Allocating female students to the only female supervisors!!??

[Floofle]

Please help me articulate what's wrong with this...

I am a relatively new member of female teaching staff in a very male dominated area, and in an email about allocating supervisors to the new students, there were a number of guidelines.

Some were quite sensible things such as "please try to distribute students across supervisors", but it also said:
"Please try to allocate female students to Annie and Sarah" (names changed)

I am "sarah", and basically we are the only 2 female supervisors. Out of about 10 on the list...

This is awful right??? How do I say this? The person sending the email is quite senior to me but I am now acting Programme lead on the MSc as someone else is off on long term ill...

What’s the course?

for extra context - the students are also 90% male

I won't say as it's pretty identifying sorry

Will you end up with a disproportionate number of students as a consequence?

Why is it so bad?

I don’t see how. I feel we need context.

no, we seem to have a reasonable number. Mine are mostly male as I basically have all the new MScs, but the other Female staff member has all the new female undergrads as far as I can see

this course is one of 2 in the country, so I would basically be saying where I live and work.

How do you know they haven’t requested a female supervisor?

I feel like there could be rationale for it is what I’m saying. I’m wondering why it matters so much to you?

Does it seem to you like they want to sort of silo off the female minority? Or is it more that they’ve some experience indicating the young women students will be more comfortable in groups with other women?

this is on the guidance to staff, obviously if a female student requested a female supervisor that's fine, I just feel like it's really bad to make it the default

It feels like segregation to me??

Why does it matter?

I don't know, it just really bothers me!

Do you think it doesn't?

If it said "please allocate Black students to [black supervisor]" that would be a problem wouldn't it?

I understand where you are coming from. It shouldn’t be assumed that because one is female, they should be allocated to a female member of staff. But this for me is just where I feel we need more info about the course.

Yes, it is awful. I am responsible for allocating students to supervisors in a university and I wouldn’t do this. It’s unfair on the students and on the women faculty members. Instead, I make sure that the students know all about the resources available to them if they need to talk to someone other than their supervisor, for whatever reason.

Is it something engineering related? That’s my guess.

I’d think about why they have suggested this set up. Is it for the students’ benefit? If so, then I think it’s fine. Could they feel female students would benefit from a mentor who has been successful in a male dominated field? Someone inspirational who could offer perceptive insights from a female perspective? Might there have been issues with female students feeling a bit ‘male-d out’ with the ratio of male/female students and staff? Is it designed to provide a safe space for female students to ensure they feel their opinions and views are heard?

Or is it because Dr Dave can’t stop making sexist comments and Dr Phil can’t keep his hands to himself and both are at risk of being fired if another complaint is made? In which case, that’s not ok as the decision wasn’t made with students’ best interests at heart.

it's a science/engineering course, newish university in a big city.

I'm supervising some MSc students, but there are also Undergrads in the same subject.

Let's say Chemical Engineering!

I think it's probably been done with good intentions, to make them feel less alone!

Although mostly male, my experience has been very positive with the other staff - they are very welcoming and helpful and kind and tolerant etc! No wandering hands or inappropriate jokes!

I wouldn't like this either OP. Students shouldn't be allocated to a supervisor based on sex rather than expertise/specialism - bloody hell! So the men aren't supervising ANY female students?! How does that champion diversity and break up the boys club?! Seems to me that it just entrenches it. Like the men can't be bothered or can't be trusted... In both cases the answer isn't this.

Enabling access to senior women when there's a pastoral element that they are uncomfortable addressing with a male supervisor or specific requests for a female supervisor is totally different. This doesn't sound like that at all.

I’m not an academic but my dd is an engineer and I’m a scientist so I’ve some idea about male dominated fields.
Id suggest you and your female colleague ask what the thinking is, and explain your concern that it seems like segregation. The male staff may think they’re being considerate but it may not be a good thing - after all, these young women will hopefully be employed in this field and have to deal with being a small minority there too.
It is, however, perhaps reasonable for the female students to be allowed to express a preference for a female supervisor and also all-female tutorial groups.

yeah thanks, I also did a very male dominated subject as undergrad so it's something I've thought a lot about!

All-female tutorial groups probably wouldn't be an option as our student numbers are pretty small... I think our total undergrad intake is around 50 students but there are 4 different course varieties within that and probably under 10 women.

I have actually never met the other female supervisor, maybe I should chat to her! we do quite different things (well as different as possible in the same department!)

It does bother me that most of the male supervisors don't have any female supervisees...

It would bother me that the male supervisees are less likely to have female supervisors too. Though I can see why there are lots of good reasons a female supervisor might be a plus for a woman on a v male dominated course, like you’ve pointed out it’s not all positive. I’d ask about their thinking behind the guidance. A better approach might be to separately offer female students the option of a loose mentor connection to female supervisors in case needed or wanted?

My department had a very detailed long-view statistical analysis done on sex and all aspects of academic achievement. It was particularly notable that the achievement gaps between male and female students almost completely disappeared when students were taking modules led and taught primarily by female staff. When modules were overwhelmingly lectured and taught by men, those modules had the largest gaps between male and female achievement.

Whether this was because women were more likely to choose the modules led by female staff, or whether seeing women in the position of lecturer/teacher/academic authority had a positive effect on attainment, or whether female students felt more motivated or supported by having female tutors, or all three (or something else!) we don’t know! But the effect was very noticeable in younger female state school students in particular.

So while I can sympathise with you feeling surprised by it, I can also see that on a practical level it may actually be a help to the students — particularly, if it’s a very male-dominated field, in providing contact with and role models of female staff who they can feel are “like them” or who demonstrate the possibility of female success in the field.

At the moment my students seem to prize “relatability” and “representation” over the kind of ideas about diversity that we grew up with. That means that they actively ask to be taught by people they feel comfortable with as being “like them”, and want to be taught by people who resemble them (in terms of sex, race, class etc.). It might well be something that your student union are actively requesting, even. In any case, I don’t see it as particularly problematic if your subject really is very male dominated both at staff and student level.