Why is it NEVER an adoptive parent or child saying...

[Kewcumber]

..."you should adopt rather than have IVF".

And why does it wind me up?

Discuss.

and you should of course know that I do advocate for adoption where appropriate

In how many words professor ?

oh as many as you like. I find two work pretty well but have discovered that adopters are deemed to be "wonderful" and therefore swearing not acceptable.

Okie dokie....as an adopted child i say you should adopt rather than have IVF.

The difference however in mine and DBs case is that when we were adopted there were babies to be adopted and there just aren't that many any more and people feel unable and unsure about adopting older children who may come to them with problems.

I was six weeks and DB was three weeks old when our parents got us.

We never knew any other parents and had suffered no abuse.

so have you adopted yourself reeling?

I'm interested in why people suggest as a blanket piece of advice (eg wihtout considering the child prospective parents might be approved for or what additional needs they might be able to accept) adoption over birth and why they don't follow that advice themselves.

Everyone has their own line in the sand. For me it was IVF OK - donated eggs not so at that stage I loked at adoption. I know people who chose to adopt rather than go IVF or even people who chose to adopt without even trying to get pregnant.

But how can you say that people should do one certain thing at one particular stage in preference to every other option available to them?

no-one should say that people should do a certain thing.

but I don't think there is anything wrong with asking people if they have considered alternatives.

that said, i've never seen anyone tell another person that they ought to adopt and not have IVF.

It's the same folks who feel adoption is exclusively the realm of the infertile, some sort of consolation prize, if you will.

One of my friends was told that by someone who had managed to conceive their child the first time they tried. It is very, very easy to make those kinds of statement when it's a position you know you're never going to be in yourself.

i have never heard anyone tell anyone else that they should adopt rather than have IVF. in fact i have never heard anyone tell anyone else they should adopt at all.

EXP and i talked about adoption as a possibility before we ever had children, we were thinking years in the future, but as it happened we had an unplanned pregnancy with ds1 and then had ds2 a few years later. i am now on my own and think 3 dcs would be far too much for me right now. i'm not ruling adoption out but just not while right now.

I have been pregnant 3 times. The first 2 were miscarriages and the third was my ds. I have been 'lucky' in that I have always fallen pregnant easily but 'unlucky' in that obviously I couldn't go to full term. However, I do know that I am able to get pregnant and carry a healthy baby to full term (Obviously no 'bragging' about this, just stating my own situation). Anyway, we have decided to adopt and it is exaclty that - a decision. I don't think it's as straight forward as someone 'should' do one thing or another but we do all have experiences and circumstances that lead us to decisions.

How do I know its right for me? I always wanted another baby and got very broody. The other day a colleague brought her baby girl into work and I didn't feel the 'I want one' pull as I genuinely feel that if we get approved to adopt - it will be the final piece to our family (albeit a potentially difficult journey)

I do hear people say "oh just adopt. Why waste money on all those expensive procedures when there's no guaruntee. It's such a waste" or "oh why should I have to pay for other people's IVF on the NHS when they refuse to adopt?" blah blah blah. However, it's not a common opinion, thank goodness!!

It's ridiculous IMO. I would never just say 'oh adopt'. It ain't that easy. If someone were to say 'I'm thinking of adoption' I would guide them and advise them, and I have done that. But I know a lot of adoptive parents, some adoptees and some mothers whos children have been adopted - and none of them would ever say 'just adopt'. That Kew, is why it winds you up!! Because the rare people who say it don't have a clue what they're on about. Ah well, just let it roll off there's nothing else you can do really. You can't fix ignorant so let them talk shit (just taking a break from my 'deemed wonderful' status there Kew, for the sake of it )

Because people say stupid stuff without knowing anything.

I think ivf is a shocking waste of taxpayers money. For ME only. I never had the biological urge and am perfectly happy fostering.

The problem is people think it's ok to generalise their point of view and force it on others. Ie. 'if I think that for me then it must apply to everyone else'.

"i have never heard anyone tell anyone else that they should adopt rather than have IVF. in fact i have never heard anyone tell anyone else they should adopt at all." Really? Blimey you can;t have read many threads on Mumsnet - it comes up everytime fertility treatment is mentioned IME.

Laurie - I don't know anyone who has had IVF on the NHS as its so hard (in the days when I had it virtually impossible) to get funding around here.

No Kewcumber,i didn't adopt.

Mine and DBs adoption was totally sucessful but didn't even think about it myself.

No one can tell someone else what's best for them though.

Maybe we should have thought about it but we didn't plan any of our three DC,they,er,just happened.
But i know i wouldn't have gone the IVF route if i hadn't conceived naturally.

It doesn't wind me up though when people make illadvised statements about what others should do...i ignore it.
I remember an old family friend (who was admittedly a bit thick) saying at the dinner table when she was staying with us that her nephew and his wife were adopting and she thought it was awful because..
''you don't know where the kids have come from''

My Mum and i just looked at each other and laughed,the silly moo had completely forgotten that DB and i were adopted.

yes Laurie and Lilka - the combination of it never being the people who have experience of doing it that generalise and the fact that people have made a hypothetical decision about what is right for them (almost never tested in practice of course ) and have decided it should be visited upon everyone else.

Luckily it's much easier for people here, one of my best friends is on her 3 round.

She's desperate for a baby literally aches for it.

People may suggest adoption to be genuinely helpful, and because they believe it is a wonderful thing to do, as we all know how many unwanted children there are in the world. Many have the opinion that we should look after the ones we have rather than bringing more into the world.

It's just an opinion. I don't think anyone who says it would actually expect their opinion to be taken into account because it is obviously an extremely personal decision and it takes a lot of time, effort and heartache.

My DH works with foster parents and has worked extensively with adoptive parents. I have great respect for people who have the love and commitment to either foster or adopt. I wouldn't honestly recommend it myself as I have heard too much about how tough it is and I don't have it in me.

I have no problem with people suggesting adoption as an option to consider.

"you should adopt rather than have IVF" was a direct quote.

Don't let fools upset you Kewcumber.

They open their mouths just to change feet.

Ignore,ignore,ignore.

because adoptive parents know that, just as the IVF process does not necessarily result in the couple (or woman) becoming parents, nor does the adoption process. We know what an ordeal the homestudy process can be and, if the prospective parents are approved by a panel of strangers there can then be a very long wait to be matched with your child/ren and sometimes that match never takes place. We know that parenting an adopted child is different in some respects to raising your biological children because they have a history that connect them to other people and they will play some part in our lives whether we want them to or not. And we might one day have to watch our children grieve for their loss and perhaps go through a lot of hurt and anger as they try to come to terms with the fact that they were abandonned, neglected or abused by the person who was supposed to protect them.

We also understand, and perhaps empathise, with a woman's desire to be pregnant and give birth to a child who has her genes/looks like her DH/can play the violin like Grandad. She won't ever have to hear people refer to her child's birth mother as her real mother or be viewed as less of a woman/mother by mumsnetters

Having seen the devastation of two friends, one of whom had failed IVF, the other who had an adoption fall through weeks before the expected date, I think they both have their lows. But seeing their joy when IVF worked and when a second adoption went through, they both have their joys.

Crikey - I should have previewed that before I posted as it doesn't make much sense!

bridget yes it does

yes it does make sense bridget

My mum has been known to say this- or at least to say it of people, as in "I can't understand why they don't adopt" (she is not really the type to tell other people what to do to their face).

Though she was someone who adopted despite having no fertility problems (3 biological children already) so would have had no experience of the feelings that come with infertility (and naturally not of IVF).