Open evening soon, what should we ask?

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi, we have an open evening with our local social services soon. I know the kind of thing, lots of eager people, lots of coffee and biscuits and a few smiling professional, a presentation and then a Q and A, plus chance to ask questions one to one with the staff.

Any ideas of good things to ask/say? Please.

We can apply officially in UNDER TWO MONTHS! So excited but trying to be calm and take it all in. Want to get most out of evening.

Thanks so much.

Is this the first evening you will have attended? Apologies, I know you've been on this board a bit recently but I can't remember.

Anyway, for an initial enquiry evening I would say be prepared for them to give you lots of horror stories and for it all to seem much harder than you first thought.

I wouldn't think too deeply about what you want to ask them. TBH the chat with a SW is more about them deciding whether they want you or not. So nod and grin, be open to all the things they suggest and say things like' we know we have a lot to learn'.

Good luck!

It's not the first ever but the other we went to was 2 years ago. I also went to a fostering evening, where I decided fostering really wasn't for me.

Thanks so much Snail.

Don't worry about having a list of Qs. You might want to ask something generic about how long the approval process is taking at the moment, but the
Presentation should cover the basics and you might just want to clarify a couple of points. be prepared to feel a bit deflated afterwards - they do spell out how tough it can be to put off the faint hearted

Hi, our open evening was exactly as you described, coffee/biscuits/lots of polite chitchat with nervous people!!

Agree with Snail that they will bombard you with horror stories about the following:

1. there are no children under the age of about 12 to be adopted (ok slight exageration on my part, but you get the point!!)
2. the children that will be placed with you will tear you house, life, and family apart.
3. that the process is so intrusive you might as well greet the social worker naked (again, slight exageration on my part!!)

We just sat and listened, and didn't really go with any questions in mind. There were a couple of social workers available during and after if you feel more comfortable asking questions privately.

Above all, don't worry. You aren't being scored or judged :)

Hope that helps?

Thanks for your support. Excited but also knackered out by life at moment! So need to look bright eyed and bushy tailed!

I think the main thing you want to find out is what kind of children they have coming through for adoption, and what kind of adoptive parents they are looking for. At our adoption info evening, there were women in tears because they were basically told, "There's no babies for you because you're white". They won't put it like that these days, because the rules have changed, but you need to have a sense of whether recruiting you will be a priority for them.

But I agree that this is not an occasion where you need to showcase yourselves. There will probably be lots of people there, and it's ok to fade back a bit if you want to. I think the crucial discussion is the following one - when a social worker comes to visit you in your home. It is basically then and there that they decide whether they want you or not.

Best of luck x

Totally agree with Devora There is no point in the sws not being honest with you about the age of children who are awaiting adoption - some people do still think there are 6 week babies awaiting adoption whereas this is not the case, as I'm sure you know.

LAs differ of course but the need is usually for older children (middle years age) sibling groups and chldren with disabilities. Also I think you stand a better chance of having an under 5 yrs child if you are prepared to take 2 sibs as LA children don't usually come as single children; there are almost always sibs.

Agree with LSP and Devora's last para. The only thing I would add is that this is a 2 way street and yes the LA have to decide if they can afford the time and finance to assess you, dependent upon your "offer" (what age range you want to consider and any other matching issues) but it is also for you to really ask yourselves if adoption is for you. It won't really be possible for you to know this until the prep course starts but I don't think sws stress this aspect of the process enough.

Last thing to worry about is what to ask - most people are nervous and yet are very different in their own home when talking just to the social worker. Some people can be seen to be "pushy" at the Info evening and that is not a good idea.

As someone else has said best thing to ask (if you want to) is about the children awaiting adoption.

TBH I think most things will be covered during the presentation and the adopters talking.
Try not to over analyse what you should ask/say. Go and listen and see if any questions come to mind.

OK, I have to jump in here and say that almost all the couples we met who have adopted have been matched with a child under 18 months (us included). In my mind that is still a baby.

No, there aren't any 6 week olds. And telling a SW that you really want a baby is like a red rag to a bull but.... if you want young then say under 2 years and see how you get on.

That's good to know snail1973......yes I know it is posssible but I have been retired as a Fostering & Adoption sw and tm mgr for 8 years, so maybe things have changed, and this could be because more children are being removed earlier (this certainly happened following the Peter Connelly case) Applications for Care Orders nationally increased by 50% - demonstrating that social workers were no longer prepared to take the risk of leaving children for whom there was concern, should they be the next sw to have a Peter Connelly on their caseload.

However I do recall that during my last few years with the LA for whom I worked for many years we did place many children under 2. Also applicants may start off wanting say a 1 yr old, but they can be "pushed up" to conider a slightly older child. However it is still the case that once a child is over 5 or 6 his or her chances of adoption do diminish with every passing week and the chances of course decrease the older the child gets.

My youngest was just under over 2 when placed with us and he was and still is in my opinion, at nearly 3!!a baby. He was placed with us with his older brother who was just over 3.

I know a mixture of people who adopted single children and sibling groups of what I consider young children (under 3).

However, on the flip side, I also know a fair amount of people who waited a long time for very young children as that is all they would consider. Agree with snail about the red rag to a bull when mentioning babies :) also agree that saying under 2 is the safer way of putting it across to SW.

It makes me sad that there are so many older children waiting to be adopted, but we were honest from the start and said we would only consider children under 3years. We were very open to sibling groups though, which I think helped.

and still is in my opinion, at nearly 3

sorry :)

We too adopted babies. Dd1 was only just 2 (and still a baby )
Dd2 was six months old... We adopted 1 and 2 together.
Then a few years later dd3 was 5 months old when she came home.
I do think there are more babies, especially in our area. But these babies will be born to drug dependant/ alcoholic mothers... As were our daughters. So a prospective adopter will have to be prepared for the uncertainty of the child's future.

Oh glad to hear about all these babies being placed for adoption but Moomoomie you have just triggered something in me, when you mention drug dependent/alcoholic mothers. A baby born to a woman addicted to drugs can be withdrawn from anything passed on in a relatively short time, but is I think a horrid thing for babies to be born this way. I heard on the radio yesterday that even mothers with HIV won't necessarily have a baby with HIV and of course there are many drugs now for HIV that mean it is no longer the death sentence that it once was.

The real worry is babies born to alcholic mothers, who have foetal alcohol syndrome, because there is no cure for this. Not saying all babies born to mothers who have a drink problem, but it is possible. The reason there is no cure is because alcohol (unlike drugs) can pass through the bloodstream into the placenta and damage the cells of the foetus in the womb, and once they are damaged there is no cure.

Don't want to hi jack the thread but 80% of babies with FAS are not diagnosed in this country, although I think that might be changing. Also as it is a syndrome it is difficult to predict how the baby will be affected as he/she grows and it can cause horrendous behaviour/emotional problems.
If anyone is interested you can google it. There is also a book called "The Hangover without a Cure" - can't recall who wrote it.

Nananina . Our youngest two both have FASD, so I know exactly what you are talking about. It is a syndrome that often goes undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. Often because it is only adoptive parents who will talk about it. Not many birth mothers will admit to have a drink problem.
FASD is now a recognised spectrum disorder, which does help, but it will take a long time for people to understand all about it and the fact that a child will never recover from it.

Oh Moomoomie You are so right that many people know nothing about this problem. There must have been some movement if it is now a recognised spectrum disorder, but the trouble is you will have no idea where your children will be on the spectrum - my understanding is that it can range from normal to highly disturbed children, whose condition is never diagnosed, so they are seen as troublemakers.

Many social workers don't know anything about it either, nor nurses or doctors. I placed a baby many years ago with a couple for adoption (bm was alcoholic) and I met up with the adoptive mum by chance when the girl I'd placed at 6 months was now in her 20s and my did she have a story to tell. They still loved her but had had one hell of a time with her.

Later I was involved in another case (when I was working independently) where the bm was alcoholic and this was the 5th child, and as soon as I saw the baby in the foster home, she remined me so much of the little girl I placed at 6 months. Same facial features, small for dates, mis-shapen head, thin top lip - it was astonishing. The foster carers were very experienced and when I shared my concerns they said they had wondered the same thing because they too could recall a child who looked like this one, with an alcoholic mother.

As you know all LAC have a medical and it hadn't been picked up at all. I spoke to the HV and she knew nothing about it but said even if a baby was damaged by alcohol they could withdraw. I couldn't get any medic to take ny notice. I was assessing some relatives to take this baby btw and that was the nature of my involvement. I spoke to the guardian about my fears and she took me seriously and arranged for someone from Glasgow to come and see the baby and she was diagnosed. I advised the relatives not to go ahead as they already had 3 young children and fortunately they took my advice. Often wonder what happened to that little girl.

Sorry I am hi-jacking now but it might be of interest to others on this thread.

Thanks for all your comments.

I agree FAS sounds a terrible legacy for any child to be born with.

The evening went fine, no worries. Yes, they really wanted to talk to us and not listen to us, which was fine. I knew a fair amount of stuff after trawling the Internet for a while and also attending an open evening a couple of years ago (and a fostering evening last month).

Interesting that the biscuits served were my favourite!! Good sign!!

In our area there are babies, young children and older children awaiting adoption. Yes, lots of younger children seem to have a all manor of problems and the social workers were very open about this.

People are approved to adopt 0-5, we have a child already so would not want to adopt anyone older than 5.

I am so saddened to think of children who would like to be adopted but are older.

I wonder how many people who don't have fertility problems do adopt, I wish we had started younger at our family and would be more able to adopt an older child, but we do want our DD to be the older one by quite a way as that is meant to avoid some of the problems.

Anyway, we will see what the future holds.

Thanks guys.

Yay for nice biscuits

Glad the evening went well. What happens now? Been a while since i went through this! What kind of timeframe were they talking/hinting about?

I don't think many fertile couples adopt. I've known a few but by far most of them had fertility problems. Of the ones who were fertile, the majority I knew already had birth children (whether with their current partner or a previous one) and some had planned from the start to do both.

I think the majority of the singlies and gay couples are fertile but don't want to persue fertility treatment. It's a slightly different choice though, than a fertile heterosexual couple. They can 'just' have a baby, whereas a fertile single or gay couple still needs intervention of some kind to get pregnant. So I guess as well as whether you want a birth child, it comes down to which kind of intervention you prefer - the medical staff, or social services!

It's sad how many older children wait (having two lovely ones myself), but it's senseless for you personally to feel guilty or anything. You can't because of age gap rules and birth order. Not everyone can or is suited to older children after all

Thanks lilka for your kind comments, as ever, very thoughtful.

Time frame was kind of one year to get approved and then could be anything from a week to a year to get matched or maybe I am imagening it. All the usual stuff, if you were looking to adopt a child with disbilities etc then the wait would be a lot less, a sibling group etc. So have to work in my mind on both it taking over a year, almost 2 years and not happening at all!!

Sadly, adopting a young baby minimises some risks but increases others. As nina points out, most young babies placed for adoption have been removed at birth. This is nearly always because the birth mother ( and often birth father) have some combination of learning difficulties, mental health problems and addictions. So the riks that the child has susctained soem permanent damage and /or genetic vulneability is very high.

Toddlers and older children will probably have been neglcted or abused withij their birth families and perhaps again within the " care " system, but are more likely to show sighns of any problems. Often SWs are reluctant to get a dx as it will make the child hard to place. Its heartening to hear of those like nina who take a more profesional and child centered approach.

Beware of SWs who tell you that a child has some developmenatl delays "but we are sure they will sort tehmselves out when he/she has a permanent placeemnt. " . This is nonsense,no doctor or psychologist would make such a statement.

Always insist on meeting the childs Fc , preferably alone ( without a sw, unless you have a good one). Listen vefy carefully to the childs Fcs-they may not have a profesional qualification but usually they have lots of experince of children and a good knowlegde of what is " normal" . They will often mention red flags and you need to educate yourselfenough to spot these and know what they mean.

Nearly Every adopted child is higher risk than one born to you. Its about educating yourself about what the possibel risks are and how much you are willijg to take. Every family is different and has different resources and capabilites. A good and experinced worker will help you do this work throughout the assessment. But you need to do a lot of reading and research yourself too.

Good luck

Kristina, you are so right about learning to read between the lines of SW descriptions of children. We likened it to understanding estate agent speak when looking at houses (eg "cosy" means "tiny" when used to describe a lounge). We were warned to look out for words like "boisterous"... Which is why a quiet chat with a foster carer is invaluable (it's a shame that you don't normally get to meet them, as I understand it, until after the match has been agreed).

On the age thing, very little babies - ie under 6-8 months (I agree under 2 is still a baby really!) - may or may not go on to have complicated medical problems, it's usually just too soon to tell or understand the severity or implications of the problem. So it's important to be able to deal with the uncertainty. Older children may have had a more difficult start in life in terms of multiple foster placements, possibly living with their birth family in chaotic surroundings etc, but it's less likely that a significant unknown medical issue will emerge further down the line.

Good luck with the next stage Italian. Do you know when you are having a home visit?

Thanks Kristina. Very helpful.

Kristina, what does "Often SWs are reluctant to get a dx as it will make the child hard to place." mean?

Thanks Families we can't actually start until September as our last fertility treatment was earlier on this year. I do feel ready but the social services said to wait until September.

We don't especially want a baby, of course I had wanted a baby, after years of fertility treatment but I am not too worried now about the age of the child, as long as there is a significant gap between our DD and the new child, our DD will be at least 8 before we are matched, possibly 9, so even if the child is 5 then there would be 3 to 4 years gap. The only down side with a 5 year old is they would be at school full time and I kind of felt a little bonding time away from school would help.

Our local authority placed kids for adoption from age 0-10 last year I think (or the year before, whenever they have stats for), so I guess we just need to be open. Ultimately, I feel I would like to parent a child who I can cope with, not being able to cope will not be good for the child or me or DH or DD!

The only thing I felt a little sad was that the social workers were just very keen to place the children who are harder to place, so quite rightly they will be wanting to find people who are very open and would like to parent children with disabilities etc. I can totally understand this, and so I do feel a degree of pressure!

So - question - What do I do at interview stage, be very 'open' and truthful and run the risk they will not accept us or sound very 'open' about anyone and then have to say that I can't cope with learning difficulties etc.

Behavioural or emotional problems seem 'easier' to deal with as I kind of hope we will help the child with those difficulties! I don't mean behaviourl difficulties are easy! I mean I would hope with help thins can be overcome but a lifelong condition may not. Does that make sense?

We can't afford as a family for me never to work again etc. How can I say that without ruling myself out?

I can take adoption leave but once the 'children' are older I would want to work part-time again. A friend has a son with autism and she is now home schooling him because he can't really cope with school. I so admire her but I know I could not do that. I feel a slight pressure to be a super mum when what I just wanted to do was be an ordinary mum to more than one child.

Hope I don't sound like a selfish bitch!

Thanks for all your kind comments.

Dx= diagnosis

You afe right that a newly pkaced child needs time to bond, esp with the mum ( as thats where attachment starts). Its sometimes better to delay a child startimg school to allow time for this. Attachment cant be delayed whereas schoolwork can.

You are right, taking a child you cant cope with doesnt help anyone. Yu will never get another child placed and the child will be further traumatised by a failed placament. Thats why you need to becoem familiar with the kids of issues that waiting children will have. There is no point in getting approved if you are then not open to the times of children that your agency have to place. Its not a waiting list system. Each placing Sw will look for the best match for their child, it doesnt matter if you were approved 2days ago or two years ago. I know that at the moment the big issuex seems getting approved. But in the long run its about finding YOUR child.

So you need to learn what its like to live with the types of children that are waiting. For example i would take a child with a moderate physical disability or mediavl condition way befroe one with FASD. But other families here cope very well with FASD.

Emotional or bahavioural probelsm can certainly be life long, and can preclude a child attending mainstream school. If you cannot accept the risk of learning difficulties you would be advised to avoid babies or toddlers, as its unlikely that these can be ruled out.

Its all very complicated and daunting i know. But there are many books and websites to eductae you and you will learn a lot from meeting other Fcs and adopters in RL.

I totally agree about reading between the lines. Social workers don't like talking about potential problems.
Before dd3 was placed with us, we met the medical advisor for the adoption team who spoke a lot of sense and talked about the possibility of FASD and cognitive delay. So we were expecting there to be problems with as she grew older. Knowing the history really helped when she started pre school and then school. Even the paed we see was reluctant to diagnose FASD. She actually said to me " do you think a diagnosis would help"
Fortunately school is being fantastic and she has support in place.
We would never have said "no" to adopting dd3, as she is birth sister to our older two, but she has totally changed the dynamics of the family and demands a lot of our attention.

Re working-again, you need to consider what yu will do if you adopt a child who needs one parent at home. What do youplan to do in school holidays and after school?many afopted children cannot cope with subsitute care. If the are appintmenst with doctors, therapists, etc you will need to take time off work for them. What will you do if you need to home school ( like your friend) because there isnt a suitable school avaiable for your child?

So you see, its not a matter of " when do i tell the Ss the truth? ".its more abut the two of you unferstanding the potential problems and thinking through how you would /could adress them. Sws cant do this for you-most of them have no contcat with families aftre the adoption order is granted so have no knowledge of how easy or hard it is to live with and what the practical issuez are.

They might tell you" its our policy to only place pre school children with families where one parent is at home full time". They might NOT tell you that their panel always favours such families for high demand chikdren. But that wont be your biggest probelm if your childs needs preclude you going back to work in 3years.SS will be long gone.