What would you think if a student emailed you about this...

[HippyKayYay]

I'm a (very) mature student on a STEM MSc. One of the lecturers keeps on referring to us (as in the students on a particular MSc programme) as 'the Tik-Tok generation'. This is in reference to a particular assignment, that assumes we know how to make videos because we're of said generation.

It pisses me off. Firstly I'm not of that generation (in fact, I'm older than the lecturer). But also because it's just generally ageist and not ok to assume a group of people are of any identity (i.e. not ok to refer to us as if we were all men, all white, all whatever). I also have a sub-irk that this generalisation is allowing them to assume that we have particular skills (making audiovisual media) that is not related to the degree programme, not an entry requirement, and isn't something they're 'teaching' us. Yet they are assessing us on it. But that really is a sub-irk because I do know how to make a basic video.

Anyway - how would you feel if you were said lecturer and you got an email from me asking you not to refer to us as the 'Tik Tok generation', nor to make any generalised assumptions about the group based on characteristic that are protected by the equality act? I don't want to be that student... And in all other ways this lecturer is a nice person!

I'm not the only 'mature' student, btw, although I am definitely the oldest (by probably at least a decade, if not more) on my course... But I'm probably not the only one who doesn't feel like they're of the 'tik tok generation'

I think there are diminishing returns from trying to make people fix all their minor flaws, if I'm honest. To be able to think, that's not the way I'd do / put that, and then move on with your life is a useful skill. And then address actual problems when there are actual problems.

I manage a group of academics. Often, something goes wrong. We sort it out. But we still get lots of people wanting to tell us how the issue isn't actually a problem for them and never was, and it's resolved, but they still think we should know ...

It's good to step back and think, come on. Am I paying to be taught by automatons? Do I want that? Don't be officious. Think of the human.

^^This. Your lecturer probably assumes that as a mature student you’re mature enough to not be irked by a few comments directed at the bulk of the student body.

I’m a lecturer and if I got a complaint from a student about this kind of thing, I’d assume you were going to be the kind of student who has a thin skin and is always complaining about something, and I’d be very much on my guard. It definitely would not make me feel warm or especially helpful.

I'm afraid I'd roll my eyes and think you were someone who just had to find something to complain about.

Yes. Students are asked to record videos to apply for graduate jobs now. Making them is part of lots of people's work (including academics')

It is anxiety your son needs to work on or declare here. Alternative assessments are often available. He may need an ISP, or depending on severity, he may benefit from working through this. It's a very legitimate and sensible form of assessment (and there is no form of assessment that doesn't cause some students anxiety).

I agree about raising through course reps. I think you have two points here:

A) not to forget about mature students and make them feel included
B) they should be supporting everyone to be able to do the video making part of the assessment

Both valid to raise, but if you do so directly in this way: 'nor to make any generalised assumptions about the group based on characteristic that are protected by the equality act?' you will just put people's backs up.

nor to make any generalised assumptions about the group based on characteristic that are protected by the equality act?

I definitely wouldn't bring that up, like you're threatening getting litigious over a jokey Tik Tok generation comment. Save that kind of equality issue for things that really matter, which isn't this. You even say you know how to make videos so there's really no issue apart from some sub-irks that you could easily brush over, being mature and knowing people have their quirks and it doesn't hurt you. If I got such an email, I'd think you were 'that' student because you would be.

I think it’s my post wrt my son you’re referencing here and that’s helpful to know about alternative assessments thank you. He has high functioning autism and although confident and personable in talking to people, can stand up and do presentations etc, making a video is something he really struggles with. Hes already tried applying for casual jobs via recorded question responses and it was difficult and unsuccessful.

I think my issue with the generalisation the lecturer makes is the assumption that if you’re of this generation you’ll love making a video for an assessment and find it easy - when in fact it’s horses for courses. Some will indeed thrive on that, others would rather make a poster, others write an essay, others sit an exam. As long as there is variety in assessment and it’s flagged up ahead of the course then the bits you don’t like you have to suck up, as there is a balance.

But the assumption that one group will find a method easy shouldn’t be made. They wouldn’t say “sorry Gen Z this one’s an essay and you don’t have the concentration skills for that but hey all you mature students will find it a breeze” would they.

An email is a bit formal for something so minor and it really is minor.

You are also taking it too literally. Half the people in the room won’t use tikok. The lecturer knows that and they know that.

When I was a young student there were lots of skills I didn’t have. Loads of the mature students on my course had come from a manufacturing background so knew far more than me. I had to go and ask the technicians, lecturers or other students to help me if I didn’t know how to use any of the machinery or design software.

I think raising this would make you that student, especially if you know how to make a basic video so aren't actually disadvantaged by it. Just because you have a point of principle doesn't mean it needs to be shared. Is there an opportunity for you to provide feedback at the end of a semester/academic year? That could be a good time to raise it.

not to forget about mature students and make them feel included

Sorry, but this to me is key to this - and why I would raise it (in a low-key nice way). We talk A LOT about inclusion (rightly) and not making someone feel self-conscious or out of place by accident is part of that.

The lecturer is there to teach, not to “make everyone feel included”. It’s not primary school. A “mature” student ought to be able to cope with that!

I have to say that raising something as minor and insignificant as this even in “a low-key nice way” would make someone look like, as others have said, “that student”. If OP wants help and support from her lecturer, she won’t go about getting it, or getting the best out of the course, by complaining about things like this.

Gosh, the responses to this are interesting! Congratulations to everyone who didn't read my actual post (I do know how to make a basic video! That's not the point). It's also not about being offended. I'm not offended. I just don't think it's ok to assign a group an identity based on the majority characteristic or to make assumptions... Inclusivity is important and barriers to it are often invidious like this. It's about the principle, rather than the specifics of Tik Tok, or whatever.

Also interesting that people don't think age is as important a protected characteristic as the more 'headline' ones... If they were saying 'oh, you all know what it's like to do X because you're white/ men/ able-bodied', I bet your responses would be different.

Sorry - this is just plain wrong. Inclusivity is really important and is something that is very much prioritised in HE delivery now. For the good. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that history was the history of 'great white men', before people acknolwedged that, hey, turns out that there are some significant women/ black people/ non-white-men in the history of literature/ art/ science/ whatever.

This is incredibly important if we want to diversify sectors as role models are a significant factor in people being able to 'see themselves' in a certain role. There's shit loads of research on this.

Thank you. This is how I feel. It's not about complaining (as I said, he seems like a nice guy). It's about pointing out the 'everyday ageism' (or whatever) that can inadvertently make people feel excluded.

We just don’t think making a comment about TikTok is “assigning a group an identity”. Or that it’s legitimate to make a random harmless remark into an issue about “protected characteristics”.

Why would you want to make your relationship with a lecturer (who you might want later to contract for helpful feedback or even ab academic reference), into an officious, difficult, complaining one?

I’m a lecturer in HE, and inclusion is not remotely about students getting to police random harmless remarks and call them “ageist”. Are you seriously suggesting that it’s discrimination? Because that makes a bit of a mockery of actual discrimination.

But is is assigning a group an identity. Saying 'because you're the Tik Tok generation' = 'because you are all below a certain age'. But we're not all a certain age. Would it be ok if he'd said 'because you are all white men' (when we're not)? If not, what's the difference?

I didn't use the word discrimination

If he'd said 'because you're all white men' would that be ok? If not, why is it ok to say 'becuase you're all under the age of 30'?

Are you sincerely arguing that that remark is genuine discrimination?

No, I'm not.

Completely agree you should address this @HippyKayYay but, as with most workplace issues, I’d try and do it face-to-face first. Perhaps a chat after a lecture, or asking for a private discussion. He may not be aware he’s doing it and might be a good learning opportunity for him.
If he’s defensive or doesn’t respond well then email detailing your chat would be the 1st step in a paper trail. Doing it in writing straight off risks him seeing it as more official from the start - unless you’re a wholly remote course.

Have you thought that you may have considered the ages in the room more than anyone else? And formed opinions on age yourself.

Yes because it is different. The Tik Tok generation line is a jokey bit of nothing. It's not the same at all. Calling this out as ageism minimises genuine ageism and will just lead to lecturers walking on eggshells and giving up trying to inject a bit of life into things.

I wouldn't care about the 'TikTok generation' thing, though it doesn't mean they have those skills - while kids may watch TikTok I don't know any who make videos themselves.
But I would care if they marked us on a media that had nothing to do with the course and required a certain skill level. My DD is 19 and can make videos but not of the TikTok variety (she animates). But one class has asked them to produce a poster - she has experience with this so a cake walk for her, but I can see how others might struggle, and even she thinks it's not a good idea as not really related to the course. I don't know how much it's being marked.
If I was a professor I'd be more inclined to reconsider the assignment if it was pointed out that not many had video skills. The TikTok thing is just lazy generalisation. Can you ask fellow students how they feel about it?

If saying something like 'hey, less of the Tik-Tok Generation - you're making me feel even older than I am - some of us were born in the 80s' or whatever after a tutorial is going to mark someone out as difficult, complaining and potentially unworthy of a reference, then I don't think the thin-skinned person is the one making the comment.