longed-for child pushing you away like this and it must be more so when he is an only. I think it is right to say that he is doing this because he feels safest to try it out on you, which is a compliment, but it's hard to feel like that when you're living it! All the best.

It could also be testing to see whether you reject him when he rejects you. When DD (bc) says something like this to me or dh we just say 'that's OK baby - sometimes we feel a bit differently about people, sometimes we're angry with someone, sometimes we might not want to talk to them for a while, but however you feel daddy and I love you always'

We have adopted 8 children and have been FPs for over 38 years , from experience Mum's seem too take most of the flack result of past rejections , will take time for child too gain confidence, and they will try you out, Dads become favourable but in time as child becomes more secure and confident relationship will even out. Best be understandable
not let issues upset you they will pick this up. Most children seem too
hit it off with my DH but DH is aware and will make appropriate distractions too even things out, this works very well.

I can't comment on the adoption side but this is very normal behaviour. honestly, just try not to focus on it because they ALL do this stuff. give it short shrift in a kindly fashion, don't pander to it and remember everything's a phase!

Good morning all,

thank you all very much for your comments, I really really appreciate it. I am so pleased this is usual child behavior - I feel a bit of a novice at this parenting lark sometimes so it is so nice to have a site like this to come on!

The main message I am getting from you all is to ignore, not rise and carry on as normal as he is possibly doing it for several different reasons, that makes perfect sense so thank you.

My question is however how?! I know this seems a crazy question to ask but (I am ashamed to admit really) I do feel so hurt by all of this I do struggle to keep it normal! We tried originally addressing it when it happened (advice from previous FC). But of late we have ignored it, hence it getting worse, but as I keep getting knocked back I REALLY struggle to pull myself together! I am improving but I have no doubt he is still probably picking up on that.

Do any of you have any real examples of what you did to 'brush this off' i.e. tactics etc?? I have tried sitting with him just us and asking if there was anything he would like to talk about as suggested to his reply 'like daddy??' so I just said of course like daddy etc. So anything at all that may help us to 'get back on track' effectively and work through this phase would be great. I am sorry if this all seems so obvious to most but any help would be fantastic. What I don't want to end up doing is ignoring him completely through fear of 'me' being hurt!?!

My DD was younger when placed but rejected my DH and BS to the extreme
6 weeks into placement she was stuck to my side like a limpet
Once she could talk she would ask DH and DS to live somewhere else
It took a long time
We let this happen, I gave her the love and closeness she craved and never rejected her, it was so intense I felt like running away sometimes
DH did lots of fun stuff. He took her swimming which was good for closeness
He took her to but any new things she needed, shoes, clothes etc
He didn't ever prevent her from getting to me
The greatest improvement in their relationship came from filial therapy which we were taught at CAMHS
There are other similar things you could do, there is a version of filial called 'floor play' or similar or you could try theraplay activities
These would be short, structured activities designed to promote closeness
If you want more info let me know
If you are a member of AUK you can borrow the theraplay book from them. Its massive, I have read it, but IMO the most useful part is the activity section at the back which you could photocopy
We found it useful to structure sessions into our week
I have a copy of theraplay activities somewhere if you can't get hold of them
Also on AUK Peartree did a fantastic post of 'what to do in the first year of placement'. The old AUK boards have gone but in you contact her on the new boards I am sure she will send them to you. They are very theraplay like

I think ignoring the behaviour is not the same as ignoring the child, you can still do fun things with him and schedule in fun things for DH to do and be loving.

It almost sounds like the hardest bit for you is to not allow this negative behaviour to affect you. Please try and remain calm and confident. This is Not a rejection of the real you or the real parenting skills you have or of the real DH or of his parenting skills. Any rejection of either parent is simply your little one trying to make sense of the world, trying to exert some control over the world. Try and give him areas he can be in control of, whatever is appropriate, good food choices, changing some things in his room, what to play, where to go etc. This might, IMHO, help. Try not to allow this to dent your confidence or your sense that you can do this, I am sure you can. Time will pass and I hope it will get better but do follow Roadwalkers excellent advice and get help along the way.

This is IMHO as a not yet adoptive parent but as a birth parent whose little one asked her to move out so she could live with daddy when she was about 3!

Buster good luck, I've got nothing to add because I think Roadwalker has given excellent advice.

thank you Roadwalkers for the advice the books and therapies you talk about are all things I have never heard of, so I will definitely look into those. If I need any further advice I will be sure to get in touch :)

Italiangreyhound with that in mind today I took him out to softplay, without DH for some time together but not 'too close' which he enjoyed, since coming back DH is busy with other things and he has become very 'animated' trying to get all of my attention, broad statements like MUMMY IS THE BEST etc?! confused mummy again!

However hopefully a step in the right direction...who knows... As I say when DH is not here he wants nothing more than to be around me, sitting on me, playing with me constantly, so perhaps ignoring his attempts to seek attention though 'bad'? means will work.

I must admit I (still) do find it hard not to take it personally, but I am getting there with the realisation of what is actually going on and the reaction he is craving.

Buster fab news.

I have no idea what his life before was life but maybe you do and that may give clues as to why he feels the need to be devoted to one or other, Maybe he has not had two parental figures before so does not know how to handle it. Or maybe people in his wider circle of family played one off against another,

Just remember he said "MUMMY IS THE BEST" remember it and treasure it, and most of all believe it!

I wasn't asking for you to tell me just for you to know for yourself if that had led into the reasons for your little one's behaviour.

As I said before my little one is a birth child but she went through a phase of not wanting me when aged 3 and now we are very close. There is sometimes no reason for these things.

I will pm you.

Ok thanks :)

Well he chose to sit near me for bedtime hour tonight (which he normally only does when DH isn't home) & is back to his usual self singing in bed - which he hasn't done in the weeks he's been home!

All very strange! But hopefully positive :-D can't thank you all enough for the tips & advice as fingers crossed it may have helped :)

Yipee! well done buster. Remember, parenting is like the Alps! Ups and downs. Enjoy the view when you can.

I like the Alps thing. :)

I think you also need to remember that just because what you're doing is helpful or 'right' doesn't mean it will work straight away. Do your reading on attachment, get support here and IRL and then have confidence that things will have impact over time. That's not to say you shouldn't reflect all the time but just don't think things will work overnight. (that's not a message from experience as an adopter but as a,parent and as someone who had worked with vulnerable children professionally.)

Think that might be what Italian just said :)

Oh yes of course I realise that, there's been up & down, up & down days since day one. It still however provides that little bit of hope when you have a more positive day :)

Tomorrow is another day to deal with as it comes :)

Thanks names I just made the Alps thing up! It is based on what Joyce in Kindergarden cop says 'You know, kindergarten is like the ocean. You don't want to turn your back on it.'

www.imdb.com/title/tt0099938/quotes

Yes, Buster it can be a lot of ups and downs. My birth DD can be a handful and at times you think why are they being like this today! I am not an 'adoptive parent' yet, but we have done the adoption training and are still waiting for a match.

I am very aware that birth children and children who join a family by adoption sometimes can be quite different and lots of things like past history need to be taken into account when looking at behaviour. However, even with birth children there can often be real reasons for the difficult behaviour.

My favourite 'help' image from the parenting course we did as part of adoption training was 'the fountain'. When you get unusual or difficult behaviour then there are techniques, like the 'fountain' picture to help remind parents how to 'deal' with that behaviour. Do you know that image from your training or elsewhere?

The idea is the fountain has splashes of water going all over the place, which are the child's difficult 'behaviour', but this is driven by the main upward shoot of the fountain, and that is the 'feelings' of the child, and this is taken from the base bit of the fountain which is the 'needs' of the child. So if we can meet those needs, that will change the child's feelings and then the child's behaviour. So that is where we look beyond the behaviour at where it comes from. I think with a lot of kids there is meaning behind the behaviour and we need to find it and work out how best to help them.

Good luck.