Would this piss you off?

[KissLorraine]

I've been working with a potential PhD student for a few months on her funding application. I was down as second supervisor with another colleague form my dept.

I've met her once, read and commented on proposal drafts.

She emailed me a couple of days back to say she feels she'd have a better chance at funding success with an interdisciplinary team and so is using someone else as second supervisor.

I'm pretty nonplussed TBH. But I told a colleague who said I should be livid, and advised me to reply and give her a bit of bollocking about professionalism etc.

I'm not going to but I was surprised at the strength of my colleague's feeling that I should be mightily pissed off.

What do you think?

I'm in social sciences. I'm an associate Professor almost ready for professor promotion.

I don’t understand the problem. She’s got to follow the funding or she will have no PhD research for anyone to supervise. 🤷‍♀️ Why actively make a drama out of something you weren’t originally worked up about?

Yes, she's been unprofessional. I'd be angry as well.

I think a measured and very cool email saying that you understand that she feels she has to follow the money, but that there are professional ways of doing this, and that she should realise that she has used your time, energy & knowledge in an unprofessional & exploitative way. Let her know - in the form of "friendly advice" that she should be aware that this sort of behaviour is not acceptable as she develops her career, as she will develop a reputation for using people. Adopt very high status and tell her all this as friendly advice. Don't give away how angry you are. I think sometimes PhD students can be arrogant twats who think they know more than academics ...

This has happened to me a couple of times with post-doctoral applications. Those people have their cards marked. I'm senior enough in my field for that to make a difference in certain circumstances.

I now am very clear that I'll work with applicants on PhD or post-doc proposals, but only if they understand that if they decide to go elsewhere they must be open with me about that. And at that point I won't do any more work with them until they decide where they'll eventually apply. But some people are shameless - even after I told a post-doc this, they used my colleagues & my time, and still went elsewhere, and didn't realise how badly they'd behaved.

But the potential first supervisor should have been doing the bulk of the work, so next time, let the first supervisor do the grunt.

Yes, there is the "excuse" that times are tough & they have to follow the money, but there are professional frank open & honest ways of doing that, and then there's the behaviour you describe. Tough times are not an excuse for exploiting people.

Have had this happen several times. The issue is that on one level, I get it. On the other level, there needs to be a recognition that when helping a potential PHD student and / or postdoc applicant develop a proposal and go through an application process, there are often hours of investment in feedback, meetings etc that the academic puts in - none of which are really workloaded. These days, I am also clear that if an applicant is developing a proposal, I want them to disclose if they are also going to others with the same proposal. I have had the situation - twice - where I help an applicant develop a proposal, and then they take that proposal to another university.

Small aside: this year I met one of those applicants. I helped her develop her PhD proposal, she then went to another university. Two years go by. I run into her at a conference. She acted like she didn't know me and told me what she was working on (with me thinking 'yes I know - I read and re-read your research proposal and commented on it!!').

Exactly @NearlyAlwaysInsane

I worry that there’s a generation of PhD students who are so entitled, that they don’t realise how unprofessional they’re being.

Well it's hardly professional to give someone a bollocking, is it? I'd be ignoring that advice.

I think it was a mistake to invest so much time as second supervisor, I might give a quick read and email but would expect most of that work to be done by the first supervisor.

Because of that I would not be overly disturbed by their decision, they're just being strategic, as they should be. I mean, if they stuck with you to be polite and didn't get the funding, your time would have been equally pointless right? At least this way they may be successful and bring something exciting to your department.

I think one could email someone who's behaved like this, and simply point out that after spending so much time on developing the proposal with the applicant, it is unprofessional simply to use that work (ie @KissLorraine 's) with someone else. It doesn't need to be a bollocking - just advice that in the future, they should be more frank and honest with those assisting them.

Thanks everyone, really great to hear different perspectives.