Early thoughts

[Dell28]

Hi, just hoping for some advice really.

My husband and I are at the very early stages of exploring our thoughts about adoption. I have read a lot of forums, articles and websites, so feel I have a general overview of what may lie ahead if we do decide to go ahead, (obviously don't know what it would be like for us in reality!) but I still have a load of questions specific to us and our lifestyle. If anyone can help answer them I would be very grateful. :)

We have a 3 year old birth son. We also had a daughter who would now be 4, but who died as a baby. I have also had 3 miscarriages in the past. We want to have more children, I don't want to be pregnant again. Hence the thoughts on adoption! I am very aware having read all I have that adoption is such a big deal, for everyone involved.

Where do we need to be emotionally regarding our past experiences before beginning the adoption process? I know for instance, 2 years ago I would have said I am beginning to emerge from the cloud of grief following our little girl's death, but now, I look back and see I was still engulfed in it. I am just wondering really if this sort of thing is such a gradual, ongoing process that in 2 more years I will look back at this time as still 'early days'. And if so, when is it wise to begin something so all-encompassing as adopting a child?

Secondly, the way we parent our son is not ... Conventional? Common? I don't know the right word really! But basically the biggies are he is still breastfed and we intend to home educate. I have read a lot about how adopted children need to be parented in ways that are very different to birth children, but in what ways different? And how would all these things be considered by social services in the process? I guess I am particularly concerned about their views on home education!

Also, another concern I have is about my son. Which I think is normal, as I would be concerned if we were having another birth child. And I don't think I am any more concerned than anyone else having children after already having one! I think he would be a lovely brother. He would love a sibling, and would benefit in many ways. However, it would be hard for him too. Probably especially so with an adopted sibling. Also, what about sibling groups? Like I say, we are at very early stages of thinking right now, but the idea of a sibling group appeals to us. Mostly because when I was a child we had issues as a family for a time, and my siblings and I weren't able to stay together. It had huge effects in our lives, so I feel really strongly about keeping siblings together. But then my son would be 'outnumbered' ;) as it were. So would that be ok?!

Another thought (I promise I will stop typing at some point!) is our ages. We are mid-20s, so pretty young. However, we have 'life experience' coming out of our ears. No one ever believes we are only in our 20s, ha ha. forced laugh Would our ages be a barrier at all? I have read you should be over 25, and we are, but in practice do social services prefer older adopters than this?

And finally (see, we got there in the end!) is our relationship with our own parents/our experiences of childhood. I get on reasonably well with my parents, but we are by no means 'close'. I was made homeless by them aged 16, and whilst I have forgiven and moved on, I don't share a closeness that I see in other families. Maybe because I haven't moved on quite so much as I like to tell myself! I don't know what social services would expect from me in terms of this relationship. Would they want me to make attempts to repair it some more, or is it acceptable to just not get on that well? And does it make any difference that they live in Australia? (we're in UK). My husband also has parental issues. He has no relationship with his father, though does see his mother (they are still married though - complicated!). He does not like his father at all. To the extent that he changed his surname. Again, how would that be viewed? Our reasons behind our distant relationships with our parents are perfectly valid and reasonable, and we are each pretty happy with the level of relationship we do have, but on paper - well, it just looks bad doesn't it?! We do have a very good network of close friends, and close relationships with other family members (grandparents, siblings, uncles etc).

I'm sorry for the ridiculously long message.

I know I could just phone somebody from social services, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot before even beginning by pouring out all my worries and getting a big black mark next to our names!

Thanks in advance for any response!

I think the only way you will know is by speaking to social services.

We thought about adoption when we were struggling to conceive our DS. And we had a big question mark over whether we thought they'd let us adopt. but we went down to an event and spoke to one of the social workers and she really put our minds at ease. Obviously she couldn't guarantee we'd get approved but we found the whole experience really positive and I still hope it's something we might consider in the future.

Good luck

Hi and welcome :)

I haven't got much time now, but I'll answer some of your questions, and I'll come back and answer the rest later

Your parents - you don't need to have a great relationship with your parents. You need a support network of people who can help you out, and who will be there for you post-adoption, but your parents don't need to be central in it, or even on it at all. I think you should be fine with it. I know several people who adopted who don't have good relationships with their parents either. However, it is something the SW will talk lots about during homestudy, as there is a section of it that it all about your own childhood and parents.

Age (and your BS age) - Mid 20's is definitely young in adoption terms, I think the average age is 38 or thereabouts, but you do already have a child so you've made the big leap already (SS sometimes think that people your age should be having fun with a child free life before seettling down later!) so you should be OK. Your BS is young yet at 3, and the minimum age gap is 2 years between the children, but might be set even larger, at 3 or 4 years. So it may be that you could not be assessed anyway yet, and they would tell you to come back in two years time. That's something you will have to ask agencies about, and they will tell you their policy

Have you ever had counselling about your daughter's eath? SS tend to like counselling, and it might be an idea if you feel like it might help in any way. Otherwise, you are past the mimimum time they would take someone on after the death of a child (my LA would want a wait of over 2/2.5 years). That will also definitely be explored during homestudy

I will answer siblings and parenting adopted children later - I tend to write mammoth posts so no time now, but I promise I will come back :)

I agree with jammic, phone social services, sounds like you are giving this a lot of consideration and thought to the matter, you are clearly on the right path with your questions.

Definitely worth building up a good support network, not everyone has a good relationship with their family but your social worker would probably want to explore that with you and probably want you to think about what was wrong with the relationships and what you can do differently.

As for parenting differently I don't think the breatsfeeding thing will be an issue and I have read of other adopters home-schooling - for some children it's probably a better choice. Its more about creating trust, safety and attachment for instance my daughter cannot respond to consequences or rewards so we have to think of different ways of coping with difficult behaviour. Some might say oh she just needs a smacked bottom but it really is not that simple (and something I would not consider anyway).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

www.adoptivemummy.co.uk

Hi, we are young in terms of adoptive parents, but our SW always said that was a good thing as we have lots of energy (we have 2 very active children).

I can't answer you about the birth child aspect as we don't have any, and all my other adoptive mummy friends also are adoptive and not birth mummys. Having said that, on our prep training, there were loads of prespective parents who had birth children.

I don't have a brilliant relationship with my mum, and it was not a problem. They focus on your whole support network, not just your immediate family.

Hope that helps, and it really is a lovely lovely thing to do :)

x x x

Forgot to include that my DH and I were 28 when we adopted our boys

x x

A few thoughts based on our experiences:

SS actually like you to have had lots of 'life experience' and have come through the other side. (I had v little bad stuff in my life and it was actually a bit of an issue for us at one stage!!) What I mean is that the children who are to be placed for adoption are likely to have had a load of bad stuff happen to them directly or indirectly and if you have also had tough times yourself then the theory is that you will be better placed to help guide them through life on the right track because you have a better understanding of what they are going through/feeling etc

But... what they really want to know is, are you 'over' all the bad stuff, have you accepted it, got treatment/counselling etc (Lilkas right they lurve counselling!) and are in a positive place now. I certainly don't mean that you would ever, ever forget your daughter but I am thinking more of your other experiences and family relationships. They just want to be sure that your life is stable, that you have identified any difficult areas and are dealing with them sensibly. I don't think there is a time frame for how soon after a loss like yours they would assess you, its more about your state of mind and you do sound very realistic about things so I think that is as good as you can ask for.

I have no idea about their views on breastfeeding and home schooling but what they want to hear is that you are on board with what they call therapeutic parenting ie. you will listen to and understand the child and parent them in the way that is best for them. So any views you have that are unconventional they may want to be clear whether you have good well founded reasons for thinking that, but also that if a professional told you that an adopted child you'd be linked with would be much better off in state school that you would listen to that advice and be prepared to be flexible. I doubt that would ever happen BTW but it's just an example, but they are always keen to hear that the mum is going to stay off work for as long as necessary and not rush back to work for example.

I wonder how you would feel about not being able to breastfeed an adopted child though? They'd probably want to explore that.

You could start by ringing for LAs and (as you say) not necessarily going into all the details above, but just asking if they would assess you for adoption with a 3 yr old. I was told by several that we had to wait until DD was 5 yrs (we adopted her at 10 mnths) then found one who was fine to go ahead with her age 3. So worth ringing around, they do have different views.

Good luck and do come back if you have more Qs

Sorry for the loss of your daughter.It sounds like you have put a lof of thought into considering adoption. Which is a very good thing.
I agree that it would be worth talking to SS, what I have noticed since joining MN is, that many agencies are different and have different criteria. They may ask you to come back in a few years time, which you have age on your side!
It sounds to me like you are an " attachment " parent, which is what adopted children need.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
The good times with an adopted child far out way the bad.

The fact that you parent in an unconventional way may be a plus or a minus, purely depending on the agency or LA you approach. I don't think any of us will be able to say how it will be percieved. Individual SW'ers sometimes have an issue with things like late breastfeeding and homeschooling, but equally many are totally fine. It may be a good idea for you to approach more than one agency about it and ask their opinion. The only general sure thing about parenting styles are that ALL agencies will dislike smacking (although it doesn't sound like you do that, it is pretty much banned in adoption), and all will want to see flexibility in parenting, as snail said. Other than that, it is very depedent on who you are dealing with

You asked in what ways adopted children need different parenting to birth children. Basically, nowadays when people say 'adopted children', they mean children who have been traumatised by abuse, neglect, seperation or any combination of those. The effect of that can be small, or may be huge. It is likely to have a large impact on the way a child will relate to adults - they will be unlikely to form a trusting or loving bond with an adoptive parent easily, and they may have other delays and disabilities, social, behavioural, emotional and educational problems. Parenting techniques for adopted children that are advocated by professionals, by LA's/VA's etc are focussed on the child building up trust and attachments, healing from abusive experiences, and making sense of themself and their past. Not in the simple behavioural modification that you might find on a Supernanny episode. So generally, the idea is that you see past the behaviour to the underlying feelings, and respond to this.

So for instance, the naughty chair might be a bad idea, because the idea of it is simply that you send the child away from you so they learn to not do whatever it is you don't want them to. For a child who is behaving 'badly' because they are very scared inside, who isn't able to regulate him/herself or calm him/herself down alone, and who has already been seperated from their original family and one or more foster parents, sending them away from you to the naughty step might in fact be a bad idea. They can't calm down without you, you aren't there and have told them they aren't wanted near you right now, and it won't change the fact that they are still really scared on the inside. That's just an example, that may or may not apply to any individual adopted child. But generally, you are parenting a child who thinks differently to a secure birth child, who has certain deep insecurites and fears a birth child probably wouldn't have, has experienced traumas your BC hasn't etc, so yyou parent a bit (or a lot) differently depending on the child

Your parenting style sounds fine to me, the style that most LA's will dislike is a parenting style which focusses on punishment, or is very inflexible. They like parents to be willing to change the way they parent if it doesn't work for their child, not someone who will persevere with something that isn't working. Personally I had to change the way I parented DD1 because what I tried originally just did not work, and it was very very difficult for me to do, but I kept at it, and luckily was supported in this (eventually). It did make a huge difference to us

On siblings - only you can decide whether siblings are what you want. You can explore that in homestudy, you can even be approved for either one child or two, and look at profiles for both. Things to bear in mind - siblings can sometimes have relationships based in trauma, which is not a healthy relationship. They may not act like siblings, and may have a very complicated relationship with each other. Two at once is harder practically and you have a dual load of issues. On the other hand, they may get along well, and have a good relationship. Your DS will have to cope with two siblings at once not one, which will take more attention away from him than just one other child.

Ooops - that was rather longer than I meant it to be

Hello Del,

Can I just say what a warm feeling I had from reading your words and the way you parent your son. I believe so many adopted children will benefit from your parenting style, though of course maybe others won't. That's why, I guess, the home study is important, so you can be matched with the right child or children.

I am so sorry for the loss of your little girl. So tragic and I imagine the loss will always be there for you and your husband. But I also believe that terrible loss will mean you are able to identify with the children you go on to parent, who will also have suffered a loss. I know my own losses have helped me in the raising of my adoptive and now fostered children.

I don't know if you have had counselling, however I undertook some as we were being assessed as adoptive parents. I found it so very helpful in expressing my own grief for the loss of a baby and subsequent unsuccessful infertility treatment. It was almost like letting go on final time before going onto the next stage of my life. I would recommend it highly.

We adopted a sibling group of 4 and have never regretted it. I am so glad they have always had each other, especially through those terrible teens when 'but you're not my real mother' frequently hovered on their lips. I do understand you worry that more than one child could overwhelm your son, so maybe you will decide against it. But I wish you well whatever you decide. Again, I just had such a lovely warm feeling when reading your words.

Please let us know how things progress for you all.

you sooo much for all your lovely, informative messages.

I have had bereavment counselling, and also counselling I sought out specifically about my relationship with my parents. So I do feel mostly sorted. And everything is very stable. My husband has never had counselling, he doesn't feel it is right for him. He tends to play sports instead! Haha. I guess that would be explored.

Yeah, we are 'attachment' parents in general. And also follow a lot of 'unconditional parenting' (Alfie Kohn) but not all, which sounds similar to what Lilka said about reasons behind not using the naughty step. I do think we are flexible though. Our choices are not set in stone, and have all been made in response to our son. School is not a set no forever - for him or for other children. Just a response to him being an August baby, quiet, not a fan of loud groups, etc. Again, I suppose it will all be explored!

Re. our son's age, it hadn't actually occured to me that that would be an issue! D'oh. I just thought because it is likely to take a long time he would be old enough by then. I didn't really realise they may not even start the process for a few more years. Ah well.

I guess the next step is to make the call. It just feels so huge! deep breath

Thank you again for all your detailed responses. It has been truely helpful.

I'm sure I'll be back to pick your brains again!

Whoops - Thank you**

Hi Dell I just wanted to pop in and say hello. Firstly, I am so very sorry at the loss of your little girl.

I can't answer any questions because I am right at the start of the adoption journey too! We have a birth DD aged 7 and for the last 6 and a half years we have tried to giver her a sibling. I had a miscarriage when my DD was very little and after that had many attempts at fertility treatment that did not work. We have now decided (my DH and I) that we don't want any more treatment and we want to look into adoption, and also possibly fostering, maybe relief fostering where you look after a child for a weekend, and just explore the whole subject. We need to wait a few months because we only just finished our treatment but I plan to call Social Services and get some info soon and also to go to an open evening with my DH. We did look into adoption two years ago and got as far as the open evening but at that time I felt it was just not the right time for me so I didn't continue with it and we tried a bit more fertility treatment. I've got a counselling appointment booked with the clinic to help me move on. I actually feel OK about it all but I kind of feel I need to prove I have moved on, so the counselling will perhaps help me to express what I am feeling. So it's nice to read from others that they 'lurve' counselling (I do too, it has always been very helpful). Kind of good to think too that the difficult experiences that I have dealt with from the past could be useful in adoption.

Anyway, I just wanted to say hi because although we've had different experiences I guess we are maybe at that early stage and it is just good to read your post.

Lilka your information on parenting style was really helpful, it was interesting to read it and see it from that direction. Our DD exhibits some challenging behaviour at times and it has been a journey for me to see that the old styles of how to 'deal with it' do not always work! I am now much more trying to explore why she gets angry or wants to do things differently etc (she's very individualistic) and tailoring my responses in a helpful way.