Career move... what would you do?

[FromthefireintoWhat]

NC for this...

I’m currently at a crossroads in my academic career and would appreciate some candid feedback from those who have faced similar dilemmas.

I have a solid leadership position at my current university, where I’m deeply embedded in multiple ongoing projects and have both internal and external leadership roles (including one with government and another professional society leadership role). Things are going well professionally and I have built strong networks here. I'm not from the UK, but been here for decades. i love the place, but it has changed so much and i m not sure i want to retire here. My uni is financially ok, well recognised, and quite good to me (low teaching, supportive enough) but the role is saddling me with so much admin, legal, finance crap that i'm finding it depressing - doing lab-based research is now so difficult. culture-wise, we talk the talk, but that s it: unaddressed bullying and harassment in my unit, weak leadership not dealing with it - i don t think we re worst than anywhere else, but i ve been here for so long... all in all, it s good, but the prospect of another 20yrs of this is sobbering.

Hence... I’ve kept my eyes on opportunities and been offered interviews for two roles: a leadership job at a university in Europe (not my country of origin), which promises a more strategic focus, better resources, less administrative burden, good research opportunities and stronger links to international hubs I care about. Another leadership role at a university elsewhere in the UK (which i was headhunted for, and would not have initially considered - due to the language they used in their advert) with a great investment promise in my field, but less differentiation from my current place. The job is high visibility and could be a lot of strategic fun, but limited research time and not somewhere i d want to move family, or retire (even less than where we are now).

Family-wise, DH is British and has a stable job here (the uni abroad has a spouse relocation package). We have DC13 and DC17, and the older one will go to university in two years anyway. Both DC and I hold dual citizenship.

what would you do? Stay put where things are going well enough but with the risk of limited further strategic mobility (saying this, i m on track for senior management role at uni level) or move to Europe for the broader vision and better work-life balance but possibly disrupt family stability? Or take a role elsewhere in the UK and keep things familiar but maybe less transformative?

both interview requests landed yesterday, at a point when my head is about to implode with insane workload, and i feel like i m going into hibernation mode. I cannot think and just want to press pause and just do... nothing.

Firstly, I would go to the interviews and see what the jobs are actually like. They may look good on paper, but the reality may be completely different.

My thoughts about the two jobs are that is it worth moving within the UK if you intend to move out at some point? If you’re going to create upheaval for your children perhaps having a completely different experience might be more worthwhile. have you spoken to them about how they would feel about moving abroad?

You may be high enough in the management structure that you are protected from a lot of the issues that are facing your younger colleagues, but the UK university sector is not doing well.

I would be tempted to go somewhere where I would get more Research time (but then I love Research) less admin and less teaching. Also quite potentially where there is a different culture amongst the students, as I feel students in the UK are well aware that they are money making machines for universities, and not always the end point of what the university is supposed to be delivering.

yes, toyally agree with your assessment of the UK system. I am fairly well insulated because of my research funding, but also aware that a lot of it was luck-based and that in 3 to 5yrs time i might have £0 and a very empty lab.

I also saw this year a massive change in the quality of engagement in the classroom - i love teaching and get to teach usually super young people who have a passuin for our topic. This year, there was no passion in the room, some anger from some students, and a lot of confused faces - not sure how we tweaked our recruitment, but not fun.

DCs do not love the idea of a move. They are homebodies who love our region of the UK, and strongly identify as british. But they know a move is on the cards, i was headhunted to a role in europe before covid and it only fell through when we could not actually "move" (sell, buy, rent, sort schools etc). i m also aware that i moved countries when i was not much older than DC1, and that resteicting where we are based on DCs may not be super smart.

If your dc are thinking of uni in the UK - they may need to have been resident for a period (used to be 3 years) to claim home fees. Just check the current regulations as it has been nearly a decade since I last considered this as after Brexit they may be still be classed as international students if they have been out of the UK for too long. This was the main reason I didn't take an overseas post (Asia) - international fees for dc were too high.

DC1 would be fine if it was their choice to go to a UK uni, especiallyif we do nit relocate immediately, DC2 would need to go to school over there, in the new country, and i guess may not, as a result, be as set on the UK as DC1 currently is.

Given the current state of university finances, I’d be mindful of employment law if considering a move. First two years in a new job in the U.K. you’d be much less protected than in your current job so if there is a round of cuts you might be more vulnerable.

With the ages of your kids, in your shoes I’d stay put for just now then think again when they’re both settled at uni/working.

Thank you for these perspectives. Deep down, i am worried that kids will settle here in the UK (uni, job), and so will we, and will never ever move.

Thinking about it, the UK job has very few advantages above my current job. I don t even need/want a bargaining chip. The EU job remains attractive, both academically and on the personal front, but only if the DCs were able to embrace it. And this, i do not know. I could take DC2 with me, and DH could stay here until DC1 completes A levels.

my issue is that i cannot go into an interview without having deeply reflected on the personal side of things. I don't want to gaslight them or waste their time.

Doing the interviews hardly entails making commitments, OP. Interviews are mutual explorations. Either party can decide not to proceed for any reason. I see nothing unethical here and, dare I say it, a man certainly would not.

I am not sure I would pursue a move within the UK, but in your shoes I would be more than willing to do the other interview.

The timing is not great for your DC, but if the position is very attractive your family and your new employer may come up with some good solutions. My extended family has coped with similar situations.

Even if you decide to stay put for now (or aren’t offered the job), in a few years you may feel differently and be glad to have had the experience of interviewing under your belt.

true - although i do know the wider team interviewing, our discipline is a tight small enough community.

I m not desperate for interview experience, i ve done a few recently ish, for the job i could not take in the end (4 rounds, walking away was so awkward) and my other current position (3 rounds).

i ll still move forward and attend the interview for the job in EU, but i dread the personal implications, a lot more than the professional ones.

The implications for your family? Or for collegial relationships if you turn down the post?

The first may genuinely be tricky. I don’t think the second is.

the second is dead awkward based on my previous experience, but certainly less painful (i guess) than messing up with kids feeling settled and doing well in whatever they choose.

I think people are quite used to unsuccessful recruiting attempts, OP. Again, we worry about this kind of thing much more than men do. It holds us back.

Men know how to sound enthusiastic without overpromising or being unethical. It is a fine line.

Would your dc2 know the language of the new country? Would they go to a school that does British qualifications, or a local one? If local, do they have enough background of studying the subjects on offer there to fulfil their potential? I do think at 13, you risk making them very unhappy and they might run back to UK at the first opportunity. Where would your eldest go to in university holidays too?

I would be asking very different questions if your children were enthusiastic about going abroad by the way.

DC2 would not know the local language - they d have to learn it - i d be looking for international schools or equivalent. At uni level, the country run some degrees fully in english.

@FromthefireintoWhat please can I ask what you decided in the end? Hope it’s working out okay.