that DD2 and DS come out with. I am not happy with all these arguments peppered with 'you're a stupid #ing idiot'
'no YOU are'
'No I'm not #head'
'MUUUUM she called me a #head',
'No I did not Mum! He's lying to you, he's a stupid lying #head' 
'I hate you, you #'
and so on ad infinitum until I intervene
DD2 has an entire phrasebook of rude phrases she uses when she gets angry and I've had a good 8 years of completely failing to stop her using them. DS is picking up all her lovely phrases and trying them out himself. He doesn't swear at me like she does (he hates it when I get upset about something he did), but he thinks he can swear straight back at his sister if I'm not in the room (if I'm not in the room, evidently I can't hear whats going on )
This morning they started up again, and I came into the room just in time to hear DS use a really nasty word at DD2 who started running away as soon as she saw me.
I feel really bad because he shouldn't know these words, and nothing I do has actually made a real difference to DD2 using them which is how he knows them. And I feel like I'm partly to blame because I can't stop her.
I got really angry and didn't even think about what I should do, and just started semi-shouting :( at DS to stop using horrible words or else I'll take away x, y and z and be really angry, and that he just told his sister that she was having sex with me, and that was a really horrible thing to suggest, and does he think that DD and I have had sex with each other? Etc etc. Which resulted in both of us crying and him embarassed. And DD2 out the front door to the local park, completely escaping the shouting, and I know she started it so that was really unfair on DS.
I really hope that now he knows what x means he won't ever say it again, but need a better way to address this with DS which doesn't involve shouting and upsetting him. Any ideas? I've thought of docking pocket money by fining him for every rude word, which might work, or maybe I should just say that if he's so annoyed he feels the need to swear then he needs a time in with me doing some mundane chore to calm down, or is there some other good way any of you have to handle this??
From a very fed up and un-happy Lilka
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Fed up of the *ing and #ing!
Lilka · 05/08/2013 17:16
Sorry have just seen this ( busy week)
Have no experience of this, but I particularly like your idea of explaining to him what all the words mean. I have this vision of you with a flip chart and marker listing all these words then drawing him diagrams where appropriate . I'd like to think that next time he wants to call someone a cunt, an image of his mothers carefully labelled biological diagram will pop into his mind and somehow it won't seem very cool anymore.
You are doing him a favour. No one should use words they don't know the meaning of, they can end up looking really stupid 
I did manage to put Dd2 ( aged about 11) off " snogging" for about 2 years with a detailed explanation of French kissing, there was a lot of talk of saliva and germs as I recall ....
Swear jar sounds good! Hmm, ideas for money. Something to improve vocabulary like some new books so he can learn new words to use instead? Something boring like school stuff? Donating to charity? Make a tally about who pays in what when and at the end of the week whoever has paid in the least gets to keep the lot? (Or have a threshold - say whoever pays in less than £2.50 gets to split the proceeds, and then slowly bring this down to 0 so there's a motivation to avoid swearing instead of just a disincentive for doing it)
As for D I think yes it is useful for him to have a strategy for when she is winding him up but it's ok to feel angry. Anger isn't destructive on its own, it's really just saying "I'm not okay with this situation which is out of my control" - the problem is if he's trying to then change the situation (ie change her mind about whatever she's winding him up about) but she's winding him up so doesn't have any chance of coming around to his point of view he's getting more and more frustrated and desperate and that's when he will lash out and possibly feel out of control.
So perhaps a talk about how feeling angry isn't necessarily a bad thing but getting up in someone's face and shouting or otherwise being aggressive isn't a very good way to make them see your point of view. Try to get him to think of a situation where someone has shouted at him and whether it made him feel more or less likely to agree with that person. Then you can move on to good ways to change a situation which is out of your control - and how to deal with it/cope if you can't change it. Sometimes something like writing a letter or thinking of a calm composed argument (and listening to the other person) helps, even if it doesn't change things completely. Other times it can be useful to walk away and think "Can I actually change X's mind?" and if not, it can help to talk to somebody else, write a letter to them but not send it, or just let it go because actually it doesn't matter.
I don't know if this helps 
I would imagine that adopted children whatever their background might have good cause to feel angry about things that they can't change and, additionally, if they have witnessed abuse then anger might feel like a really frightening thing that can change people and take them over - it's not the anger itself, it's the desperation at trying to get someone else to hear your anger when they either can't (because you're not expressing it well, or because they're not around) or won't (because they just don't want to). Change that goal or the way of achieving that goal and the anger itself isn't a problem, although the problem of course is slipping into the "Nobody is listening to me!" frustration and that will take work and practice to avoid.
pinkchoccy when you said He is always very upset and sad after but cant control himself at the time that also is a pretty good description of DD2. She can talk things over with me and be very calm and seem to take everything in, until she gets really wound up and loses control and at that point everything we did when she was calm goes out of the window. When she sees red all her cause-effect thinking and ability to reason just shut down. She can also dissociate when she gets 'triggered' which makes everything much harder (and renders everything I do when she's calm useless anyway) especially if she has amnesia afterwards.
I would not listen to your family telling you your gs is just naughty if your gut tells you something more is going on - you are probably right. Normally, all the things you've tried would work, and if they aren't then that's a good indicator that you should investigate. Really hope the community paed is helpful for you
Yoni A dictionary is a great idea. I also like the idea of having a laugh about stupid insults. Could use the dictionary for that :) I'll think also about being able to earn the money back and whether that would work.
You are right, it's fine for him to feel angry. What I really meant was I need to get him to walk away before he actually loses control and stops thinking about what he's doing. That way lies a verbal/physical argument with an opponent who will always always win. Problem is DD is also a manipulative master of button-pushing and getting people to give her the reaction she wants, so getting DS to not reach tipping point is easier said than done.
Kristina I wasn't originally planning on a diagram but hmmmmm. You are right, I AM doing him a favour.
Glad to hear about your DD....why isn't 'a nun' a fashionable life option these days?! None of this 'mum I need new expensive xyz', and guarunteed no-french-kissing-ever 
That reminded me forcefully of when he was around his 3rd birthday, and I told him that ladies have a vulva and vagina and men have a penis and testicles, and he thinks about it and goes 'Girls have a vagina?'. 'Yes that's right'.... and he points at my trousers and goes 'Mummy, show me!' ! "What?!" 'Mummy show me your vagina!'
I persuaded him that a diagram in a book was enough
Thanks everyone :)
DS and I had our 'swear words' talk today
He was a bit apprehensive at the idea of discussing swear words with me, therefore the first rude word he threw at me was 'bum' Testing the waters there!!
But we did get through a list of everything he could think of, and as I hoped, he is indeed horrified to hear the meaning of 'cunt' (and embarassed at the idea that you can go around calling someone a vagina!!) as well as 'fuck' and 'dickhead' and a few other lovely gems
I think I will not have to worry about him saying those again for a while!
I also told both of them about the swear jar, starting from next weeks pocket money. DD2 huffed and rolled her eyes but this evening is suddenly happy to try (and being extremely nice in general which is lovely!). DS insisted I will not need to fine him because he is definitely NOT using any more horrible bodily-function-related phrases ever So he agreed to do it
So good so far
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