adopting from a developing country??

[sabby6642]

does anyone have experience with adopting from somewhere in the less-developed part of the world? Thinking of trying to adopt a girl who has been abandoned in a country where girls are not seen as useful like boys. I am from an ethnic background that could be matched - DH is white British. Experience? Thoughts? How do you do it? It seems there are so many children in need of a real home - I'm done with pregnancies and only have boys!

sabby I am sure you have only good intentions, but this kind of thing creates an baby selling industry in developing countries.

*a baby selling

Others will have more details (and more relevant experience), but basically you need to be approved by a UK agency in pretty much the same way as if you were intending to adopt within the UK. And not all countries allow children to be adopted permanently outside their borders, so if you have a country in mind, you'll need to check the relevant position.

probably unintentional but your post reads dreadfully
like your choosing accessories.
so done with boys.yes lets get a girl

Families is right - you are assessed and approved as adoptive parents by UK social services or a voluntary agency, then your papers are sent out to the country you adopt from. You have to meet the requirements of both the UK and your chosen country. The 'sending country' may well have stricter requirements than the UK, for instance an upper age limit, or very strict health requirements. However this information should not be very difficult to find to find, so you can check which countries you can and can't adopt from

It's a common misconception that there are much higher numbers of girls than boys, waiting to be adopted in all developing countries. There are girls, but the reality is that there are only a couple of countries (China, India...can't think of anywhere else) where the number of girls waiting far exceed the number of boys waiting. China is not an option for people in the UK right now, and I believe India is very difficult to adopt from, a little easier if you are Indian yourself. In pretty much all other countries, the children who wait are boys. Adopting couples overwhelmingly prefer girls, when they select a gender. This results in long wait times to get a girl and few available girls, while the little boys wait and wait...

So I think honestly that whilst you can adopt girls from abroad, you may well wait longer if you only want a girl. I think there are a couple of countries that forbid gender selection as well?

Which countries were you thinking of?

I don't think your post was intentionally meant to ruffle the feathers it has ruffled :) and I can understand your desire for a daughter.

China has a huge wait time now - 5-6 years is becoming the norm. India of course has many girls being abandoned. The former communist block countries have many children available but some operate quite limited lists for international adoption (this has nothing to do with lack of children needing homes but a desire to make it look as if they do not have problems, which they do!). There are plenty of children in need of families and few folk in-country adopting. Sadly that is a reflection of their 'undesirable' ethnic status in this country. My point is that every country has unique issues, social circumstances, political games etc. going on that adoption can put you in the middle of. You need to research it all carefully. Some countries, such as Vietnam and many S. American countries, have huge ethical issues which make pursuing adoption there very questionable. One day you want to be able to look your adopted child in the eye and tell her that she came into your family for the 'right' reasons, not because she was stolen or purchased from her birth mother!

If you wish to pursue an international adoption the first thing you need to do is identify a country which is a good fit for you and your family. internationaladoption.org (or .com?) is a good starting point as they have a lot of country specific information and good forums. Be aware it is from a US perspective in terms of procedures etc. Despite this it is a very good starting point as there is not much on international adoption from a British perspective.

What you also need to strongly research and consider are the potential issues a child adopted from a developing country may have, particularly a country which operates a large orphanage system as attachment disorders are very tought to tackle and can impact on your other children quite significantly.

I was hoping to gather some ideas and experiences rather than have people sit in judgement - so thank you to those that have tried to empathise with the desire for a daughter and provide advice. Having fifteen years experience of fostering and parented five boys of my own, I think I can justify that desire to myself quite comfortably. Perhaps it is dangerous to judge somebody from a short post?!!!

There's a humanitarian angle to offering appropriate homes to children that need them - that's not baby-selling. I am Indian so it would be India.

Sabby, it's interesting (and true) that when the psychologist I worked with during my preparation period (Hague compliant regulations) asked me why I wanted to adopt and I told him it was partly selfish (I want a child even though I am single) and partly 'humantiarian' (I think adoption is a good thing as it gives children families who will otherwise languish in horrendous orphanages).

He told me that he actually thought coming that it from this point of view (selfish plus humanitarian) was the best mindset. He explained it that if you only do it because you want a child then you can be blind to (or unaccepting of) the problems that they may have (particularly related to attachment and development) which can make you ill prepared to parent an adopted child. On the other hand if you 'only' desire to 'rescue' a child you will never truly be their parent. However if you approach it from both perspectives then it suggests you both want to be a parent and also understand how important family is to a child's emotional and physical development and, because you have understood that the orphanages are so damaging, you are probably better informed about the potential problems. (I hope my less than lucid explanation makes sense?)

I thought it was an interesting perspective. The first time I thought about adoption was after watching a program about an Indian boy who had been horrifically injured by a train. He was a street child with no-one to care for him, and I thought 'why does no one adopt him'. The second thought was 'I could adopt'. Then I thought on the dreadful documentary about Chinese orphanages 'The Dying Rooms' and I researched Chinese adoption (before they closed to singles). It was very apparent to me that adoption can literally be a life saver for children. We may get uncomfortable putting that fact out there because, as adoptive parents, we know that we are the 'lucky' ones as our children are so incredible and wonderful and we love them so, so much. We don't like being told we 'saved' them or having people say they are 'lucky' with that suggestion they need to be grateful to us. After all how lucky are our children? Abandoned or abused? Left to wither in orphanages with little care or attention? So we sometimes bristle a little at any suggestion that there can or should be any motivation for adoption other than love and the desire to parent a child. Personally however I really see nothing wrong with saying that you also want to adopt because you know it is a good thing to do.

Best of luck.

I would contact both OASIS and the IAC - both can give you advice about adopting from abroad in general, and hopefully India specific information. Have a look for Yahoo groups for Indian adoption from the UK, I know there are groups on there for UK people who've adopted from certain countries. Hopefully it shouldn't be difficult to get the information you need about the process. I can't give any advice other than that because I know nothing about Indian adoption, except I heard it was very difficult if you have no Indian heritage

I entirely understand the want for a daughter - I specified a girl the first time I adopted out of preference alone

Good luck :)

thank you for encouragement! adoptmama and Lilka, have your adoptions been everything you wanted them to be? Would you change anything?

I have only adopted domestically, not internationally btw, so I can't offer much in the way of advice for that

Difficult question

Something I've thought about quite a bit over the years, as it happens (the first question)

I had very little knowledge of the adoption process when I enquired, so I didn't have much expectation as to what it would entail. I knew there was a homestudy process involving lots of questions and meetings, and that was all I knew about how you got approved. I didn't know how you found a child, or what process you then followed to bring them home

Funnily enough, I feel now that I didn't need to specify a girl the first time, and that it would have been better to remain open on gender (I was childless). I know that I would have been delighted with a son. But of course, I have my beautiful DD1 and i wouldn't want to have adopted any child but her!!

Above all, I just wanted to be a mum. So adoption has given me my parenthood, and has been the best thing I've ever done

But no, parenting my children (especially my two girls) has not been what I imagined it would be at the start of the adoption process. I am very positive about adoption, but my views on it have changed a great deal in 16 years, as my reality did and does not match my expectations pre-adoption

I'd definitely made myself more aware of the process - and cost - involved in getting British citizenship for the kids (they still don't have it but it is not a problem at this time as they are still on EU passports so travel is easy).

I'd have done it younger so I had more energy :)

I read everything I could on attachment/attachment disorder. Despite all that I had read I still did not fully comprehend what it was going to be like to have a child with attachment 'issues'. That was a long road to travel - still is to an extent. So be prepared for the very real issues children/babies can have. DD1 came home from a (good) institution at less than 1 year yet was still profoundly damaged by the lack of one-to-one attention and, especially, holding which she experienced in her early months. I read a lot on the symptoms of attachment issues and on attachment parenting but, knowing what I know now, I would look more too at the anxiety issues a child could have, as that has been a problem for us - on going fear of re-abandonment being at the root of a lot of it.

Isn't it funny how we all read the same post yet come to different conclusions? I never for one minute thought you were "choosing and accessory" I understood you were wishing to adopt a child who's future would not be as good as the preferred sex in that country.
It's a funny old world!

Very best wishes

Intercountry adoption is increasingly difficult. If you are specifically looking at India - its tough. Being of Indian origin will help - even more so if you still have family in India who have any knowledge of local childrens homes. My understanding is that although there is a central authority (CARA) its still very much about local contacts and teh process is still very decentralised.

It may be more practical for you to look at the UK - some London authorities have predominantly non-white children available. IAC is probably a good starting point for India and try a handful of the inner london boroughs adoption teams as well.

I second what Kew said about adopting abroad, it is not as easy as it once was (not that it was very easy to start with!!)

Our LA has 46 children currently up for adoption that are not of white British heritage (I know the exact figures because was at a training session yesterday). I don't know the breakdown of exactly what heritage they have, or what age/gender they are but they are all "waiting to go" so to speak. I don't think this is an unusual situation for LA's.

Although these children have not been rejected for gender reasons, they would still benefit greatly from being adopted by loving parents.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do x x x

BTW adoptmama - DS's institution wasn't at all horrendous - it was staffed by lovely caring women and he got good basic care and attention which shows in his current lack of delays despite being a 26 week premmie who was entirely institutionalized until he was 1. Likewise I think the position in China has (at least in the "international" orphanages) improved quite dramatically with a large proportion of children being fostered.

Attachment/abandonment issues are common in my experience, regardless of the pre-adoption life of the child - in fact in my (limited) experience those children who suffered significant abuse/neglect by birth parents prior to foster care show more issues than those children who lived in decent (though poorly resourced) institutions consistently.

Slightly off the point!

Totally agree that not all institutions are bad. In fact DD1s was great in many respects and they truly loved her. I was so relived by that as I visited and waited to bring her home. However it was the fact that they clearly loved her that made me blind to the signs she was already exhibiting of attachment disorder. I thought the fact they loved her would immunise her in some way. It didn't. It wasn't the lact of love, it was the lack of consistent care that caused the problems.

I also know of one adoptive family (here in the country I live in) who took their adopted infant to dr. as behaviour became increasingly difficult etc. and they found she was in drug withdrawal because the orphanage had been doping the kids with cough mixture to keep them quiet etc as they did not have enough staff to cope with the number of babies. So sadly even in developed countries abuse within the orphanages exists and takes many forms.

There was a child in the sickbay with DS who "celebrated" his first birthday whilst I was there and it was obvious even to me that he was a walking time bomb of attachment disorder - he was so desperate for affection and would attach to me like a limpet based on ten minutes of attention from me intially. So much for damage being avoided in the under twos (I know they don't quite say this any more but its what we were told).

DS doesnt have any attachment problems but then he was a bugger to get to attach at all and I had to work hard on him but his reactions were much more "normal" in a child of 11 months. I have come to the conclusion that the personality of the child is AT LEAST as important as the quality of care in determining attachment problems even in very young children.

Sorry - now that really is off the point!