All the horror stories - but what is the truth

[Aeschylus]

Having completed our prep course we are about to make a final application for home study. However my dh is concerned about some of the stories we have heard and as a stay at home dad, needs to be 100% so my question is this...

We do not expect a child to be adopted with no additional social and emotional needs or to not to have to deal with their experiences. Although every child is different and there is no definitive answer, how have your children reacted to being adopted and do any children accompish the sense of belonging in a family without having intense behavioural issues?

We have a child in the family already and feel ok to support attachment difficulties, low self esteem etc (I know there are lots of etc!!!!) but do not want our ds to feel threatened or have his world turned upside down (with long term negative effects). I know a child coming to the family would be younger but biting and scratching or breaking all of his toys etc hurts however old the child is!!

Please don't think I am being niave and expecting things to be easy, I am not and I know it probably sounds awful to even ask but it is just a question that I want to pose to people who are 'in the know' but also not trying to do the initial 'scare everyone off to see who is serious' thing.

Thanks

Speaking as a sibling of an adopted child here. And a very happy one at that- I feel truly privileged to have such a wonderful brother. Though there is no denying that he went through violent and destructive spells for the first 8 years or so. I think a few things helped us to accept it all the easier:

we were all that little bit older (10, 5 and 4 respectively; he was 2 1/2)- so were not too intimidated; when you are already 5, a 2yo even in full meltdown isn't really that scary (though we certainly got bitten)

we were all at quite calm stages of our own development

things were explained to us very clearly; we understood that little brother had been through a rough time and would need a bit of special treatment

our parents stayed quite calm and cheerful and bounced back very quickly after a meltdown

there was never any doubt that this was now our brother and that we all would have to get along- I don't think the idea of letting an adoption go back would ever have occurred to my parents any more than the idea of trying to put a biological child back in the womb; in a way, this was very reassuring

meltdowns only happened intermittently and in between we had good times

I've obviously not been there ut I just can't understand how anyone would have an adoption breakdown. It seems awful that after all of this child's experiences, his/her 'forever family' even say when enough is enough. How is that child ever to trust another set of parents again???

I would not be considering taking a child into my life, or indeed, entering into theirs as a permanent parent if I wasn't 100% committed for life! When I have made comments about adoption breakdowns, I meant that children's services need to consider that they do happen and work towards a correct match to ensure that does not happen!!! That is why we are planning to be reflective as stated earlier on the thread, to be open and honest about what we could and would be able to cope with.

Thank you Cory, it was really good to read a post from the perspective of a sibling. Our son is very calm and a timid boy. He plays fighting and killing but it is only play and he has never actually been agressive in behaviour towards us or other children. He was horrifed one day when a child at his nursery hit him and even phoned me at work to tell me all about it!! Although I don't want him hurt, I do feel that he has had a secure upbringing to help him deal with anything like that and I don't feel he would retaliate in a way that would be any different from any other sibling in the world.

Thanks again everyone

Don't condemn people who have been through disruption Aeschylus. My DD1 had her adoption disrupt before she came to me, and I was on the verge of disruption with her myself at one point. IMO, the two biggest factors are honesty (by SS before placement) and by far, post adoption support. My DD should never have been placed with the first couple. It was an unworkable scenario and the SS department are entirely to blame for that disruption - not the adoptive couple. Her issues should have precluded any match with a man-woman couple, but her issues were ignored at the time. Her behavior (by her own account as she remembers quite a lot) was extreme. Really extreme. I too would have disrupted faced with that in the first few months of placement, in fact I don't think any couple could possible have continued

When she came to me, there was still quite a lot of hidden information, so I had a limited picture of her. But the biggest problem was the lack of support for me. My saving grace was my hugely supportive siblings and best friend, and also DD's school who were supportive and understanding of her needs. Without them I would have gone under. I can honestly say it was pretty much the lowest point in my entire life. Her emotional needs were severe as she had complex PTSD and attachment issues. She dissociated, had meltdowns during which she was capable of destroying quite a lot of our possessions and furniture, she needed and wanted to be in control at all times, and I was frequently covered in bruises and scratches, as an 11/12 year old is very hard to contain once triggered. Her behavior could also be highly inappropriate in other ways. The worst bit was just the how relentlessit was. Day in, day out, same behaviors, no marked improvement. She didn't improve UNTIL serious therapy was in place, and SS have the biggest role to play therefore in preventing disruption, by providing services and referrals, and counselling to parents as well. Commitment is really important of course, but it can only take you so far..traumatised children can and do project their trauma onto the parents, the result is that the parent/s (myself included) get PTSD and depression as well. Thats often the point where disruption happens, when the parents have no support and develop trauma problems themselves. Once a parent develops PTSD/depression, they have no more energy to contiue fighting for support, or parenting therapeutically

I'd love in general to see more support for parents who have been through disruption...there is a lack of understanding

Anyhow, now I've said that, Cory thank you for your post. It was good to hear from a sibling, as it's quite rare to hear from them

I am not sure what you read in my post as 'condemning'.

I said I don't understand and think it is awful for the child to go through another loss and break of trust and don't feel that there is anything wrong with that. I also said that is why it is necessary to be honest and for ss to match correctly (which is what you are saying are you not?). Previously I have said about when adoption does not work and through some responses, it seemed like people thought I was suggesting that I had the attitude, if it doesn't work, just send them back - no one said that but some responses have made me feel that way.

I dont feel that adoption is something to be taken lightly and too many people (that I have spoken to about our plans) think that it is just about offering a child who doesn't have a home, somewhere to live and a loving family and as you all know, it is so much more than that.

I dont judge anyone for any choices that they make whether right or wrong (imo) and understand that everyone has a range of factors that lead them to specific decisions.

For me, I feel that when we make the commitment to adopt, I will be in it 100% and will treat whatever situations arise as such. I wouldn't enter into this if either me or my dh were not fully behind it and ready to support the child to the best of our ability. Thats not to say that we would accept excessively violent behaviour towards my son. My concern before was initial agression and violent behaviours towards DS and these remain, so on this basis, we would not be offering to adopt a child who is already exhibiting these behaviours when matching is taking place. There is a chance they would stop but not one I am prepared to take. On the other hand, I am prepared to chance that the behaviours would come out later as I feel that once the child had joined our family, we could cope with it. If they were extreme we would have to cross that bridge when we came to it but personally I don't think disruption is in the best interests of the child. If it was my ds who was violent towards a new sibling, I wouldn't be sending him back anywhere, although I would still seek some support. I haven't dealt with it so maybe you feel I can't comment - it is just how I feel at the moment.

Clearly this is an emotive subject and maybe I don't always express myself well but I am not judging anyone.

I'm sorry Aeschylus, reading back through I don't think I used the right wording. I tend to get quite emotional talking about disruption. I have heard and read a lot of people say like you 'I just can't understand how anyone would have an adoption breakdown' and read it as 'I would never do that to a child' which upsets me as I've been to that point...it isn't your fault, it's a personal trigger/issue of mine. I am very sorry if I offended you

just to add to my first post: db's meltdowns continued until he was about 10/11 and stopped suddenly after one occasion when he nearly knocked my dad out

which is funny because exactly the same thing happened with my (biological) dd (whose trauma was not due to adoption but to misdiagnosed disability): her meltdowns stopped when she realised she was strong enough to do me a serious injury (bruises and bite marks clearly didn't count)

if that hadn't happened, then obviously things would have been more difficult...

though in all honesty I don't know if they would have been more difficult or indeed different for my mum because her child was adopted; adoption is just one of many traumas that can happen to children and children often react in very similar ways to trauma

as for the adopted sibling' pov - I don't think it was harder for me to deal with db's meltdowns than it was for ds to deal with dd's; we both had to learn to duck quickly

if anything it was more dangerous for ds who was younger than his sister- but noone could have foreseen that situation

I suppose the difference with adoption is that you can, to some extent, foresee certain types of trouble and plan in advance.

I work with 16 year olds, not alot offends me!!!

But, I do find that on forums, as great as they are, sometimes what is actually meant gets lost in an interpretation and certainly meant no offence towards anyone. I truly value everyone's opinion and experiences and part of the reason why I started the thread was to get people's real experiences.

I am sorry for your difficulties Lilka and appreciate you sharing them with us as they help me to make informed and sensible decisions. However, everyone has had such a variation that I'm not sure I am any further forward - apart from some posts having positive outcomes whoch does bring some hope!!!

Also, my saying that we would approach situations as they arise is not to , in any way suggest that I think it would be easy. You have clearly been through a lot and I would never devalue that. As it was said earlier in the thread, we all have things we can and can not take/accept/deal with and I have a range of experiences myself which make me feel that I could deal with difficult behaviour and especially emotional difficulties (though not to say I would do it right!!!!). I myself, although not being adopted have had to deal with emotional abuse and then since 15/16 complete rejection by one parent. This has caused some difficulties and only when married for over 5 years, I felt secure enough to have a child as I was petrified that if my marriage broke down and we had children my dh would reject the child for a new family (please note, it was me being irrational - not anything based on his behaviour). For me, I can't imagine what would make me do that to a child of my own as it has had such an impact on me. Saying that, part of not being able to understand was partially that generally I really didn't do that much wrong as a teenager (well, not much worse than others), there were some difficult times which don't happen to everyone but I felt so insecure, I didn't dare do anything wrong. There are behaviours which I hope would never happen to me and wouldn't wish on anyone else that I don't feel we could cope with but those are the sorts of things everyone would hope their child would never do and if worrying about those stopped people, noone would ever have children!

Anyway, please never take offence to anything I say and I wont take offence to what is replied. It is a hard topic to express easily - as can be seen by all of our very long posts!!!

I know many familes where an adoption has disrupted, as well as those where a child has had to go into residenatil care or hosoital. The main reasons are because a family are unable to keeo the young person, or themselves , Or other children, safe. Or becasue a child /young person needs specialised medical or other care that cannot ( or the authorities are unwillimg to ) be provided in a home setting

Eg multiple suicide atempts, severe psychiatric illness, allegations of abuse, physical or sexual abuse of other family members, assualts with offensive weaspons ( knives, bleach), runnig away, disability requring round teh clock nursing, torturing or kiling of pets or other animals, arson /deliberate fire raising, murder

It woupd be wrong to assume that the parenst of these children and young people are not 100% committed to them.best not to judge until you have been there

Why do you assume that people are judging? Clearly I have stated the exact opposite. Towards the end of my last post I wrote

"There are behaviours which I hope would never happen to me and wouldn't wish on anyone else that I don't feel we could cope with but those are the sorts of things everyone would hope their child would never do and if worrying about those stopped people, noone would ever have children!"

The behaviours you have described would be within this. I am not sure what parents being 'young' have to do with anything and I have not stated that parents of children with these kind of behaviours are any less committed than any other, just that I need to be 100% committed to any child I might adopt. This would suggest that I would be as commited as other parents in the country are of their children biological or adopted. If my bio son had these behaviours I would be no less committed to trying to help him - regardless of what decisions that commitement might involve. Maybe I am not the one judging!!

em, why do you assume that i am addressing you? it was a general comment on the issue of disruption

i didn't say anything about parents being young

you seem very angry

If that was not towards me then I apologise, however the final statement was rather direct and judgemental. Sorry, I also misread and thought you wrote the parents are young people rather than of young people.

I'm not angry and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Our posts are pretty much in agreement but I do feel that it is sometimes misinterpreted when someone states something innocently and then are accused of being judgemental and I do feel that such statements are judgemental themselves (but then maybe now I am misinterpreting!!! The cycle could long continue so please, instead accept this apology!!!!)

Thank you

:)

The kind of disruption listed by Kristina is the kind of disruption that would normally also mean that a biological child had to go into some kind of care- just (presumably) more common in adopted children because of their background. So one wouldn't take it as a sign of lack of commitment in the parents (whether biological or not), at least I certainly wouldn't. Just a recognition that some things need to be dealt with by specialists.

Indeed cory. One of the cases i knowit was a bio child, where there was profound handicap and the child went go a residentail school

I think when the disability is visible then there is more sympathy and understanding for the parenst. Its when you have a child who eg had tried yo stab their mother but is ok behaved at school. Then profesisonals , freinds and family and the community can be very judgemental " oh she seems a lovely girl to me and i hear she is fine at school" etc etc

As you know, the nature of attachment problems means that children can be ok or even good at school or with a therapist or sw but very violent to parenst, especially the mother. Or even worse, ok with everyone except the mother. Ive seen many marriages split up because of this

Well of course it was mary. Probably because you had trouble setting boundaries. Or maybe because of your unresolved infertility issues. Oops no, that pat explanation doesnt work either. Hmmm, let me see, ill check my course notes from that one hour lecture i had during my training twenty years ago that has made me an expert on adoption.......

it's awful with the parent blaming, isn't it?

though ime it also happens with biological children- and again, it is common for a traumatised but not adopted child to act out at home but keep it together outside the home; dd has never so much as spoken rudely to a teacher but I used to have to restrain her

the school, of course, insisted that she had no problems but that I should be seen by Social Services

Looking back I am wondering if it was this fear that meant that my mother never sought any professional help for db.

Which was ok in his case because she was able to handle him and he did grow out of his problems (so presumably not fullblown attachment disorder?), but which might easily not have been all right for another family