Advice please

[Mama1980]

Hi this is only my second post so if I get the ettiquette wrong or ramble please forgive me :) I have a ds 4 and since 2010 have cared for my 14 year old goddaughter -all official social services were involved. She was taken from her parents following their divorce and subsequent nightmare situation. She is doing amazing well at school popular well behaved.... I am so proud of her and love her to pieces. Question is she asked me last night of I would adopt her, does anyone know if this is even possible? Would my age matter? I am 30 and initially the fact I am not older was a
issue. She said she would just like to be able to call me mum. She doesn't see her father and chooses not to see her mother, she requested and was granted by social services no required contact. I have guardianship and social services no longer monitor her as She is doing so well. Is this a good idea ?or even possible ?I don't know if anyone has any advice it would be gratefully received. There is nothing I would not do for her.

What order do you have at the moment?

Thanks for replying I have a full guardianship and residency order.

There are a few kinship carers around who can give you better advice than I can, but why doesn't she feel she can call you "Mum" without an adoption? It's between the two of you and if it's what you both want then I don;t see why you shouldn't.

I do understand her wanting the legitimacy of an adoption but I think the courts are often reluctant to sever the link with birth paretns without compelliong reasons. Having said that - if its what you both want I don't see why you shouldn't try.

Thank you for replying. She does call me mum and I refer to her as my daughter few people at school etc know she isn't but she wants it to be official. I have chatted with her and she said she has this fear that if her parents sort themselves out they could try to take her back, I explained that this would never happen abuse was involved and that social devices would never allow it and neither would I. She said she knew and understood but she just feels she wants to be mine totally. She is very together and coherent she has had counselling and it was her demand that her mother have no contact she testified etc she wants it official. I have reassured her in every way and she rolled her eyes at me and said she understood she knew I am her mum would protect her etc etc but she just wants that piece of paper. I think I will call social services and just find out what they say. .

I think speaking to social services is a good idea - stress the benefit to your DD's feelings of security and how its what she wants.

adoption is seen (rightly) as a very serious legal step by the courts... her clear wishes given her age would be important but i don't think the only consideration... both her parents would have a right to express their views as full parties to any adoption proceedings and in the absence of their support (or at the least complete indifference) i would be suprised if that was overridden. adoption (as i expect you know) severs all legal rights and responsibilities of birth parents. you are right to reassure her about no one making her return to live with either of them against her wishes and right to make enquiries about adoption given her wishes... i wonder whether there is a bit of an aspect of her (understandably) wanting to erase her bad experiences, to wipe out her parents by way of punishment for her bad treatment?? perhaps a bit more counselling might help her come to terms with the reality of her situation and her identity. as a teenager these are ongoing issues for her and even an adoption order won't make the past go away! good luck. she is fortunate to have you in her life.

I have nothing too add re advice... I think speaking to SS is the best way forward too. I wish you and your DD love and luck though, and I hope it all works out for you both .

Thank you both so much for replying, I called social services earlier, the key worker we used to have so she knows the case, I was quite surprised that she was positive about the idea. She would have to attend mandatory counselling sessions to explain her reasons for a court report, if that was satisfactory they would then look into making a application. I will tell her and see what she wants to do. Stress that it will really make no real difference but if it's what she wants.... Yes the idea that she is trying to erase the past has occurred to me but she said not, she tends to think I care too much/over think things like all teenagers but if she wants to proceed she will have to have more counselling. One good thing is we would not have to go through any lengthy assessments again thank goodness as the court has already approved me and granted me parental responsibility anyway so my age would be no factor. Thanks again it's so helpful to hear other people's experiences/views

I do also think that there may be an element of her having control over something. I doubt she's had a lot of choice in teh sad situation so far and this might also be her way of taking back some control. Not necessarily a bad thing IMO.

Good luck to you both.

Hi thanks again everyone. The social worker called today and she has a counselling session Thursday. Does anyone know how this will proceed? I have been told she will see a counsellor then if they give the get go they will apply to the courts. Any idea of timescale please? Also does anyone know what will happen if her birth parents refuse consent? I honestly don't know if they will or not. Thanks everyone I just have so many questions and want to be able to prepare her for every eventuality

I agree with oldqueenie. From what you have told us, i domt think this is a good idea

. The court will not grant an adoption order unless its in the best interetst of the child. Not whthere or not the child wants it.

Its hard to see what she would gain from this.at 14 she will not be forced by the courts to move from where she is and you have an order alreday which secures this. I suspect this is more about control ( as kew says) and punishing her parenst. While its ok to feel like this, a court is nt the right place to work out these feelings

Just because she has chosen not to see her parenst right now doesnt mean that she will always feel like this.

The court will only dispense with her parenst permission if they feel that they are being unreasonabel.

I suspect tjis may be a long And expensive legal battle which you will lose and yu need to considre the impliactions for you all of losing. I assume that as her godmother you are a family member or frined of her paremts.

She needs to put her energy into her school work, hobbies and frinedships and get counselling to help her address her issues

hi there op... i can of course understand how you want to do the right thing for her and think it's really important for you to help her explore this in accordance with her wishes but this is not at all straightforward. if ss are happy to facilitate counselling and comtemplate making an application to the court for an adoption order (and i assume to fund the costs of such an application??) then i think you should consider asking them to fund initially some independent legal advice for her with a solicitor specialising in child law so she can understand all the implications and the likely prospects of success... as the poster below says how will she feel if her parents fight the application and win?? i fear for her and you this could destabilise a currently good and stable situation for her....

Thank you for replying it really is much appreciated I have discussed this a lot with her I've the past week stressed that to will make no difference etc but I have to explore it as she wants to see if its possible. She says she'll be ok if not but she just wants to try. Over and over she has been to counselling and they all say the same that she has dealt, adapted etc very well she is a a student very popular she rides, swims,reads, plays tennis the list is endless lol! I am hoping the latest counsellor can put my mind at rest or at least help her if there is a issue I am missing maybe. I was surprised at how positive social services were with the idea and yes they would fund if the counsellor says so. I was once friends with her mother not anymore her father is not permitted any contact ever, her mother was not to start with but later she was allowed letter contact only if both parties wanted and neither did. to be honest she never talks about them unless there is a issue with the bad stuff she wants to talk over with me, this according to the experts is extremely healthy and what js supposed to happen once she felt secure and happy it's all just faded for both of us tbh. I'm just so bloody proud of her

Hi Mama - this is a tricky one isn't it with posters having differing views, all of them valid. When you say you have "Guardianship and full residency" I suspect what you have is a Residence Order in your favour. Many sws don't explain what this actually means, in that you share PR with the birthparents, and they have the rights to know where you live, any educational issues etc. You are said to be in the "driver's seat" but this only really means making day to day decisions. Importantly the parents can initiate proceedings in court to vary the RO to them, and have the child returned. This as you know is extremely unlikely to happen. There is a duty to take a child's wishes and feelings into consideration and at 14 she would be very able to make it clear that she wanted to stay with you.

There is an order, Special Guardianship Order that is between the RO and adoption. It is relatively new legislation (effective since 2006) and I think this is something you should consider. SWs don't always like SGOs because it entails a fair amount of work for them, but if awarded , you have PRwith only the following exceptions:

1. Child's last name cannot be changed without parent's consent
2. You are not allowed to take the child out of the country for more than 3 months without parents consent
3. You cannot apply for for an Adoption Order without their consent.

In all other respects you have PR. Also an assessment of your needs have to be undertaken by the assessor of the SGO and presented to the court, including any financial need. I don't know if you are getting any payment but I would have thought not. IF any payment is awarded under the terms of the SGO, it would be discretionary, as it would be under the terms of the RO.

I suspect the sw is supporting adoption because it is less work (call me a cynic!) as you have said that you would not need to be assessed again - they would probably have to add an addendum to the report that was prepared for you RO. Remember too that any application RO. SGO or Adoption are your applications to the court, but need to be with the LA's agreement. The report is long and the issues to be covered have been laid down by the D of H (I used to assess people for SGOs) and the Assessment of Needs has to be carried out.

Another positive aspect of the SGO over adoption is that when the girl is old enough and is thinking of independent living (maybe) she will be eligible under the Leaving Care Act 2000 to help and support from the LA leaving care team, which is no bad thing.

Maybe you could discuss this option with the girl and your social worker.

Me again - I forgot to say that another positive aspect of the SGO is that birth parents have to have "leave of the court" before they apply for variation of the Order which means that the judge will only agree to hear the case if the circumstances since the order was made have significantly changed.

Hi nana Nina thank you for your reply I believe it is a Sgo I have for example her parents are not entitled to school information but I need to clarify things. There has been no contact whatsoever for over 2 years, ShI receive no payment, very few people at the school or otherwise know she is not my daughter. The social worker and legal advisor today said that in this case if tthe counsellor ok s it they believe there is a likelihood that the court will agree as she is clearly happy/thriving ie it is her best interest. Aargh this feels like a minefield! I would never have instigated this but I feel I must act according to her wishes, explore the option for her at least.

Yes I would check with sws - do you not have a copy of the Order? It is surprising how many people on these threads have no idea what are the implications of a RO and when they see a solicitor, they find out that the birthparent has far more rights than they were led to believe, and in some cases this has caused a fair amount of trouble.

When you say "I must act according to her wishes" - I don't altogether agree because she is still only 14 and a girl of such age should not be making possible life changing decisions. I get the feeling that you are just going along with her, and as others have said, she just might have ulterior motives, and teenagers are given to whims and fancies.

Thank you again nana nina your thoughts are much appreciated. What I meant was that i feel I should respect and investigate her wishes/options. I feel she is secure and reasoned in her wish but I look forward to the counsellor discussing things further with her in case I am missing something. I think it's important to her to know that we tried even if it will not be possible. She has been abused and overridden half her life so it is very important that she feels she has some say even when she knows-and this part has taken a lot of work-that ultimately I am the adult I will decide in her best interests and protect her. I was so relieved when she started stropping and having normal teenage tantrums I am not just going along with her but I do want to know all the options and issues and arguments. If ultimately I think this is not the right course I will stop it, equally if it is I will apply to the courts. I do have a sgo by the way I just forgot the terminology that is on my paperwork. Thanks again for taking the time to write

Hi Well the counsellor found no 'issues' with dd s thinking, apparently she is calm coherent, reasonable and settled her request apparently is healthy and should be explored. I mentioned the control/ wiping out the past issue and she said she's not she's thinking of her future having dealt with her past and what she wants which is very important as before she was freakishly considerate for fear of losing me/upsetting people. Feeling far less worried and confused still not sure what Neil happen but I do feel very reasured.

Glad to hear that the counselling was helpful.

Hi Mama 1980 I have a special Gaurdianship order for my Grandson. At the final court hearing we were told by social services that we could not change grandsons last name. The Judge said we could because his maternal mothers name would do him no favours. Our solicitor changed his name legally with the change of name deed. Also he has a passport and we are able to take him out of the country without limitations, no parental permission needed. We would love to adopt him, and have sort legal advice on this. Think it would be difficult for us to do this but I could proceed if I decided to. The judge makes all decisions not the social workers even though they can give their opinion. Seek legal advice on this and it seems a sgo may be better for you to do now and progress to adoption :) Good luck

Thank you for replies just to update I saw a family lawyer today, he reviewed our notes over the past week or so-he said to apply for adoption with birth parental consent would likely be pretty straight forward given dd s age and counsellor report/ss feedback etc etc. without parental consent it would be more difficult as courts are reluctant to sever ties, however he did think we have good grounds again given the above for him to argue that it is in dd a best interests. So the first step would be to approach dd s birth parents if we are certain that we want to proceed. I am going to sit down and discuss all this with her tonight.

Imglad youve had good advice. Howevere im a bit concerned about the "" we" in all this. Its the parent who petitions the court to grant an adoption order, not the child and parent. It has tp be about what is in the childs best intertest, not what he or she wants. Its not necessarily the same thimg.

For a 14yo to cut all legal ties with her birth parenst is a huge thing, and far too much responsibility for any child to have. From what you say, she alreday has legal secuirity. She can call you what she likes. When she is 16 she can change her surname too if she wants.

From what you have said, her birth parents will not consent. Putting your DD in the position of asking thme to consent to you afopting her is a BAD plan and i fear will only lead to more conflict between her and her birth parenst, especially as things are so difficult between them. You may have a long and expensive legal battle ahead of you which may well fail. The emotional impact could be devastating.

I also fear that this about wiping out the past, for both of you. However much we mihgt want to pretend tnat these things never happened, it cant be done. She needs to come to terms with the reality of it and move on into a new and excitimg future, nt spent time , energy and money tryimg to do the impossible.

Hi Kristina thanks for your reply, your comments are exactly what i originally thought however since speaking extensively to her counsellor who seemed very pleased with this positive progress, I have re thought things. Counsellor told me (incidentally this counsellor has seen her long term and specialises in abuse/very serious situations) that this was good she has come to terms with her past and now is acting like a teenager making a request just because it's what she wants it with no thoughts as to how it might effect me etc. she feels secure enough apparently to demand knowing I'm here come hell or high water and will do what is best. I had not considered that perspective before. For her this seems to be a practical not emotional request if that makes sense. I have to say I am finding this thread and everyone's thoughts very useful so thank you very much for taking the time to read and reply. More talking I think, I love her do much I am just do scared of making a mistake

It sounds like you have given careful thought to the situation . Im glad to hear that your Dd is so setttled and doing so well at school, its such an important time for her. I hope you are able to reach a decsion about how best to procede. Good luck