PhD - should DD be worried?

[Where2start75]

DD is 3 months into a PhD.
She called last night, really worried that her 1st supervisor is going to be overseas for 3 month blocks, probably twice a year. This was not disclosed at interview.
There is a second supervisor in the department. Meetings with the 1st supervisor will continue online but it's not the same as meeting in person (stem subject).
They are due to have a meeting to confirm candidature soon.
DD is unnerved and wants to know that she can walk away even after confirmation of candidature, if she struggle with lack of in-person support.
Her full intention is to work hard and succeed so this is more for peace of mind.
She is research-council funded.
Is anyone able to give any suggestions that might reassure her?
Thank you!

I certainly didn’t usually see my supervisor more often than every three months or so.

It sounds like there is already a clear supervisory plan in place, with agreed meetings and the presence of a second supervisor. I am not sure what more would be expected here. PhD students should be comfortable working independently (with supervisors available for meetings as needed). Perhaps your daughter could ask for short, regular supervisory meetings, rather than infrequent longer ones, so that she feels like the line of communication is open, even if her supervisor is not physically there?

It can be helpful for PhD students to understand a bit more about the working life of their supervisors (which is not always obvious). In addition to PhD supervision, staff are typically running several research projects, teaching and doing admin roles. Periods abroad are also often part of our own career development, and while it’s our responsibility to ensure we keep all the other plates spinning, this isn’t a negative thing and actually generates a lot of benefit for our own students in terms of networks and new opportunities. (I am making the assumption that this overseas travel is work related, but I might be wrong).

Supervisors can also go on leave for many personal reasons. Or they can leave the university altogether. Anything can happen - it would be a serious shame to walk away from doing a funded PhD over something like this. The only thing your daughter can control is her own approach to her PhD. It’s her PhD, not the supervisor’s.

My prof took a 12 month sabbatical during my Ph D although I still saw him when I needed to as we lived fairly close. I only had one supervisor so I had to get on with it.

The previous poster is correct. It would be a crying shame to give up a research council funded doctoral program as that funding is rare a hens teeth nowadays. It was pretty difficult to get (for humanities) in the 90s when I did mine.

Essential qualities are an ability to be self disciplined, resillient and to work for long periods without supervision. If the 1st supervisor is away she may have to rely more upon her second. However the quality of supirvisers does vary tremendously.

I do private tutoritng for postgrad students (mostly international) and some of them scarcely see their supersivers. Perhaps this is an avenue she might explore if she needs practical help with the actual process of writing and organizing the thesis.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll relay them.
I have a STEM PhD myself and my supervisor was in the office nextdoor for the 3 years. Possibly with practical subjects it's different as hands-on troubleshooting is helpful. Equally there would be long periods certainly in years 2 and 3 where active 'help' wasn't needed.
Year 1 is a steep learning curve in terms of practical techniques, and she is only 3 months in, which I think is why this sudden change has been more worrying (and I very much doubt it wasn't known about at the time).
The reason isn't solely work related too. The supervisor does sound decent apart from this.

If your DD is old enough to do PhD, then she’s old enough to sort this out without her mother’s help.

If she is in a lab in STEM, there will probably be other postdocs and PhD students in the lab who provide a lot of the hands on training. And the combination of zoom and teams and instant messaging mean that a supervisor in another time zone can provide just as much support as one in the next office.

Generally in terms of practical support day to day, I would assume that post docs and others in the lab would help. My PhD supervisor was around quite a bit but he wouldn't have been much help in terms of practical support. He spent most of his time teaching, applying for grants etc not in the lab doing experiments.

I have a STEM subject PhD and spent 4 years at a lab bench. The practical troubleshooting & lab training of early PhDs was always done by more experienced group members (senior postdocs, technicians) not the professor who was my formal supervisor. So I wouldn't assume that there's no practical in-person support in the lab during the times the supervisor is away.
My supervisor took a sabbatical for a year and one of the senior postdocs was given responsibility to supervise & support my daily work during that time. The professor provided guidance on scientific direction via email every two weeks. It was completely fine.
Your dd should ask what the day to day arrangements will be and who will be training her in practical terms. Has she been to visit the lab and met the other members of the research group? She will be seeing a lot more of them than the supervisor!

I also did a Stem Ph.D and my main supervisor was never in the lab and was often away. All our meetings were in the office, so I can’t see why virtual meetings won’t be as useful. I gained all my practical help through a highly experienced research assistant and post-docs in the lab/department. My supervisor left for another job in the last 6 months and it didn’t impact at all on my project - we kept in regular phone/email contact.

@Where2start75 one thing that could offer confidence to your dd is the supervisor's track record for graduated PhDs. If they have supervised many to successful completion, I would have zero concerns. If they have never seen a student through to a successful viva, that's something to think about.

She should be far more independent than you describe her. I am often away for research - my research profile is what attracts PhD applicants. Online supervisions plus a second supervisor in person every three months or so (second supervisors generally see candidates 3-4 times a year) is fine.

Your daughter will need to be prepared to face far tougher challenges than this in a PhD.

@Dox9 Good point - she's their first PhD student. The supervisor did theirs under the 2nd supervisor who has 8 successful ones.

Is it still the case that funding is harder to gain in future for an academic if their students don't complete?

To those criticising her lack of independence, that couldn't be further from the truth. After finding out about this big change (essentially 6 months per year remote supervision) she has met with the supervisor, asked sensible questions, and been reassured to an extent by them. She was still feeling unsettled so sensibly phoned to talk it through with me.
And where would I find a bunch of current academics to ask? Certainly not in my phone book (although 2 grandparents were academics but were based in their home university so available to students - although pre-teams/Skype etc anyway) and it occured to me this board could be helpful.

I know this is unnerving, but I agree with everyone else.

My supervisor was away for 6 mos during my crucial second year, and back then our only means of communication were email and snail mail. But my informal second supervisor and my supervisor’s lead postdoc did a great job.

With the ability to meet online so easily nowadays, I really don’t see a problem. I do think DD is within her rights to request a reasonable schedule of online meetings, if that would help her. Personally I would probably play it by ear, preferring to meet when I had progress to report, significant questions or issues warranting supervisor input, etc.

I'm not in stem but I do most of my PhD supervisions online. My advice for her would be to get some help with the practical work from people in the same lab i.e. bring in donuts etc in exchange for some peer mentoring on the practicalities.

Doesn't sound like a problem at all. Loads of students have international supervisors. She will just have to be proactive about planning video calls if the supervisor isn't. She might actually get more supervision if it's formally planned!

Is she getting on ok otherwise? This is such a non-deal, I'd be worried that there's something else going on.

If you flip it around, you could argue that your DD has a first supervisor who is on site 6 months of the year. She also has a second - far more experienced - supervisor who is around all the time. That could be an absolute win, because she can legitimately have more contact with the more experienced scientist, while still benefitting from the relationship with the first supervisor who will have time for her because she's the first PhD student.

@Monsterslam doughnuts noted 🙂

@Paaseitjes I think all ok (but understand where you are coming from). She's well set up in terms of work ethic due to the route that has got her here in the first place. She'll be home over Easter for us to chat face to face.

I'm reassured the overwhelming consensus is that it's a non issue.

Thanks all.

I’m an experienced PhD supervisor and would expect to have several meetings a month with most students in their first year, but these are often online as either the student or a member of the supervisory team is not on campus. I would just check that they are planning to carry on supervision meetings from abroad.

Professor in STEM here, I think it would be fine if there is a regular schedule of on line meetings.
After the first few months she should be up to speed with whatever instrumentation use is required. When I have been away I make sure senior members of my team will be there if needed for newer members. Is there some sort of research group structure?
I don’t think it is given that if a student doesn’t complete it would affect future studentships awarded to that professor

At our place you need some first supervision completions for promotion so the first supervisor will be keen to help your DD through as much as possible

I don't see the problem with asking around for views. The woman is hardly going to drag Mum into her department 🙄

At my uni we have one semester sabbatical every 3.5 years. If we apply for a grant/fellowship we can get extra sabbaticals or buyout. Our only obligation on sabbatical, other than doing our own research, is to continue supervising our PhD students - but then many people will be spending their sabbaticals away from campus (it might be a necessity if they need to access certain archives or primary sources) so supervisions will often be online, or the second supervisor will temporarily play a more substantial role. (Nowadays, I would say the former is more common than the latter, as Zoom and Teams are more normalized). This is to say that, with the average duration of a PhD being between 3 and 4 years, most students at least at my place will face at least one supervisor sabbatical during their studies, so what you describe is not at all unusual and I would imagine the department or research group has mechanisms to deal with this.

My son is in a similar situation finishing his STEM PhD -this is to be expected and you definitely want a supervisor who is plugged into the wider research than just time-serving sitting in his office permanently.
Surely she knows this is not school?

Think your DD sounds quite dramatic tbh, it’s fine to have supervisions online!